As you all know I can be hard on 4e. I still say early 2e is the best but really rules wise in 4e I've pluged anything I thought was odd. In the end the changes were the karma costs and all commlinks puchased come with a basic set of programs. There are some things I think should change for style reasons but they are for style and not deal breakers (the real style comes from behind the screen, not rules anyway). The fluff until today I found drab. I started reading the back fictional characters in the Runners Companion on a whim today and I have to say this makes me look forward to the new Seattle book. If the guys at Catalyst can continue to make npcs I can feel, then I can make them come to life in my own games I will hang my 2e hat and embrace 4e. Infact I plan on buying Ghost Cartels now

*Hands you a commlink, a technomancer proof tinfoil hat, a Temp derm and some koolaid.* Welcome aboard!

Hmm... if the NPC colour is what attracted you to 4th then Ghost Cartels is certainly an interesting read. On the other hand I wouldn't reccomend trying to run it until you've picked up most of the other 4th ed material. All of the rules expansions are invaluable (as they get referenced heavily in the NPC stats), and the campaign covers all the major locations described in Corporate Enclaves and Runner Havens.

Emergence is pretty missable; just grab the cliffnotes here on Dumpshock unless you really have money to spare.

I agree there wholeheartedly. Alot of the Fluff, I know me and my GM tended to reference the older stuff on. But, I have to say, the little fictions written at the back of Runner's Companion I really liked. Even the surprises(I always thought Picador was a guy, for instance).

Now, though, I have to say: I love the shadowtalk in the newer books. It is something I missed in 3rd Edition, where it seemed TPTB just wanted to make the books dry and pure rules. Bleh. The return in 4th Edition, with their new Jackpoint Format(where you have mostly known posters...not the 'Shows up in one book, and never hear from them again' like we had in 1st and 2nd) makes me very happy.

And, Ghost Cartels is very much worth it. Even for the stories of the characters in it. Unfortunately, it has the death of one of my favourite Shadowtalkers in it



My GM just finished a neo-tokyo campaign, with the events from Emergence as the backdrop. But, yes, unless you are running something set during that time, it is kind of optional. However, I think it is good for a Technomancer player to have, as it gives a Jackpoint eye view of what is going on when Technomancers are becoming a known quantity in the world.

Of course, if you like the Shadowtalk, and the stories being told through it...Feral Cities is also a must.

Personally, though, I have to say: I hope NetCat shows up more...heck..I hope she shows up in a novel! I like her!

I think the problem with the fluff in the base book was that it tried to summarize all the past history, and then get us into the present matrix 2.0 era. I think if one read a long series of novels setting this all out, it would be pretty good. But the little summary timeline thing is fairly snivelsome -- drab is a good word to describe it. What's especially off-putting is how they reference canon characters as part of the timeline, like "and then this dragon Ghostwalker came and took over Denver." That sounds utterly retarded when you just read it as a one-sentence summary. But a book about it might be ok... Though Ghostwalker is probably a bad example because I hear the books about him are stupid. But w/e, hopefully you get my point. The fluff takes on a lot more vibrancy in the campaign books where they have time to explain things in detail.

CGL is really taking advantage of the well established player base, and I think dumpshock in particular. Every thing published for SR4 does not have enough of the fluff to really get the spirit of SR*, I feel it's very compatible, but if it wasn't for my months of noobing it up here, there is no way I would have any clue what the setting was really about.


Don't forget the trods!

I do agree here...

Strangely, this has also lead to differences in how shadowrun is portrayed based on the edition the persons were most fond of before. 3rd Edition players seem to be really big into the whole "Trenchcoats and Mirror shades" style while 1st and Second seem to be much more at home with the "Pink Mohawks" style. Admittedly, even in Second edition, I liked to arm my characters with Ares Squirt Guns loaded with non-lethal concotions, as well as gel rounds for my pistols, SMGs, etc....So, I was an oddball back in the days of the "Woo-hoo! Let's blow up the doors of the facility, and get what we needed!" (Then again, I also played an E&E specialized Rigger...)

Ironically the older I get the less gamist I get. Which is why I still like early 2e the best, back before rigger 2, awakenings and matrix 2.0. Shadowrun has always drawn me in from the fluff not the rules. I'm not quite into the really light games like Wushu but who knows in the next 10 years. I have all of the 4e core books and Runners Havens but to date I haven't found anything inspiring other than these npc stories. If theres some other gold mines in the core books I would love to know where they are.



Don't feel too odd thats how we always played to.

Ditto. I warned the players in my 2e games way back when in a college five hours away, that if they ever needed more than a few clips of ammo during a run, they are probably hosed anyway.

It started growing on me too. Some steel wool and warm shower fixed that though, washed right off.

I dunno, although I love Shadowrun in any incarnation the transition was pretty simple. It's basically like playing any World of Darkness game cept' I'm using D6's instead of D10's. Although SR4's combat seems to drag ass IMO. Roll to hit, roll to dodge, calculate, roll body+armor, calculate.

Reminds of Exalted 1st Edition combat. Really clunky. Although I'm sure that once I get more used to it it'll be easy and fly right by.

Although I do agree that well designed NPCs certainly make the game. Setting and atmosphere is important too, but what fun is a cool world if it's inhabited by boring people? Gimme some kick ass NPC write ups and I'm a happy camper in any setting.

iirc, picador's gender was clearly stated when she was introduced back in sota63,

Never got the SOTA books....Fields of Fire is the first book I remember Picador from...

then you missed out on something, matador took a round to the head between FoF and sota63, leaving picador in command...

R U CRAZY???/ iF TEH BOOK IZENT @ LESS 10 YEERS OLD IT IZENT SHADORUN!!!

Wow how can anyone not be swayed but such a well written, and thoughtful argument as that?

Hear him, hear him!

The system has it's good points, although I still maintain that it's not as good as other systems on the market. Despite the damage it's caused, however, it does manage to hang on to the soul of Shadowrun.

*pats tete on the shoulder* Welcome aboard, tete. Your t-shirt, proclaming you as an SR4 convert (with complimentary target on the back) is in the mail. <j/k>

I dont think shadowrun has ever been the best of systems just a ok to good one with a cool setting.

Second that... great setting, cool ideas, ok system.

Oddly enough, I've always liked the Shadowrun system, at least as far as Sr1-3 goes. For all the many, many issues it had, it was a unique and innovative system that was so good, it was copied by White Wolf.

It was sorta copied by White Wolf. One thing I always loved about Shadowrun 1-3 is that didn't mess around when it came to combat. It was brutal, lethal, and if you were an idiot you were also wall paste a moment later. Oh, and when it comes to WW and Shadowrun... I'm so damn thankful that SR gives you a setting and says "Here, have fun." instead of the famous WW metaplot of "Here, this is our setting, and these are our NPCs. You'll never be as awesome as they are. You're a pawn, enjoy."

Sure, you might be a pawn in Shadowrun... but nine times out of ten you're a well paid one.

IIRC, some of the same people who developed Shadowrun (I want to say Tom Dowd) wrote the Storyteller system for Mark Rein*Hagen. Also, some of the Shadowrun design team are listed as playtesters for Storyteller. The two systems had definite links to each other, just like SR4 has direct links to nWoD. Rob Boyle said as much.

Oh, no doubt. I just meant that they are certainly different enough (at least IMO) to say one is one, and one is the other (they just have similarities). At least, and I know I'm repeating myself here, the NPCs Shadowrun are more immersive than WW ones. I'm still a big 'Dreyfus the Doofus' fan.

And then it was refined, and the refinements folded back into the trunk.

You mean, "Baby thrown out with the bathwater". I think the refinements that were finally developed for SR3 should have been used in making SR4, instead of going with an untried system.

Actually, I meant the refinements made by the Storyteller team.

Hence "folded back into the trunk."