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Malachi
Ok, forgive me if this has already been answered before. I was wondering if there is a definitive opinion on when a extra Attribute dice "count" towards the Augmented Maximum.

So far, any device that says it "increases" the Attribute or the Attribute DP (without any conditions), I have been counting towards the Augmented Maximum.
Any device that says it provides a "bonus" to the Attribute or Attribute DP, or if it states that the device "increases" the Attribute but only under certain conditions, I have not been counting this towards the attribute maximum.

However, this system has raised some difficult issues. For instance, Bone Lacing increases Body, but only for Damage Resistance tests. Does this count? Reaction Enhancers state that they provide a Bonus to Reaction, implying that they do not count towards Augmented Maximum (and that they would stack with Wired Reflexes, despite the FAQ ruling).

This whole situation would be solved if the rules use two clear terms when defining how a device affects an Attribute or Skill. Use the term Increase (with a capital "I") in all cases where the Augmented Maximum should apply. Use the term Bonus (which is already capitalized) in all cases where the Augmented Maximum doesn't apply.

Anyone else needed some clarification on this?
Heath Robinson
I had it as anything that "increases" or provides a "bonus" to the Attribute counts towards the Augmented Maximum. Anything which provides a DP bonus doesn't count by my reading - it's a DP modifier instead of affecting the attribute in question. The distinction factors into the game when rules use the attribute without involving a roll.

I always welcome clarification, though.
HentaiZonga
We always err in favor of Attribtue and Skill Augmentation over Dice Pool, even when the modifier is circumstantial. Helps keep the final dice pool down.
darthmord
QUOTE (Malachi @ Jan 9 2009, 12:38 PM) *
Ok, forgive me if this has already been answered before. I was wondering if there is a definitive opinion on when a extra Attribute dice "count" towards the Augmented Maximum.


Here's my opinion for what it is worth...

QUOTE
So far, any device that says it "increases" the Attribute or the Attribute DP (without any conditions), I have been counting towards the Augmented Maximum.
Any device that says it provides a "bonus" to the Attribute or Attribute DP, or if it states that the device "increases" the Attribute but only under certain conditions, I have not been counting this towards the attribute maximum.


If it increases the item directly (Ex: +1 Str, Agi, Qui), it counts towards augmented maximum. If it's a bonus to the dicepool, it does NOT count. Wearing a pair of gloves that gives +1 bonus toward all Str tests would such a beast. The key is whether or not the increase is always there for all purposes or is conditional somehow.

QUOTE
However, this system has raised some difficult issues. For instance, Bone Lacing increases Body, but only for Damage Resistance tests. Does this count? Reaction Enhancers state that they provide a Bonus to Reaction, implying that they do not count towards Augmented Maximum (and that they would stack with Wired Reflexes, despite the FAQ ruling).


Bone Lacing only provides its bonus to Body for Damage Resistance tests. A Conditional bonus doesn't count toward augmented maximum. See my note above. Reaction Enhancers are different. They always provide their bonus. They are an attribute buff.

Also, the specific overrides the general. If a specific entry says something that contradicts the general rules, then think of it as the exception to the rule.

QUOTE
This whole situation would be solved if the rules use two clear terms when defining how a device affects an Attribute or Skill. Use the term Increase (with a capital "I") in all cases where the Augmented Maximum should apply. Use the term Bonus (which is already capitalized) in all cases where the Augmented Maximum doesn't apply.

Anyone else needed some clarification on this?


Preaching to the choir.

Personally I would prefer a stat block for each item that clearly indicates a direct bonus (or an increase) or a dice pool bonus. Your suggestion of Increase or Bonus works. So does Buff / Bonus or Buff / Dice Pool.
ElFenrir
Also, remember there are some things that add bonuses...but specifically say they override it. Take the Military Armor's Strength augmentation-it adds directly to Strength while it's on-but allows you to go past the Augmented Maximum. I guess because it's like an outside force(like a human putting on some sort of hydraulic arm-sheath or something.)

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