Hey guys, new to the board, been checkin' it out for a while though and decided to sign up, as Shadowrun is hands down my favorite tabletop RPG.

I've played a lot of SR3, but recently decided to try SR4 (I purchased the book back in 2005, but never got around to using it as I had a lot of SR3 material to get through first).

Anyway, I was wondering if there were things I should attempt to avoid that would make running a first game troublesome.

Thanks ahead of time, and I look forward to participating further on the boards!

Well, first and foremost: Avoid House Rules at first. Seriously. Until you know how things work starting off, house rules do nothing but confuse the issue.

Second, I would say that, if you do not already have the full corebook set, get Unwired first, since it helps with the alot of the stuff with the new Matrix, and get everything else as you and your group feel ready for it. However, generally speaking, I would go:

Unwired, Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runners Companion. (Note that Street magic and Augmentation can easily be flipped around in order...Arsenal, though...the first thing I know players in every game I have ever run or played in have wanted: Weapons and new toys..and Arsenal is the book for that.)

I would say only let your PCs take 1-3 edge pts and just say that all commlinks you buy include the basic programs at 1 (search, edit, etc).
I to would say stay away from rule changes till you have played a 1/2 dozen times.

I'd suggest not having hacking, rigging and technomancers in the first few sessions. (also not the character types out of the companion; ghouls, free spirits or AIs are not for people who don't have a firm grasp of the rules.) Start with combat and magic. When you do bring in the computer stuff you need to ensure that the players involved and you have read the rules and everyone thinks the game works the same way. There are a few references people can direct you to that help clarify this part of the game.

I'd agree that you don't want to be changing stuff until you have tried it a few times. I think there are some seriously broken parts of the game that simply require too much work to fix well, and the "simple, obvious" fixes tend to result in other serious issues. So my feeling is that you are better off finding the parts of the game that drive you and the players crazy after 4-8 sessions, rereading the rules, asking here, and only then banning or houseruling stuff.

I disagree that you should avoid hackers. It's really no more complicated than anything else in the game. What books you should get depends on your players and demand. If you have a lot of mod junkies Augemtation is good to get, and Arsenals is great for weapons and vehicles. But if your group is all mages you'll practically need Street Magic. Unwired is alright, but I wouldn't put it high on my priority list.

Of books to avoid using first campaign, probably companion. We used it first campaign and right off the bat we had someone wanting to build a drake with the karma system. So we has a huge bash-out argument on whether or not it we should allow it until he gave us the "Let me play how I want or I'll leave the group!" ultimatum. With all the new build rules, races, and etc in companion it's best to avoid it until you know the core rules.

Finally, getting out of books. Don't stick in any house rules unless their easy to remember offhand. Don't beat yourself up for missing rolls or forgetting a rule, it'll probably happen once or twice. Just mostly work things out with your players. If you've played SR3 a whole lot, it's all basically the same as any tabletop from there. If your whole team is new to fourth the only issue you'll probably have is going to be people being unhappy with their characters and wanting to remake or such.

I also disagree that you should avoid hackers. Keep it really simple in the beginning, but start a complete game. If you build your own characters, go low on the IP in the beginning. The SR2 "no street sams for newbies" is still true regarding initiative - once you are accustomed to going 4 times per round, even 3 times feels like molasses. Here are some community-created archtypes.

(I have this thread over in the Community Projects section to help with introducing the matrix. If you even have problems.)

At that point, the proper response would be "Get the fuck out". Those kinds of players are nothing but a detriment to the game; I have no problem with customizing shit for a character - I do it all the time. But those who must play their way, regardless of what the rest of the group is doing, can & will destroy the game.

I wouldn't leave out the hackers either. I would keep your players to the main book only for their first characters. Get a handle on those rules before mixing it up. You may want to run a few one shots and then let them decide if they want to make a new character or keep the old one with a bit of karma.

My experience is that it's easy to get bogged down in the the hacking rules, arguments over how it works, and agents. My opinion is that that whole block of rules is not very well thought out or written and has internal logic issues so requires more work on the part of the player/gm so they are playing the same game, so delaying that until everyone understands how magic and combat work seems best. But I'm not going to be there.

Everyone shows up to the game. If you can't make it, call ahead & let all players & GM know so that a decent rescheduling can take place. If the player substitutes someone else in to run their character, they are NOT allowed to complain/gripe/fuss/ect. if somehting bad happens to said character while they are absent.

Depending on how long the night runs, at least 2 breaks must be taken for food, smoking, bathroom visits, ect. All cells are to be put on Vibrate (the person getting the call politely excuses themself from the table to complete the call--which should take no longer than 3 minutes) so as not to disturb the flow of the game.

All participants must be respectful of the play-space. NO food at the game-table. All trash must be policed by the person who makes the trash & disposed of properly. NO loud noises if the game takes place in a residence--be respectful of all other occupants.

EVERYONE BRING YOUR OWN BOOKS & DICE. 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be,' sayeth the Bard.

Maybe dice, but everyone bringing their own books is a bit un-necessary, especially if you play with a group of friends or people you've known for quite awhile. Sliding a book over for someone to read during some downtime or to check equipment is no big deal. As for dice, I think it can go either way. In our group the GM always brought a whole shitload of dice and we split it up before the game, but if your GM isn't dice loaded it's better to bring your own.

Asking everyone to cough up cash for books though is a bit far.

Well it wasn't a make-him-leave moment really. I think he was pissed at us because we were pretty much pulling reasons out of our ass, and we were mad at him for making the character using the karma gen system despite being asked not to. In the end we were all kind of in the wrong, and the GM decided to allow the character.

I am also new to running SR4 and I am having hell with the bloody Hacking/Rigging/Technomancer Rules. Magic - no problem, Computers - Horrible.

Do what I did the first time I ran Shadowrun First Ed (Talk about complicated!). Find a back country cross roads and wait until about midnight with nothing more than the clothes on your back, the BBB, and a bag of six siders. If found acceptable, a shifty looking Johnson will roll up in a Nightsky and make a "deal" with you. If he looks like Robert Deniro, it's definitely the right guy. Make the deal (hell it didn't cost me a dime) and you'll be successfully running a near constant Shadowrun game for going on 15 years.

Yup. I hate aspects of the combat system, but it's a coherent whole that works. The computer stuff - not so much.

I would suggest keep to the BBB as much as possible and avoid all the new fancy schamncy options presented in Runner's Companion (apart from karmagen and Qualities).

- J.

I would disagree that computers should be ignored. Computers are the most important aspect to the running of society in Shadowrun; ignoring them would be a disservice. If you have anyone who wants to play a hacker, you should let them, but preface it with them learning the rules for it and trusting them to properly use them.

Umm, that isn't what we are suggesting. We are suggesting that people get comfortable with the parts of the game that actually work fairly well before venturing into the poorly written contradiction land where the computer rules live.