Dumpshock Forums > Shadowrunners in simsense in 2070

The Jake

Jan 27 2009, 08:19 AM

If you're in my group of players and read this STOP READING NOW:

[ Spoiler ]

MY PCs muscle has been skipping sessions due to overtime and its at a point I need to create an NPC muscle to help out. I am toying with the idea of said NPC being a simsense star undercover, looking to record new experiences to feel what it is TRULY like to be a shadowrunner. I'm bouncing around an idea for a simsense star called Anna Kalishnikova (aka. AK) who is a street samurai often filling in for teams that need additional muscle.

After reading Unwired and getting an update on simsense, I was thinking -
Shadowrunners are obviously hot commodities when it comes to sims right? Suki Redflower and the like. Now the hard part of simsense is that the actor has to experience what its like to be a shadowrunner.

So, if that was the case, whats to stop a simsense star being sent undercover as a new addition to a runner crew with cybereyes, ears, commlink, MBW, etc and just having that actor tag along and record everything they say and do? Better yet, what if said star didn't know it? I was thinking what if someone volunteered to have their memories completely re-written to become a jaded, experienced street samurai and infiltrate the shadows, record their experiences and have them sent off to some simsense company for "post-prod" editing/touchups? I am wondering if this actor may or may not even know they are a simsense star.

I mean if the actor knows the runs are staged, that has to effect the emotional output of the sim recording. However, if the actor believes it is real (more importantly, it is real) that would have to heighten the emotional readings to create a truly sensational experience.

Obviously there are many logistical issues -
Fame for said sim actor making anonymity in the shadows night impossible (unless they get major surgery after every job/film release but that's common for especially paranoid runners I presume), compromising runner teams, reprisals against teams that would take on such a person from shadowrun targets, not being able to get sim recordings of other runners or enemies they encounter (footage could be edited post production I guess), etc.

I guess I'm just putting the idea out there to see if it was viable or find a way to make the story viable, if possible.

- J.

Synner667

Jan 27 2009, 08:31 AM

Done in Queen Euphoria.

Fuchs

Jan 27 2009, 09:02 AM

Great Idea!

The Jake

Jan 27 2009, 10:13 AM

QUOTE (Synner667 @ Jan 27 2009, 08:31 AM)

Done in Queen Euphoria.

That is probably one of the only SR modules I've never read or played (I don't own it).

As an aside, how would you make it workable? How would the actor disguise their fame? How do you prevent reprisals against the team that takes on said actor as a team mate? Would the company edit the videos to ensure anonymity?

- J.

Fuchs

Jan 27 2009, 10:20 AM

Queen Euphoria wasn't really done like that.

[ Spoiler ]

Graushwein

Jan 27 2009, 12:45 PM

The party would want the star dead as soon as the sims started coming out and after that no Johnson would trust the team. Maybe if you changed all of the faces and voices it would take a bit longer but the places and gear would be the same. It would just postpone how pissed everyone would be at the team and that person IMO.

JeffSz

Jan 27 2009, 04:16 PM

Just want to note that with simsense adventures, the point-of-view person will NOT get famous because the viewers won't see his/her face except when she's looking in the mirror. Things that character sees are in the spotlight.... not that character him/herself.

Trideo stars are more recognized - but then you'd need trideo camera bots hovering around the runner team constantly.

Kanada Ten

Jan 27 2009, 05:21 PM

Simsense slotters can probably recognize a simstar just by the emotions and sensations he or she is recording, much like a singer is recognized by voice...

Regardless, I'd have the starlet approach the team above the table, make them a deal and get them in on the rights. They can edit out faces and corporate logos in near-real time (IIRC from Corporate Enclaves), and you can also have the team contact her for runs which would work best as a sim (aka, those runs when your muscle is absent).

If other runners have the gear, PolyPOV simsense is worth much more money.

The Jake

Jan 28 2009, 01:05 AM

QUOTE (JeffSz @ Jan 27 2009, 04:16 PM)

Just want to note that with simsense adventures, the point-of-view person will NOT get famous because the viewers won't see his/her face except when she's looking in the mirror. Things that character sees are in the spotlight.... not that character him/herself.

Trideo stars are more recognized - but then you'd need trideo camera bots hovering around the runner team constantly.

They have to market the face of the actor as part of the production? If you're going to experience someone else, you want to see them and know its for a fit/attractive person!

But lets assume they didn't - the runners would know what he/she looked like and what skillset they possessed.

It wouldn't take much to pass along that information around the shadows so that everyone knew who/what to look for.

- J.

Rasumichin

Jan 28 2009, 03:16 PM

QUOTE (The Jake @ Jan 27 2009, 11:13 AM)

As an aside, how would you make it workable? How would the actor disguise their fame? How do you prevent reprisals against the team that takes on said actor as a team mate? Would the company edit the videos to ensure anonymity?

Nanopaste disguise, nanopaste disguise and probably also nanopaste disguise.
Did i mention nanopaste disguise?

That should be sufficient for facial recognition.
You may also want to use a voice modulator (a good choice for media types anyway) and probably also print removal, retinal adjusters and genewipe.
The Deep Cover quality from RC would certainly come in handy- getting PAB reprogramming to pull it off should be a cakewalk for a media corp like Horizon.
In other words, just build a decent face of the chameleon variety.
It would be a particularly interesting marketing move to build up a shadowrunner simstar whose real identity no one knows.
Hey, going out of public completely worked for Thomas Pynchon, too!

As far as the other team members are concerned, it wouldn't be that hard to tell them they have to constantly use nanopaste for the job if expenses are covered (they could even be supplied with decent preprogrammed identities by the corp's makeup artists).
Voices could be altered post-production.
Logos of the target company could be blanked out or edited otherwise.
Make sure to hit an installation that pulls off projects incriminating to the target corp.
They won't drag you to the corporate court if it means admitting that they've done unethical metahuman experimentation or something like that.
Also, it would make the anonymous target company appear like fair game for shadowrunner sabotage in the eyes of the public.

Drogos

Jan 28 2009, 03:26 PM

QUOTE (The Jake @ Jan 27 2009, 08:05 PM)

They have to market the face of the actor as part of the production? If you're going to experience someone else, you want to see them and know its for a fit/attractive person!

But lets assume they didn't - the runners would know what he/she looked like and what skillset they possessed.

It wouldn't take much to pass along that information around the shadows so that everyone knew who/what to look for.

- J.

So why wouldn't the studio in question just hire an attractive model to be the stand in for the street sam that probably is on the verge of cyberzombieism anyways and isn't likely to be all that attractive after the repeated fights and surgeries? They can just edit out any place in the Sim where you would see the face of the sim-actor.

The only issue would be the actor's teammates, as has been mentioned. I'm not sure how much mucking with emotive tracks I'd allow, short of just cutting pieces together with possibly a light transition where the user of the sim can switch from emotion to emotion in a flow. If you think about it, a run would be a torrent of emotions, but there would be some points where the emotion would lull and a studio would want to minimze those. However, that is completely fiat, so if you want to allow the editing of key details to the viewer, it'd pretty much up to you. I actually think that this a really cool way to pull off the Judas quality. In fact, if I ever end up with anybody in my group with it, this is probably how I'm going to do it.

Fuchs

Jan 28 2009, 03:33 PM

QUOTE (Drogos @ Jan 28 2009, 04:26 PM)

So why wouldn't the studio in question just hire an attractive model to be the stand in for the street sam that probably is on the verge of cyberzombieism anyways and isn't likely to be all that attractive after the repeated fights and surgeries? They can just edit out any place in the Sim where you would see the face of the sim-actor.

This is not some Medieval Fantasy RPG. Biosculpting means that as long as you have a bit of money left you only show scars if you want to, and can look however you want.

Only the poor are ugly in Shadowrun.

Drogos

Jan 28 2009, 03:37 PM

Cause Shadowrunners are rolling in wealth to spend the extra cred on biosculpting and every black clinic is devoted to ensure their customers look good as well as survive.

Just to be clear, biosculpting costs additional cred, so if the character is willing to pay for it, then yes, they look however they wish to pay for.

Rasumichin

Jan 28 2009, 03:39 PM

QUOTE (Drogos @ Jan 28 2009, 04:26 PM)

I'm not sure how much mucking with emotive tracks I'd allow, short of just cutting pieces together with possibly a light transition where the user of the sim can switch from emotion to emotion in a flow. If you think about it, a run would be a torrent of emotions, but there would be some points where the emotion would lull and a studio would want to minimze those. However, that is completely fiat, so if you want to allow the editing of key details to the viewer, it'd pretty much up to you.

Actually, simsense editing is described in detaill in Unwired.
In a raw simsense recording, you have each sense and the emotional input as a seperate track, just like a well-gated multitrack audio recording.
All you have to do is avoid asynchronous tracks, but with a skilled cutter, you can do pretty much anything with the raw material.
Exchanging emotional responses, even doing emotional overdubs post-recording, is a common practice in simsense productions.
It's a relatively convenient copy-and-paste approach, much like musical recordings today.

Drogos

Jan 28 2009, 03:41 PM

Thanks for the info Ras. I really need to read Unwired.

Fuchs

Jan 28 2009, 03:44 PM

QUOTE (Drogos @ Jan 28 2009, 04:37 PM)

Cause Shadowrunners are rolling in wealth to spend the extra cred on biosculpting and every black clinic is devoted to ensure their customers look good as well as survive.

Just to be clear, biosculpting costs additional cred, so if the character is willing to pay for it, then yes, they look however they wish to pay for.

Minor biosculpting costs 2'000 Nuyen. That's the cost of a few hours worth of a nanodisguise (2 "charges" I believe). I honestly can't see any decent Shadowrunner being unable to afford biosculpting.

Drogos

Jan 28 2009, 04:50 PM

So if they pay for it, they can make some minor cosmetic changes. And the costs only increase and it then becomes a question of what minor biosculpting entails. I tend to think of minor as small scar removal, botox, minor rhinoplasty, etc. If your definition differs, so be it. In that case, I'm sure your players pretty much ignore latex and nanopaste disguises in favor of just popping down to the clinic and becoming a whole new person for a couple grand once the heat gets too hot.

Fuchs

Jan 28 2009, 05:30 PM

Minor biosculpting gives you a +2 social modifier just for being attractive. That pretty much means you'll not be ugly anymore.

Rules are defined in Augmentation, p. 56 and 61. Changing your entire body is a trivial task.

Fuchs

Jan 28 2009, 05:41 PM

Costs also play an important role. A latex mask (single use) costs 500 Nuyen. Nanopaste (single use, lasts 24 hours) costs 500 (face) to 1000 nuyen (body) (SR4 p. 330). Spending 1 to 2K on surgery starts to look very attractive given those prices for any task that needs more than a day spent in disguise.

Drogos

Jan 28 2009, 07:13 PM

Woohoo for retarded rules that marginalize previous gear. I see your point and agree that yes, surgery is retardedly beneficial in comparison to what makes sense. I'm glad that +2 is optional, because I'm opting that it'll cost more than 2/5 a BP.

Adarael

Jan 28 2009, 09:30 PM

QUOTE (Graushwein @ Jan 27 2009, 04:45 AM)

The party would want the star dead as soon as the sims started coming out and after that no Johnson would trust the team. Maybe if you changed all of the faces and voices it would take a bit longer but the places and gear would be the same. It would just postpone how pissed everyone would be at the team and that person IMO.

And that right there is the major difference between running in 2050 and running in 2070. I'm quite serious.

If you look at the portrayal of Shadowrunners in 1st and early 2nd edition, they were much more interested in being rock stars with chicks, drugs, & bling than in 2070. Back then it seemed to be much more traditionally 'cyberPUNK' with an emphasis on the punk part.

Which isn't to say you can't STILL run it that way. I'm just talking about how the world is portrayed.

Rasumichin

Jan 28 2009, 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Adarael @ Jan 28 2009, 10:30 PM)

And that right there is the major difference between running in 2050 and running in 2070. I'm quite serious.

If you look at the portrayal of Shadowrunners in 1st and early 2nd edition, they were much more interested in being rock stars with chicks, drugs, & bling than in 2070. Back then it seemed to be much more traditionally 'cyberPUNK' with an emphasis on the punk part.

Which isn't to say you can't STILL run it that way. I'm just talking about how the world is portrayed.

*points to the LA section of Corporate Enclaves* You might want to take a look at that.

The Jake

Jan 28 2009, 11:04 PM

QUOTE (Drogos @ Jan 28 2009, 03:37 PM)

Cause Shadowrunners are rolling in wealth to spend the extra cred on biosculpting and every black clinic is devoted to ensure their customers look good as well as survive.

Just to be clear, biosculpting costs additional cred, so if the character is willing to pay for it, then yes, they look however they wish to pay for.

Actually, a megacorp raping profit off a shadowrunner simsense star would, which I guess is the point...

- J.

Adarael

Jan 28 2009, 11:55 PM

QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Jan 28 2009, 02:11 PM)

*points to the LA section of Corporate Enclaves* You might want to take a look at that.

I'm talking about Shadowrun at *large*, not specific areas of the world. The focus of the game line's portrayal OOC has shifted, despite things like Los Angeles.

And never forget: LA is always a bastion of wierdness, no matter what game it is.

The Jake

Jan 29 2009, 12:50 AM

QUOTE (Adarael @ Jan 28 2009, 11:55 PM)

And never forget: LA is always a bastion of wierdness, no matter what game it is.

Having lived there for a year... fark yeah... heard that.

QUOTE (Graushwein @ Jan 27 2009, 12:45 PM)

The party would want the star dead as soon as the sims started coming out and after that no Johnson would trust the team. Maybe if you changed all of the faces and voices it would take a bit longer but the places and gear would be the same. It would just postpone how pissed everyone would be at the team and that person IMO.

That's my take on the situation. I was wondering if that would be the fun part of the run - runners and fixers who brokered the deal and introduced said actor to the PCs, would they in turn all want to try and redeem themselves? Could you redeem yourself even?

That's the real question I guess.

- J.

Hagga

Jan 29 2009, 01:02 AM

How do implanted sim rigs work? THis is more my own curiosity than anything else - do they transmit to the commlink? Can you have them save the data in implanted memory or that in the datajack?

The Jake

Jan 29 2009, 06:35 AM

QUOTE (Hagga @ Jan 29 2009, 01:02 AM)

How do implanted sim rigs work? THis is more my own curiosity than anything else - do they transmit to the commlink? Can you have them save the data in implanted memory or that in the datajack?

By RAW, simrig just allows for the recording of simsense data only. In theory, any piece of cyber can already wirelessly transmit.

In practise, I would be using the simrig via commlink and/or datajack.

- J.

The Jake

Feb 2 2009, 12:52 PM

Random thought:
Can a simsense star record simsense with just trodes? Or is the implant required? I would imagine that yes you could, but trodes for recording would result in signal degradation....

- J.

Kanada Ten

Feb 2 2009, 06:18 PM

There is an external simrig, but it's not 'trodes. IIRC, it's almost a full getup.

Oenone

Feb 2 2009, 06:58 PM

QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 28 2009, 05:41 PM)

Costs also play an important role. A latex mask (single use) costs 500 Nuyen. Nanopaste (single use, lasts 24 hours) costs 500 (face) to 1000 nuyen (body) (SR4 p. 330). Spending 1 to 2K on surgery starts to look very attractive given those prices for any task that needs more than a day spent in disguise.

Except according to the description for each of the grades of biosculpting you'd need more than minor biosculpting to actually look like a different person.

Real world celebrities who get plastic surgery in modern terms are probably only getting the same effects as minor biosculpting and they can generally be recognized as the same person (Unless things go horribly wrong).

Which means you'll take some essence loss. Which then brings up the question can you overwrite biosculpting with different biosculpting without losing more essence? (IE Is each use a seperate modification of sorts or does getting a new face first give an essence hole for taking the old face off....?)