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so I have a team of four i'm GM'ing for. 2 of them are all out fighters. a Phys ad and a cybered orc. the other 2 are a Hcker/rigger and a mage. it seemed like a well rounded group. but the mage and the hacker are all about finding the non-violent solution(the hacker has incompetence in unarmed combat !!) and the fighters are almost bored. also, the Run they're on involves recovering a bunraku girl for the yaks, and the team is split on ethical issues as well. part of me is enjoying the squabbling, while part of me is worried about making runs for characters who probably shouldn't work together
The easiest solution is to design runs with multiple objectives that must be accomplished simultaneously. Make sure that there is something for everyone. Perhaps the fighters need to create a distraction while the mage and hacker infiltrate and steal the McGuffin. Or the fighters need to hold a certain area long enough for the the hacker and mage to accomplish some goal. Or the hacker and mage need to find and take out a drone rigger before the fighters are overrun by a force of killer drones. Stuff like that.
see method's post. however, if the team themselves are doing the mission planning, creating scenarios that allow them to do so may be tricky.
hi hi

I've had this same problem before and there's been a handful of ways I've dealt with it. So far, the method that I've found yielding best results is "escalate, escalate, escalate." I learned this lesson while GMing a Dogs in the Vineyard campaign, which has a strong base with character driven, non-physical conflict.

No matter what the players are doing, there are always ways to escalate the conflict in the scene, even if people are just talking. If you make the non-combat players really work for their safe way through, then there should be plenty of times where their plans fail and the combat players get their fun.

• Give the NPCs motives that conflict in such a way that the players have to make a choice between one or the other.
• Have the NPCs start fighting amongst themselves and drag the players along for the ride.
• Have the NPCs negotiate the pants off of the PCs until they feel like they have to fight back or get robbed blind.
• No matter how much legwork they do, you can always throw surprises at them, sometimes totally random things might happen like perhaps a suborbital falls out of the sky right next to their position during a run.
• Threaten NPCs that the PCs have connections with.

Make the non-combat players appreciate the value of the violent solution while at the same time make the combat players appreciate the challenge of the non-violent path.
Being incompetent in unarmed is pretty trivial in SR, particularly as a rigger. If his drones airbursts grenades on people who attempt to close to HTH I think he'll probably not have much chance to use the Alpha that he doesn't have incompetence with.
Make sure their bickering is in character - then it's just good role playing biggrin.gif

Otherwise, see Method's post
Incompetence in Unarmed really is trivial... right until someone grapples you. (See Subdual Combat, P152)
QUOTE (JFixer @ Jan 26 2009, 12:34 AM) *
Incompetence in Unarmed really is trivial... right until someone grapples you. (See Subdual Combat, P152)

Getting to that range able to fight is kind of hard. And then average hacker/rigger is simply screwed. They don't have either the body or the str to effectively fight even if they have a few points of skill.
Yeah and a drone can single shot the person holding the rigger in the head. Riggers and unarmed combat just don't mix. It's like a mage saying that they can't hack ever, but then just sic their rating 6 agent on everything.

My advice is be creative. Maybe put the team on defense once and a while. Generally formulating a plan when doing bodyguard work is tough, and sometimes combat will break out when there is nothing you can do about it. Other times the team might have to high tail it with the package. Mix it up a bit and don't just let the runners be on the offense 24/7.
hackers and mages can be traced. that's why it's a generally bad idea to leave your body all alone. there's the opening for us heavy hitters. when they are discovered,people are bound to come looking for the meat end. especially if they FAIL at what they intend to do . . shmooze their way in for example and whoever is in the way just does not budge.
in a world where the other side is more likely to shoot and then ask questions, talking should not be able to solve all problems EVER . .
I can totally understand why many players try to avoid combat like the plague. It is so deadly. 2-4 burst shots and most characters are dead. All it takes is focussed fire, which happens more often than not. In a game where character creation takes so long that gives me another reason to avoid death.

As far as combat goes I totally understand your dillema. Why don't you try a bodyguard mission. Just make sure that you give them plenty of small chances to spot the impending trap. They shouldn't have much chance of discovering it beforehand but 4-5 chances sounds about right. That way you can say that they had a chance to discover it. At least then you can have both be happy. Let the rigger and hacker be offsite or something and the combat characters can be there to get killed.
I've GM'ed SR (tabletop) for over 12 years now and the greatest thing they've put in is the rep system/notoriety. My take on this is, that if your runners ALWAYS take the violent path their reps will represent that. They will only get the wet-work or grunt jobs, they will be black-listed (extreme case) or passed over for thought on other gigs. That's everyone in the team btw, quilty by association. Believe me even the most kill-crazy player will eventual ask why we only get these low paying, hit the guy laying low in a Redmond hooker hotel jobs? Simple, all you do is kill. Use their reputations, it serves as much as a guide as it does to how bad-hoop they become.

Also, as long as its IG back and forth and not bickering, its just good old roleplay, and the Phy-ads/Sammies can protect themselves in the prison showers....the geeky little hacker though..[[shudder]]

A GM sets up jobs and uses the system. If a GM can effectively set up a system where violence will probably end up being used at one point or another then it is a good option. Our party tries to avoid fights like the plague, but that doesn't mean it can always be avoided.
QUOTE (masterofm @ Jan 26 2009, 05:51 PM) *
A GM sets up jobs and uses the system. If a GM can effectively set up a system where violence will probably end up being used at one point or another then it is a good option. Our party tries to avoid fights like the plague, but that doesn't mean it can always be avoided.

Exactly correct, as long as violence is an option not the rule of thumb. Even in the military themed games i GM'ed violence was an option not always the rule.
To me, while everyone has specific roles to play I do think that everyone should have the capability to do some legwork. This should keep the gun bunnies involved. Heck, you can even throw in a firefight should the situation warrant it (you start asking questions some gets nervous). My group currently consits of six players. 2 mages, 2 physads (stealth), 1 weapons specialist, and 1 rigger/hacker techno mancer. All have some capabilites to do legwork.

However I would mention that before the players made their PCs I did discuss the type of game they were playing and would actively encourage them to have such skills. It has been stated in previous editions of SR the lone wolves don't last long, so a PC should at least have 3 good contacts (IMHO).
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