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Shadowfox
How many of you use battle maps, and/or how common is it among Shadowrun players? I've played 3.5 dnd and many times we wouldn't use a map and it made it more fun to visualise more than use a map. When I've played 4th edition DND, I hasn't felt the same to me, almost as if I'm just playing a weird chess game with magic and swords.

I'm just wondering if anyone doesn't use maps, and how it works for you?
Muspellsheimr
We always use a map, usually hex-grid, for combat, & occasionally other mapping. It makes it significantly easier to work out positions, movement, line of sight, etc, & I will not ever play in a game without some kind of visual representation again.
Maelstrome
we used a map once, but it slowed the gamed down a bit to set up the "stages" and move the figures around. i dont use maps unless i feel its necessary to get a point across. we prefer to visualize the area and the events.
NetWraith
We use a map(it's actually a table with the grid drawn on then clear coat on that) it works well for tactical combats
The Jake
Whiteboard, whiteboard markers and magnets ftw.

This means the GM keeps the full map behind the screen but draws up the main one for everyone on the whiteboard.

- J.
vollmond
We've been using Maptools. My group all has their laptops out most of the time anyway, makes it easy to visualize combat. We usually don't bother outside of combat.
Hagga
Our GM just describes most of the scenes we enter with brief detail, painting an excellent picture. We then keep little maps in our heads, as does he. Works really well; bugger paper.
Rasumichin
I have always used at least simple pencil sketches to get the basic layout of the battlefield and combatants' positions across.
It makes things that much easier, i cannot stress this enough.

To give an example, i'm currently playing in a pbp game where the GM doesn't use a map.
Right now, we're in the middle of a fight involving...i don't know, several dozen combatants (including chicken and a traditional Indonesian gamelan orchestra both posessed by shadow spirits), with the fight taking place in an entire village surrounded by jungle and there's smoke grenades and area effect spells and spirits and a ceremony to cause the end of all of Jakarta and whatnot.
My character is starting to levitate in the next round of combat and has three flight-capable spirits as backup, i want to call in suppression fire, there's broken gongs and xylophones all over the place, wood splinters flying around everywhere, hit-and-run tactics, hideouts, cultists trying to escape, a small group of adepts supporting our team...it's complicated.
If i would have to GM that fight without a map, i'd rapidly go insane.

What does that teach us?
Any serious conflict can get such a mess so quickly that you spare yourself tons of trouble if you map things out.
It also encourages the players to act more tactical, using the terrain to their advantage instead of just declaring that they'll shoot something and start rolling dice.
The Jake
QUOTE (Hagga @ Jan 4 2009, 01:39 AM) *
Our GM just describes most of the scenes we enter with brief detail, painting an excellent picture. We then keep little maps in our heads, as does he. Works really well; bugger paper.


This eventually ends in frustration. I've tried this for years. Sooner or later, players will have a disparate picture of what is going on vs. what the GM is thinking. While I shun the use of minatures, sometimes a bloody map is required.

- J.
Ruin-Gar
My group and I would like to use a mat and minis, but we can never find any good Shadowrun minis. We're not fans of the metal ones we've seen, and Star Wars minis kinda don't feel right.
Caine Hazen
QUOTE
This eventually ends in frustration. I've tried this for years. Sooner or later, players will have a disparate picture of what is going on vs. what the GM is thinking. While I shun the use of miniatures, sometimes a bloody map is required.

I agree completely with this. We use paper maps for some thing and minis when I host at my place.
QUOTE ( @ Jan 3 2009, 10:29 PM) *
My group and I would like to use a mat and minis, but we can never find any good Shadowrun minis. We're not fans of the metal ones we've seen, and Star Wars minis kinda don't feel right.

do a search on this, there have been many many good suggestions on this board that I have used to cobble together a SR minis collection.
TheOOB
I have a chessex dry-erase map is bought for D&D I also use for shadowrun, though I rarely care about exact distance. In shadowrun relative potion is more important then exact position.
shadowfire
As far as shadowrun goes, i would only do it if there was a large battle scene in a semi-open area like a large warehouse or docks.
wind_in_the_stones
We use a big whiteboard. "Map not to scale."

No matter how well you describe the scene, once the action starts, someone loses track of where things are happening. It doesn't matter who, or how bad a mistake it was, it just sucks.
Cain
I don't recommend using a battle mat for Shadowrun. The system just isn't built for it. If you really try to apply the movement rules on a mat as per RAW, it can only end in tears.
Fuchs
QUOTE (Maelstrome @ Jan 4 2009, 01:41 AM) *
we used a map once, but it slowed the gamed down a bit to set up the "stages" and move the figures around. I dont use maps unless i feel its necessary to get a point across. we prefer to visualize the area and the events.


Same. Usually, I sketch something down quickly, if needed, but we do not use battlemaps/miniatures, not in SR4, not in D&D3. Using those grids makes me feel more like I am playing a boardgame - including the switch to tactics optimised for a game. Also, and especially in games where we don't have a TacNet and overhead drones unhampered by counter measures or terrain, I feel that the map removes the chaotic feeling most combats have, turning it into a chess match.
Prime Mover
Crude drawings on a roll out battle mat and dry erase markers. Back in 1st and 2nd edition it was clear plastic over graph paper and a grease pencil....messy.
Pendaric
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends on what works best.
Lilt
We usually use maps of some sort. I did buy a wipe-clean hex map at one point, and used that for a bit, but recently we've just use scribbles on paper. Also, we were never that bothered with miniatures. Although some people did buy them for their characters, often we just used dice or glass beads.
Wesley Street
I create scene layouts in Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop (you can see some examples in the Community Projects folder) and display them on a wall using a digital projector. I use little character, drone and vehicle icons, that I've placed on different Photoshop layers, and move them about according to the players' directions. It's worked very well.

I originally made some "Cardboard Heroes"-style pieces from scans I made from various SR sourcebooks and a wet-erase map. But that limited the size of battleground that I could run.
Cang
It's all about "blueprints" drawn on notebook paper and our imaginations. *enter rainbow*
BIG BAD BEESTE
Always used sketch maps and continue to do so. Just so that everyone can see the layout of the battlefield/encounter and correlate their character's actions. Sometimes I even drag out the old DMZ set and use those maps. I often use the cardboard cut-out miniatures from the 1st Ed GM screen and DMZ to represent the locations of PC's & NPCs as this eventually saves on squiggles and blobs drawn all over the place and thus confusing the map's details. Scale is a matter of each particular encounter though. As long as the positions of the N/PCs and their movement is recorded in relation to the environment, that's all that matters.

However, I do often run small encounters without maps if its only one to five participants and the description of the scene is certified with all of the players. Occassionally i d have to add a quick sketch to elborate or clarify certain details - but usually only because a player brings up a tactical query that needs it defined. (Most often this is for area effect spells and weapons to work out who has been caught in the blast radius).
Aiolos Turin
Id like to show everyone what all I've down with Shadowrun.

I play solely with my nephew, as it's often difficult to get my friend involved, my older brother is in Iowa and thus cant play except rarely, and my oldest brother is just now being introduced and might play with us.
All in all though, me and my nephew have created one heck of a world from scratch, and although I'm primarily gamemaster, we do have a unique way of playing. Perhaps that can be in another thread. For now, its about maps and visuals.

I am heavily into maps and visuals, not only for the tactical purposes, but also for the purpose of it being a form of Art- both in the drawings, the forming of imagination, and the fact I've been playing Video Games and watching TV for the last 23 years and rarely read anything and so visuals are a must for my psyche, lol.
With that said, we use a combination of things. After this post I'll post pictures in addition to information about our shadowrunning game in another thread.

At first I used a combination of WorldWorksGames and free cardstock buildings (all made from cardstock). We had a 4'6 battlefield that composed of a neighborhood. This was "our neighborhood". We started all as 12 year old street kids in a massive trash pile in the Redmond Barrens. With manutrition'd stats of 1 and 2 and without any skills. We were adopted by a tough ex-mafia pizza shop owner with a soft-spot for homeless kids (on condition we were his workers, so slave labor in exchange for food and shelter lol) and now we are 16 with developped stats, street fighting skills and knowledge, and we got kicked out of Stinky's Pizza to move in to a run down 3-wall shack behind the massive trash pile we started in. This means our entire first many adventures never went outside this incredibly small neighborhood.

Granted we couldnt stay in a two block area for the entire street teenagers campaign. Also, a build 3d virtual world that was 4'6" was too clunky and began to become a waste of space, so we retired it.
We tried GameMaps such as Paizo's "Slums" map set and Paizo's "Inn" dry-erasable map, which the inn looks IDENTICAL to stinky's pizza on the inside. It's great to simulate any tavern, inn, pizzeria, etc. in the Redmond Barrens (medieval style wood, makes it kindof look like a run down crap hole of a building)

But the easiest, most efficient, and best visual is self-drawn. I use a pencil and a notepad and rip out pieces of paper. Very crude and basic visuals (quickly drawn, saves time) help a lot. We also use two pieces of WorldWorksGame's street tiles as visual for the streets (these dont get in the way, and since they're cardstock and very quality visuals, it's perfect flooring for walking the streets. The "battlefield" was tiles glued on to thin foam type stuff (like a Miniature War Game Terrain) so it got in the way. Im going to print off just cardstock squares of the flooring (which includes concrete, streets, etc.) and the cardstock accessories can be added easily (street lights, stop signs, busses, destroyed cars, etc.) But only using about 4 tiles is perfectly fine.
For anything that isn't outside streets or rooftop apartment escape scenes, we just draw on the paper and go.

For long distance travel, we have an entire MAP of a large part of the redmond barrens. This is about a 16 block by 9 block radius that includes several neighborhoods, squatter areas, trashpiles, a corp Walled community, a massive Biodome in the middle, and the Body Mall near it.

For Miniatures, I have been extra creative. We draw full figure pictures of our characters, then I scan them, shrink them, and print them on cardstock. So we have our self-created art of our characters- details and all. They have a unique, fun artistic style to them (kindof like a form of Anime all to themselves) even if neither of us are artists.

I will post pictures in a second. Perhaps in another thread.
Wesley Street
QUOTE (Aiolos Turin @ Jan 20 2009, 02:35 PM) *
For Miniatures, I have been extra creative. We draw full figure pictures of our characters, then I scan them, shrink them, and print them on cardstock. So we have our self-created art of our characters- details and all. They have a unique, fun artistic style to them (kindof like a form of Anime all to themselves) even if neither of us are artists.

Cool! Though I've gone totally digital, I did the cutouts when I first started GMing Shadowrun. If anyone is curious, you can purchase cardboard figure holders here: www.boardgamedesign.com. Warning: ugly website.
raggedhalo
We mostly use sketches on pieces of paper, or crosses/names drawn on printed maps. For really big conflicts, I'll draw stuff on a wipe-clean hex map using OHP pens. It makes life _significantly_ easier.
Mercurian
For those of you who use grid or hex maps, how do you work out the movement? My group pretty much sticks with the old fashioned 'mind's eye' map. We never could find a satisfactory method to work out the movement between the disparate IPs of the team using the rules put forth in the book.
Aiolos Turin
QUOTE (Mercurian @ Jan 20 2009, 03:48 PM) *
For those of you who use grid or hex maps, how do you work out the movement? My group pretty much sticks with the old fashioned 'mind's eye' map. We never could find a satisfactory method to work out the movement between the disparate IPs of the team using the rules put forth in the book.


I am just now trying out a new style for movement.

Thanks to a lot of gaming aids (primarily WorldWorksGame's streets) and probably a lot of tweaking (adding 1" grid to everything) I'm going to attempt a 1-3 meters per 1" grid.

Houserules, I cut in half the meters you can walk and run. I tended it in real life, and in 3 seconds (1 comabt turn) I can only walk/run HALF the meters the rules state. I am in good health and a bit quicker than most, but even speed walking I cant walk 10 meters (32' 9") in 3 seconds. Unless my feet/meter conversion is totally off, my human feet incredibly small, or my timing (seconds by mouth) inaccurate...
So effectively the human walk is 5 meter/turn and run is 12 meter/turn.

I am still working for a system, but once I find a stable system I will have exact measurements for each one. The Street 1" grid works for any outdoor urban environments. For large-scale scenes I have a very big map sectioned in 3"x3" two-block neighborhoods. I have yet to do generic inside floorplans, so the movement in those is still anarchy. If each 1" grid is 1 meter, and on average I use two or three 7"x7" tiles, then each person can walk 5 squares or run 12. Ideally I will hope to use no more than 9 tiles (3x3) which would be approximately 21" x 21" which is enough room to be more or less than even a sprinting troll (17 meters+sprint) can run from one end to the other. With 3d cardstock terrain and houses, cover and LoS is very very easy to handle. Also I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so everything is to exact scale, give or take the terrain and buildings (which can be any size...as there is no standard size for a redmond barrens apartment building). This means that I print to scale my cardstock figures using an exact meter/feet height measurement system and print at approximate 30% plus or minus size.

I will upload some pics of wth im talking about nyahnyah.gif
Aiolos Turin
Here are some pics of what I want to try and use. Faster setup than you'd think. 9 tiles, grab a few houses plop. Grab a handful of terrain things and place, and fin. Done.

I cant seem to put them as pictures, it just says [img] [/img] so heres the links I guess?

Cast of Characters
View of all of it
Characters and Map


Some props and cover
Closeup of Cover, Barrels, burnout Car
Verticle View of all 3x3

Stinky's Pizza
Stinky's Pizza and a few houses.
Two characters
Some more characters
Thadeus Bearpaw
QUOTE (Shadowfox @ Jan 3 2009, 03:56 PM) *
How many of you use battle maps, and/or how common is it among Shadowrun players? I've played 3.5 dnd and many times we wouldn't use a map and it made it more fun to visualise more than use a map. When I've played 4th edition DND, I hasn't felt the same to me, almost as if I'm just playing a weird chess game with magic and swords.

I'm just wondering if anyone doesn't use maps, and how it works for you?


I used a grid for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th edition D&D, I found it really helped for battles, and the group liked the sudden tactical interactions of gridded combat, it saved me time having to describe everything and increased my tactical ability since I was able to concentrate on the fight. I know this doesn't work for some groups, but I've always felt D&D was a tactical exercise as much as a immersive world-building game, so the grid really helped.

That being said, Shadworun tends to have alot more stuff and alot larger ranges to deal with. I couldn't use a grid nearly as easily, and tactics became as much about the huge variety of things my enemies might be carrying, as well as changing terrain, reinforcements, covering, traps, etc etc etc. All of which I noticed mattered alot more in Shadworun. The group found it more helpful to get exact ranges on target and a description of their cover, than me trying to draw it out. It was more immersive and simultaneously tactical, especially after the first player fired a grenade on the target on the landing missed, and I just completed the arc meaning the grenade smacked into the middle of the street (don't ask). So for Shadworun, Mutants and Masterminds and similarly large scaled games, I don't use grides. For D&D, Cthulhutech, and games that have a strong tactical streak, I use grids.
Beetle
I tend to make area maps in Illustrator and give them out to my players for handouts. They have grids on them for approximate scale if they need to know basic distances and sizes of places. This works great for figuring out roughly where small groups of people are in relation to one another.(I use mini d6's to represent different squads on my gm version.) Since I have things already on a rough grid I can whip up a battlemat quickly if I need to for tactical purposes.

I do agree with Cain, battle mats can be a pain in the ass when it comes to movement and where everyone is during a combat turn with multiple IP's. So I only go down to the battlemat if necessary, like areas that would provide lots of cover.
raggedhalo
QUOTE (Mercurian @ Jan 20 2009, 05:48 PM) *
For those of you who use grid or hex maps, how do you work out the movement?


Divide your normal movement rate by the number of IPs. You decide at the beginning of each IP whether you're standing still, walking or running.
Mercurian
QUOTE (raggedhalo @ Jan 21 2009, 02:13 AM) *
Divide your normal movement rate by the number of IPs. You decide at the beginning of each IP whether you're standing still, walking or running.


This is pretty much what I was thinking but I'm a little confused about working the map in when it comes to characters with different IPs.

Scenario:
Sammy the Samurai has 3 IPs
Mickey Meathead only has 1P
Both have the same movement.

Mickey uses his one IP to shoot and move. Does that mean, when a map is in play, that he shot on the first IP and still moving across the map on each of Sammy's additional IPs?
IceKatze
hi hi

I find that some kind of visual representation helps people get an idea of where they are and what kind of neat things their character could do unless they possess an exceptional spatial awareness at which point maps can sometimes hinder their creativity on battlefield tactics. Still, its not too hard to let some people ignore the map and simply explain to the GM what they want their character to do, then let the GM handle the positioning on the map for everyone else.

Even if you don't even have miniatures or markers that you move around, often a plain, non-grid map will prevent people from getting turned around and lost in the "My character stepped on what? I thought we were over here, when did that happen?" kind of way.
Speed Wraith
Since my game is very action-oriented we have no choice but to use a map of some sort during combat. In the past (ie 1e and 2e SR games) it would depend on the exact situation - if it were a major scene where combat was possible or even likely we would use something, if it was a minor run-in that wouldn't last long or wasn't all that important to the story then we'd go without. We've been using a grid battle mat with dry-erase markers and those tiles from D&D. I would prefer using hexes for the movement (which can be a royal pain), but hate partial hexes and walls that don't confrom, etc.

QUOTE (Ruin-Gar @ Jan 3 2009, 10:29 PM) *
My group and I would like to use a mat and minis, but we can never find any good Shadowrun minis. We're not fans of the metal ones we've seen, and Star Wars minis kinda don't feel right.


Oddly enough, I usually use Storm Troopers for goons/corp sec types...my PCs have chosen minis from a variety of sources, our teenie-bopper technomancer's player ripped Jubilee from off the base of a Hero Clix mini for instance.
Mercurian
Personally, I would prefer to keep maps out of my SR games. I feel they detract from the immersion and turn the game into a table top tactical game rather than roleplaying game. The rest of the group, however, is hooked on the battle map play after an extended campaign of D&D.
InfinityzeN
I use a dry-erase board or paper to draw out a rough layout to help my players visualise better. Don't use the map for actual combat though.
eidolon
QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Jan 21 2009, 02:02 PM) *
I use a dry-erase board or paper to draw out a rough layout to help my players visualise better. Don't use the map for actual combat though.


Ditto. I don't place too much emphasis on "movement" other than its effects on ranged combat, etc. If I think a combat would benefit from a visual, I'll sketch one out, but a lot of the time I just describe what's around. If a player wants to seek cover, I let them add to the scene if it makes sense, like "I take cover behind a nearby stack of shipping crates" on a shipping platform and so on.
Shamrock
I have to use a map when I GM. I'm too scatterbrained otherwise... I keep notes (either on my cellphone notepad for easy view during a session or on a sheet of paper tucked away with my rulebooks), as well as using maps. For some time, I used a hex grid, although now, I may forgo that entirely. Someone mentioned GamesWorkshop earlier, and it's kind of funny because after reading over the rules and movement rates and checking out maps, I saw that there was typically a scale available for meters somewhere on the map. So I figured, why not use the movement style from Warhammer 40k? A simple ruler and a specification of meters in inches or centimeters would work perfectly, as well as allow freedom of movement in 360 degrees instead of being constrained to an 8 directional grid.

I have yet to try this, but I will be doing so in the near future.

But anyway, back to the original point. Maps are a necessity, during combat at least. Simply because with a lot of enemies and numerous things going on at once, it's a good idea to take one big load of everyone's mind by giving them a visual representation instead of insisting they keep it all in their head.

IceKatze
hi hi

It also kind of depends on the scenario. If you are in a research facility with clearly distinct rooms, you can say something like, "I fall back to the room with that crazy tube thing." However, some locations can be extra confusing.

I went on one run where a gun fight broke out in the middle of a parking ramp. It was full of hilarious dialogue such as

"I move back three cars."

"Take 8S stun from the neurostun."

"No, I meant back away from package, towards the entrance."

or:

"I take cover behind the door."

"So you got out of the car?"

"No, the car door."

"So you're still in the car?"

"No, I'm outside the car but with the door between me and the guard."

"But if you're outside the car, then you've got a guard right next to you."

"No, I'm on the passenger's side, not the drivers side."
Warlordtheft
I use mapped out battles sparingly. A: my gun fights are like the ok corral, in 10 seconds the gunfight is over. B: 9 times out of 10 describing the scene works. and C: It is a pain in the drekhole to set up.

That being said I have used quickly drawn maps to show everyone where they are in relation to things.
Sprawl Sites, DMZ and at one point I had some dungeon works stuff that had magnets in it to keep the walls in place. It looked neat, but without miniature funiture it was missing some thing.

Resources that are former SR products with pregened maps:

Sprawl Sites (a book, so you'll need a copier)
Sprawl Maps
DMZ

Non SR maps that may work:
Dungeon works had put out a SCI Fi version of its master maze
Varios dungeon tiles and programs (to numerous to list, but it wil not help the ambiance unless it is a sewer or cave the runners are actually in.)
Any Architecht design program.



Cain
QUOTE (Mercurian @ Jan 21 2009, 10:35 AM) *
This is pretty much what I was thinking but I'm a little confused about working the map in when it comes to characters with different IPs.

Scenario:
Sammy the Samurai has 3 IPs
Mickey Meathead only has 1P
Both have the same movement.

Mickey uses his one IP to shoot and move. Does that mean, when a map is in play, that he shot on the first IP and still moving across the map on each of Sammy's additional IPs?

Your movement rate is divided by the number of IP's you have. So, Mickey would shoot and travel his full movement on his action. Sammy would only cover 1/3 of the same distance each IP. So, the slower guy actually sprints a lot further.

A sketched-out overview of the battlefield isn't a bad idea. But trying to get things down to tactical movements in Shadowrun is destined for tears. The system simply cannot handle detailed battle-mapping.
raggedhalo
QUOTE (Mercurian @ Jan 21 2009, 02:35 PM) *
This is pretty much what I was thinking but I'm a little confused about working the map in when it comes to characters with different IPs.

Scenario:
Sammy the Samurai has 3 IPs
Mickey Meathead only has 1P
Both have the same movement.

Mickey uses his one IP to shoot and move. Does that mean, when a map is in play, that he shot on the first IP and still moving across the map on each of Sammy's additional IPs?


Naw. The way I run it (to make life easier), Mickey goes through his entire movement in that first IP, whereas Sammy spreads it across each of his three. If you don't mind the bookkeeping (and make sure that Mickey declares his whole movement in his IP and can't change his mind) then you could move him (Normal rate/IPs in turn) per IP, sure.

Movement-wise, the real advantage to multiple IPs is that you can make multiple Running Tests and go ridiculously fast.

I make sure that my players move and then act or act and then move in one IP, rather than allowing move-act-move, which I think makes it way too powerful.
Mercurian
Thanks for the input. I think I'll just stick with those suggested methods and tell my more tactical-minded players to deal with it, hehe.
IceKatze
hi hi

If you need to sell the idea of not using a battle map to tactically minded players, just tell them that now they can control their character in three dimensions instead of just two.
Speed Wraith
I don't get the confusion on movement and mapping...you follow the rules in the book. It is hardest on the GM since he has multiple characters to deal with, but that's why I take notes on my laptop or scratch paper when it becomes a problem. Yes, the rules as written make it seem weird, but that's because we look at combat in terms of turns rather than as a seamless combat like our characters "experience".
Cain
QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Jan 22 2009, 12:33 PM) *
I don't get the confusion on movement and mapping...you follow the rules in the book. It is hardest on the GM since he has multiple characters to deal with, but that's why I take notes on my laptop or scratch paper when it becomes a problem. Yes, the rules as written make it seem weird, but that's because we look at combat in terms of turns rather than as a seamless combat like our characters "experience".

The problem is that movement is spread out amongst the IP's. So, each figure is in constant motion, with the exact distance based on the number of IPs he has. Also, it gives some wonky results, in that slower characters can close faster than quicker ones, giving them better shots. You can fix this by having each character move on each "tick", but then dividing out the distances becomes a headache, and Shadowrun isn't meant to be a tick-based system in any case.

Speed Wraith
Hmm...I never thought about it, but the "closing faster" part makes sense. Strangely, no one has yet to make an issue of it at our table, probably in part because we don't want to over-do house rules and partly because it just doesn't make that much of a difference when a goon gets a decent shot and then waits in the open to die the rest of the time. Sorta balances itself out really, since just about everyone that is important tends to have multiple IPs, even the spell flingers.
Cain
The goon with one IP doesn't just get the better shot, though. He also has first crack at the best cover, best chance of escaping into a vehicle, gets the the MacGuffin first, and so on and so forth. You also have to add "stacking" rules, which aren't necessary in an abstract system.

Shadowrun is not meant to be an exact system. It's made to be abstract, to use approximations and to assume a few different things rather than exactly portioning it out with a tape measure. Trying to take things to the tactical miniature level is going to be an exercise in futility, since the system simply isn't designed for it.
Zombayz
My group uses maps, but it's more of being able to where the party is in comparison with the enemy/objectives.
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (Shadowfox @ Jan 3 2009, 01:56 PM) *
How many of you use battle maps, and/or how common is it among Shadowrun players? I've played 3.5 dnd and many times we wouldn't use a map and it made it more fun to visualise more than use a map. When I've played 4th edition DND, I hasn't felt the same to me, almost as if I'm just playing a weird chess game with magic and swords.

I'm just wondering if anyone doesn't use maps, and how it works for you?
SR lets players get all sorts of data, maps and readouts on things I don't always have handy. I work with geography types (google maps) or large scale strategic maps until the need for specific data (astral mappers or hacker types) comes along, then when needed I'll draw out the detail (sometimes on the fly) from maps i've created or stuff from books/prior runs.

For combat, we always use the grid maps (25mm:1m) and use figures, hot-wheel, etc. for player/NPC placement. Vehicle chase scenes and other abstract encounters, we'll use a map to help keep relative distances (1sq = 100m, 10m, etc.). My map is large enough to handle most situations, else we evaluate changing scale or moving to strategic maps (opponents flee/die) and resume.

Since this is all 2D, it can get tricky representing 3D events but 3D has its own set of problems. cyber.gif
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