Ok, I think I am starting to get to grips with the matrix.

I now get the ideas about hacking things (Nodes, drones and 'links etc) and im getting there with Technomancers.

I would like to run something by you all.
Correct me if I am wrong, but:

My groups TM encounters a Drone that is already controlled by someone else.

He can see the drone - and its node.
He immediately does a Brute force hack with a +6 mod for getting Admin access

IF he is seen this alerts the Drones Rigger and/or Agent and will have to deal with various countermeasures (IC, cybercombat etc)

After all that he can SPOOF the machine into accepting him as primary user
Intercept the signal between the drone and Comlink to hack the link or
use EDIT to remove the subscription between the Comlink and Drone
set up one of his sprites to control and defend his new acquisition.


I must be wrong somewhere along the line.

Also, if the TM defeats the Hacker in Cybercombat and he gets disconnected from the Matrix - How long is it until he can get back online? Will he be able to get back in time to combat the TM and save his gear?

I think simple or complex action to get back into the drone. Hackers can really nickle and dime TMs and it is basically the only way they can fight a TM on the matrix. If a hacker can increase the IPs on his meat body he can just go cold sim and slowly chip away at a TM until he wins. For how quickly you can take over drones in this game (stupidly fast IE less then three seconds generally) expect riggers to be extremely paranoid mother lovers. If you can bitch slap a rigger or hackers defenses that quickly with no kinds of twists and turns and various forms of tricks then they have a shitty network.

The TM can then continue his offense by invading the Hacker's commlink, and destroy it. The hacker cannot do the same to the TM. That's a big advantage.

you can spoof commands to the drone without hacking it at all. Basically youre faking the computer into thinking its getting commands from an admin or user. then you and the owner can take turns re-issuing commands and you basically render the drone moot until your meat-bod buddies can deal with the drone appropriately.

You dont have to hack your way in to do an OS crash attack either. Think of it like a DDoS, and you bog it down with so many fake commands that it cant filter them fast enough and has to reboot.

You encounter a drone, and no matter what happens inbetween, it is now your turn to act.

1. Seeing the node. The drone won´t advertise (run stealth), so it is a hidden node. Requires WiFi-Scan, location known exactly, threshold 4. Time to find the node: estimate 1 turn. If you need to do other things, too (what with being in combat and all that), you command an agent or sprite to do the deed (if it is already active one simple action, else two).

2. Usually you would usually want to know the targets Firewall and Analyse ratings before you hack, another simple action. Would be nice if you wouldn´t have to wait for the WiFi-Scan results first, heh? Could be a good time to order Support Operation for Stealth (the second sprite service used). That thing has guns blazing though, no time.

3. Hacking on the Fly for Admin Access. Again an intervall of turns, and it might well be two turns instead of just one. Give commands to the device, simple action.
or
3a. Use Sniffer to gain the drone-users matrix ID from the drones traffic (complex action), Spoof "Dump Ammo" order to the drone (complex action). Potential delay: Encryption might require Decryption, again with an interval of turns.

Ok, I'm not an expert on anything here, but it seems to me that hacking a drone would be much more difficult than just a matrix linked system. Consider a drone that is remote controlled by radio signals. Using the same technology that pagers use, this drone ignores all signals but those on the radio frequency the control transmits on AND only responds to commands that begin with a 300+ digit code which almost insures that the drone won't fly off course when the kid down the street takes his RC Banshee toy out for a spin. That in it's self should keep the drone under control, but if the rigger also sets up the drone to be controlled by alternating between several frequencies based on an algorithm that both the controller and the drone both know but third parties do not, and just to make it more confusing for the third party have the controller transmit on all of the potential frequencies but send false orders to the drone on all the frequencies that the controller knows the drone won't be listening to and I'd be very surprised to find out that even the legendary Fastjack hacked the drone in real time.

But maybe that's just my reality getting in the way?

Hmm. Fastjack hacks drones in real-time.

He's got the power of Plot.

you are essentially describing a drone with encrypted transmissions, and probably operating in hidden mode (making it hard to find the drone's proper frequency).

so yes, that is reality getting in your way. welcome to the world of easily-broken encryption... once we're talking enough power to crack encryption in the short amount of time SR4 gives, i think we've established that you can probably analyse all the traffic to figure out which frequency is giving orders that the drone actually follows.

I'm still trying to understand how rigging works in combat.

If you are in AR mode you can watch all the drone feeds and choose to fire one of their weapons and/or direct the actions of the drone.

But if you are in VR mode then don't you have 2 or 3 actions so could you fire that many of their guns?

Drone Initiative passes. "Drone Initiative equals Pilot rating + Response, and they receive two extra Initiative Passes (three total)." Does this mean they can fire 3 times? I think so

What if you Jump Into a drone. Aren't you still in VR mode so wouldn't you still get 2-3 actions?

Then there is this, p239 "A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative—the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are made using the rigger’s own skill and attributes." That seems like I would use the automatics skill if that is the gun the drone has. However in the Unwired book p105 the chart seems to conflict.

Really what I was thinking was that though my hero Fastjack can crack encryption like the top on a cold beer that assumes he's got access to the encryption. When you're hacking the matrix the computers involved, both offense and defense, are already communicating on accepted frequencies under an accepted protocol. A rigger's equipment doesn't have to play by those rules. He can change frequencies, change encryptions, even run the drone on full automatic. It's like saying that the computers all run off of 120AC so that the rigger must run his equipment on 120 AC- he doesn't. Since the ONLY communication that the rigger and his drone are interested in are each other they don't have to conform to communication protocols of any other system, and, in fact, it is preferable that his homebrew protocols don't mesh with anyone else's.

I guess I'm just biased because I prefer a system where riggers are not made obsolete by a punk kid packing a gloryfied cellphone. I must be showing my age.

You dont fire the drone's guns unless youre jumped in. If the drone is acting on it's own pilot programming, then all you need to do is order it to attack enemies or attack a certain target.

And yeah, running Captain's Chair mode in VR is quite awesome, especially if you've got several drones to order about.

Correct, a Rigger can be in VR and still not be "jumped into" a drone ("Captain's Chair" is the old SR3 term, but it still holds good meaning). When running in this mode the Rigger can then issue commands to his drones using his 3 or 4 (or possibly 5) Initiative Passes, making him quite a formidable opponent.

Drone networks are very difficult to secure. Even with the Drone Slaved to the Rigger's Commlink, and an Encryption program running that re-encrypts the signal with a new key every Combat Turn, there are vulnerabilities. However, if that Encrypt program is changing the protocol every Combat Turn that does slow things down a bit. Each new Turn an intruding Hacker would have to break the Encryption all over again. Hopefully that takes 1 or 2 IP's, giving the Hacker only 1 or 2 IP's to mess with your drone. If this frustrates the Hacker then they can try to break it "once and for all" by breaking into the "commanding" node (your Commlink) and trying to subvert things from there. However, they'll probably need Admin access so that's going to be quite a hack to get in. They'll probably trigger an Alert on your Commlink while doing so, and then you get to confront them in some Cybercombat, and that's where the fun stuff starts.

Don't forget that Unwired added some modifiers to make Spoofing not quite so unbelievably awesome:

Or, alternatively, the alarm goes off, they make sure the drone is following their last given command on it's next Encryption cycle.. (first pass) and then (second pass) set the drone to only accept 'Verbal Command Authorization: Peckinpah' and then shut the fragging wireless link OFF. Sure, the drone doesn't recieve anymore commands from the rigger until the rigger says "Verbal Command Authorization: Peckinpah, re-instate wireless link." but hopefully by then, that pesky hacker will be paste. They tend to be fairly lightly armored and have not much in the way of dodging skills.

Turning OFF wireless communication isolates the drone from any kind of outside force that doesn't use a screwdriver, or a bullet. (Or a horrible spell or something... you get the drift.) That drone doesn't get to coordinate with your other drones, you can't jump into it, and it only accepts a command that basically requires a simple action to give it (and spoils your 'secret password' cause you said it out loud') but the dogbrain drone is unhackable for the duration.

You can get an IR sensor. Look it up it is in Arsenal, and you can give commands to the drone w/o it being able to be hacked or controlled by anyone else.

Are you talking about the Laser Link on page 58 of Arsenal?

Oh yeah.... that one.

How does the Rigger give the re-activation code after the Wireless link is off? Does he have to physically walk up the drone and speak to it?

Laser Link is all right if you're in open field combat, not so great indoors, seeing as how it don't really go round corners.

The voice command idea seems neat, but there's just so very much that can go wrong with it. I mean what if following its last set of orders causes the drone to go careening off into the sunset chasing after a target, and you never see it again... until it turns up on the 9 o' clock news, with Lone Star looking for the person responsible for the drone that opened fire in the middle of a downtown shopping district, mowing down several innocent bystanders?

If you are indoors drones don't work well in general. Drones are mostly open field combat or mid field combat, because you can fit a small car through doorways.... dang steal lynx..... warehouses work, open areas, but if you are moving through a corridor you are probably not bringing a drone. Maybe an iball, a fly spy, or a medium walker would work.

Speak for yourself. The Doberman is nice for indoor combat. I've yet to see a Steel Lynx used for anything other than decoration. It's worthless to a runner.

OK.
So, assuming we get an ammo dump and admin access to the drone, can the TM see the link to the Riggers commlink and, while they are fighting over the drone. No problem. If the hack isn't detected then obviously the change in orders is going to be unusual, so he will start making Matrix Perception (Simple) which will reveal the TM's presence.

So, a few points (Excuse me if I am repeating myself, still newbish to this.)

1, Do his Sprites also have to hide (and can they use his stealth?)

2, With Admin access, is the Agent automatically friendly Or would he need to spoof a command to ignore the TM OR Cybercombat it?

3, When the agent is out, does the Rigger have to reload it or can the TM just put a sprite in to take over control of the drone?

4, Will deleting the Riggers account force him to hack back in?

5, does admin access show all other subscribing devices? (ie Riggers commlink)

6, can he then follow go to the commlink, which he can then hack or attack? If so, how does he destroy the link effectively severing the Rigger from the matrix?

and finally, 7, How does he triangulate the physical location of the Rigger?

After this, am I right in assuming the drone is effectively his?




I have a feeling there is somethign I am missing, or am making over complicated...
Please help guys... I think I am getting there

If the hack isn't detected then obviously the change in orders is going to be unusual, so he will start making Matrix Perception (Simple) which will reveal the TM's presence.

-> Spoofed orders need not be obvious. The rigger might simply not monitor certain settings, or have twenty other drones to play with and be elsewhere.


1, Do his Sprites also have to hide (and can they use his stealth?)

-> A) Yes, but only if they are present in the target node. B) No.


2, With Admin access, is the Agent automatically friendly Or would he need to spoof a command to ignore the TM OR Cybercombat it?

-> An agent protecting the drone, already attacking? Admin access alone won´t help, no. But see 3.)


3, When the agent is out, does the Rigger have to reload it or can the TM just put a sprite in to take over control of the drone?

-> I guess you are confusing autopilots and agents. The autopilot is a kind of System, it doesn´t deal in matrix combat. The autopilot won´t care about you having root now. A sprite would not replace the autopilot, but use it (by giving orders or using the Command CF).



4, Will deleting the Riggers account force him to hack back in?

-> Yes. But some tricks might make that harder, like "require a passkey and validate account deletes before execution".


5, does admin access show all other subscribing devices? (ie Riggers commlink)

-> "Show subscription list", even Security should be able to do it.


6, can he then follow go to the commlink, which he can then hack or attack? If so, how does he destroy the link effectively severing the Rigger from the matrix?

-> Yes, whatever granted subscription between security rigger and drone before lets you attack the known matrix node now. Your best chance is getting a "Black" attack against the rigger in, or Disarm the riggers programs without leaving a clue.


and finally, 7, How does he triangulate the physical location of the Rigger?

-> A Trace, pg. 218. No test required, since the accessID is known and the node in range (of the drone at least), but a deviation of 50m according to German RAW.


After this, am I right in assuming the drone is effectively his?

-> It was after step 4. Sole admin. Or more specifically, it was after you made your hacking-on-the-fly temporary access into a permanent account. Thief.

Ok, awesome

so when the agent is taken down, it won't come back, right? It would require a user to reboot?

Also, what is required to Effectively destroy a node?