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Punkxronin
Hello. I've been lucky enough to get into a forming SR group, and it's fallen to me to cover the CQC role with a smattering of infiltration to help my team out. One of the reasons i love shadowrun is you can tackle the same job from so many different angles as it were, but now I'm stuck. Too many awesome choices.

I'm trying to figure out which would be most effective and most fun to play. I love CQC characters and Infiltration is a blast so from that standpoint I couldn't be happier... My problem is how to get the job done. At first I was gonna roll a Blade Adept (or a Gun adept)... but the more I look at it I'm happy with Cyber/Bio to do the job... and the idea of a Shaman/Mage who uses spells in CQC sounds intriguing as well...

Can I get some tips? What (mechanically) makes for a good CQC/Infiltration? In terms of play style I was looking at Jason Bourne (movies) for inspiration, hit-hard and fast if needed, but slip by if more practical. How feasible is it to do this type of play style with a Mage/Shaman? Would it be easier to just roll with an Adept or Augmented character?


Thanks in advance.
Falrien
If I were you I would go for something GOOD for inspiration.
May I reccomend Jean Reno's LEON?

The Jake
Put simply -

Cyber will give you an immediate edge.
Magic is a slower path to power.
Magic + Cyber is killer.

CQR is difficult to play out using BP for a full magician.

I'd say cyber or adept - maybe a little of both if done right.

- J.
InfinityzeN
I'd say Cyber or a Cyber/Adept hybrid would be your best bet.

The biggest thing to worry about though is the inspiration for the character, or maybe that is just me. I always come up with the idea and a touch of history before beginning to work numbers. Leon would be a good example of a gun totting Adept or Cyber/Adept hybrid.
Punkxronin
QUOTE (Falrien @ Jan 27 2009, 06:44 PM) *
If I were you I would go for something GOOD for inspiration.
May I reccomend Jean Reno's LEON?



oppinion noted... thank you for your time. (Yes... Leon was awesome...but not looking for opinions on which fictional character is cooler then another fictional character). Thus moving on.
raggedhalo
If you go the magical route, I suggest a magician (or perhaps mystical adept) of a possession tradition, probably voodoo. Initiate as fast as you can and take the Channeling metamagic and you will be composed of win. You'd also have access to useful spells like Combat Sense, Increase Reflexes, and Armour, plus handy infiltration spells like Physical Mask, Improved Invisibility, Pulse, Silence, Stealth, Sterilise, etc.]]

The Jason Bourne-inspired CQC character in my game is a mystic adept of the Hedge Witch tradition. Spirit powers like Energy Aura really ramp up the capacity for violence wink.gif

Adepts are generally what people go for when they cover CQC; you can be very good as a cyber character though.
ElFenrir
Here's a quick 'n dirty build. Cyber variant. Not totally min-maxed.

Jason Bourne the MCMXII

Human: 0 BP

+ Qual:

M. Arts. Lv. 2(pick)-10 For something sneaky, I suggest something that gives bonuses on surprise rolls, like Ninjitsu or something. Or just good ol' +2 to DV. wink.gif
Restricted Gear(Suprathyroid)-5BP

- Qual:

Pick 25. (+10 BP)


Attributes(220)

B: 4(5, +2 damage]
A: 4[7]
R: 4[6]
S: 3[5]
C: 3
I: 4
L: 3
W: 3
E: 4
I: 8/1[10/2]
Ess: 2.15

Resources: 32 BP(160,000)

'Ware(135,250)

Muscle Augmentation 1(.2)
Muscle Toner 2(.2)
Synthacardium Lv. 2(.2)
Wired Reflexes 1(alphaware)-1.6
Ceramic Bone Lacing(1.2)
Smartlink, Thermo Vision, Flare Compensation: 2,750, .3
Suprathyroid-.7

M. Arts Maneuvers(6 BP)

Contacts: 12 BP

Active Skills: 140

Infiltration(Urban): 5(+2)-22
Pistols(Semi-Automatics): 4(+2)-18
Unarmed Combat(Martial Arts): 4(+2)-18
Disguise: 2-8
Perception: 2-8
Athletics Skill Group: 3-30
Pilot Groundcraft(Wheeled): 1(+2)-6
Influence Skill Group: 3-30


There is plenty of wiggle room. This guy doesn't really have any electronicy-sneaky kind of stuff(like, scrambling electronic locks or anything), but he does have the influence stuff. You could skimp on the social type stuff and instead get the more B&E type stuff. Good Pistols, Unarmed, and hella good Stealth, athletics to climb about with(and gymnastics dodge.) This uses up all the BP, but you could change around the skills. This is I guess a basic ''physical sneaking, plus some social sneaking'' stuff(with a fur..gah, I even hate to say it, his social pool will be fine.)

EDIT: Added a second level of muscle toner. I realized I had forgotten that.
Knight Saber
I came up with an (as yet untested) design for a mystical ninja who uses touch spells in lieu of close combat, thread here. In short, mystic adept, magic 3, adept powers 2, overcasting Touch spells like Death Touch at force 6 since the drain is so low. You also get the +2 bonus to hit from touching in hand to hand combat.
pbangarth
OK, what is CQC? CQR?
Ryu
Close Quarter Combat, I assume.
Dwight
CQC = "Close Quarters Combat" I would imagine, roughly translating to "melee" in SR (Google it). Not sure about the "R" in CQR. "Role"? Just a typo?

EDIT: Note that CQC to the military/law enforcement definition includes stuff just outside melee range [plus some other stuff than just hitting people]. So techniques for SMGs, pistols, etc. are included. Not sure that was the intention of the OP?
InfinityzeN
Military/Police CQC covers very short range combat, often encountered while clearing buildings. Most commonly used weapons are SMG/Carbines, Pistols and Shotguns, along with flash-bangs, knives, batons and tasers. Primarily why the M-4 has become so popular in Iraq (almost all fighting in CQC) while the M-16 remains the top dog in Afghanistan. SWAT teams are extensively trained in CQC.
Punkxronin
Yes CQC is in reference to Close Quarter's Combat.

In terms of what I'm looking for is basically what the Runner's Companion defines it as, which would be some type of armed (or unarmed) combat skill which can be used to dispatch enemies at close ranges... Thus any type of skill from unarmed, armed melee combat, small arms (pistols, sub-machine guns, shotguns even some assault rifles). What makes this different from say Fire-support role is that a fire-support person is attempting to keep the enemy's head down, prevent them from moving/flanking. Meanwhile the CQC guy is the one who is flanking the foe while they are pinned down, getting into an advantageous position, and actually neutralizing them (kill/stun/whatever).

So in terms of skills, some type of melee/unarmed would be a good idea. Not every one can fight with their fists/melee (and thus gives you an advantage) and some times you may be unarmed or stuck in a position where drawing guns is not possible. Some mid-range weapon skills would be also useful... nothing sucks more then bringing a knife to a gun fight. So I'm not looking to make the character who's spraying led down range with his machine gun, or the sniper on the hill taking shots at 2 kilometers... but the guy who's with in a few hundred yards dropping opponents.
Sir_Psycho
Perhaps an ork blades specialist? A cyber-adept if you want to make something really deadly. For the stat boosts, you want to use bioware like muscle toner to pump up your agility and by association, your combat dicepools. The restricted gear quality can get you muscle toner four, which will be a huge (and essence friendly) bonus. Consider Orthoskin, as you might need to take a hit or two if you're getting up close and personal.

Adept powers are best spent on the cool things that can't be duplicated by cyber or bio augmentation, such as combat sense, missile mastery, etc. Depending on how your GM feels about it, you might be able to use great leap to close distances between you and a target.

Save some points for a martial art like Arnis De Mano which gives a DV bonus for blades. If you want to take some-one tough down really fast, use set-up and finishing move, which will allow you to make two rolls for your close combat test (specific details in Arsenal). Make sure you have a high throwing weapons, so that if faced with an enemy with a gun who you can't close the distance to in time without getting pasted, you can throw the knife you're holding. Grenades will also be excellent, not just for raw damage, but things like smoke grenade and flashbangs will make it really hard for enemies to see you (and if you take the blind fighting martial arts maneuver [or adept power] you'll dominate them). Also don't go past the flashpak, which just wearing and activating gives a -4 (or -2 in the case of flare compensation) dp modifier to hit you. If you work all the angles, you can bring a knife to a gunfight and put anyone who doubts you to shame.

Another great thing about knives (especially throwing knives) is that they work very well with the chemistry skill. Some toxins and compounds have instant effects, so a shuriken or throwing knife dipped in a certain substance can disorient, kill or knock out while you take cover and let the poison do the work.
Tyro
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jan 28 2009, 07:35 PM) *
Perhaps an ork blades specialist? A cyber-adept if you want to make something really deadly. For the stat boosts, you want to use bioware like muscle toner to pump up your agility and by association, your combat dicepools. The restricted gear quality can get you muscle toner four, which will be a huge (and essence friendly) bonus. Consider Orthoskin, as you might need to take a hit or two if you're getting up close and personal.

Adept powers are best spent on the cool things that can't be duplicated by cyber or bio augmentation, such as combat sense, missile mastery, etc. Depending on how your GM feels about it, you might be able to use great leap to close distances between you and a target.

Save some points for a martial art like Arnis De Mano which gives a DV bonus for blades. If you want to take some-one tough down really fast, use set-up and finishing move, which will allow you to make two rolls for your close combat test (specific details in Arsenal). Make sure you have a high throwing weapons, so that if faced with an enemy with a gun who you can't close the distance to in time without getting pasted, you can throw the knife you're holding. Grenades will also be excellent, not just for raw damage, but things like smoke grenade and flashbangs will make it really hard for enemies to see you (and if you take the blind fighting martial arts maneuver [or adept power] you'll dominate them). Also don't go past the flashpak, which just wearing and activating gives a -4 (or -2 in the case of flare compensation) dp modifier to hit you. If you work all the angles, you can bring a knife to a gunfight and put anyone who doubts you to shame.

Another great thing about knives (especially throwing knives) is that they work very well with the chemistry skill. Some toxins and compounds have instant effects, so a shuriken or throwing knife dipped in a certain substance can disorient, kill or knock out while you take cover and let the poison do the work.

Well said! I think I'll have to steal some of those ideas for my next melee master ^_^
Rad
Possession. Tradition. Mage.

Possibly with some adept thrown in.

The constant difficulty with melee characters in SR is getting to melee range without getting shot. With a possession tradition you can have a spirit inhabit your body to give you stat boosts and hardened armor equal to it's force, 3 IPs, and powers like movement and concealment to make closing and sneaking up much easier.

Best of all, you can have your bound spirits stay on standby on the metaplanes so you can pass through wards and whatnot without raising any alarms, then have the spirit pop up and inhabit you when you need it. Also of note is the Guardian Spirit's ability to have pretty much any weapon skill at a level equal to it's force, so you can summon one at need to use any weapon you happen to come across.

Once you initiate (and this should be the first thing you do with karma) go for the channeling metamagic immediately, then work on pumping up your mental attributes because a channeled spirit will no longer boost those.
AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Rad @ Jan 31 2009, 02:40 PM) *
Possession. Tradition. Mage.

Possibly with some adept thrown in.

The constant difficulty with melee characters in SR is getting to melee range without getting shot. With a possession tradition you can have a spirit inhabit your body to give you stat boosts and hardened armor equal to it's force, 3 IPs, and powers like movement and concealment to make closing and sneaking up much easier.

Best of all, you can have your bound spirits stay on standby on the metaplanes so you can pass through wards and whatnot without raising any alarms, then have the spirit pop up and inhabit you when you need it. Also of note is the Guardian Spirit's ability to have pretty much any weapon skill at a level equal to it's force, so you can summon one at need to use any weapon you happen to come across.

Once you initiate (and this should be the first thing you do with karma) go for the channeling metamagic immediately, then work on pumping up your mental attributes because a channeled spirit will no longer boost those.

Voodoo pratictioner Mystic Adept, if the GM allowes it use the "Learning Metamagic" optional rule learn Channeling even before initiation; I would also point out that an ally spirit can be great once you have enough karma to make it worth.
Rad
Oh of course. My Razor Eddie build is 750 karmagen of possession tradition ally-spirit goodness. I break him out for one-shot campaigns and he positively owns.

I based him off of the god in Simon R. Green's Nightside novels. He comes pretty close to matching the abilities. Of. A. God.

'Nuff said.

(He'd be even worse if I'd gone the dual-wielding monosword route and gotten those martial arts maneuvers that give you free full parry when wielding two weapons.)
Tyro
QUOTE (Rad @ Jan 31 2009, 07:26 AM) *
Oh of course. My Razor Eddie build is 750 karmagen of possession tradition ally-spirit goodness. I break him out for one-shot campaigns and he positively owns.

I based him off of the god in Simon R. Green's Nightside novels. He comes pretty close to matching the abilities. Of. A. God.

'Nuff said.

(He'd be even worse if I'd gone the dual-wielding monosword route and gotten those martial arts maneuvers that give you free full parry when wielding two weapons.)

I'd love to see that build.
Sir_Psycho
I've never considered a possession tradition mage. It's always seemed dull to me. I'm sure there must be interesting ways to roleplay them, but I can't see them.
Tyro
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jan 31 2009, 03:50 PM) *
I've never considered a possession tradition mage. It's always seemed dull to me. I'm sure there must be interesting ways to roleplay them, but I can't see them.

I'm interested just to see how an actual build would work; I wouldn't really want to play one, for the same reason you stated.
Rad
Eh, I'm still tweaking it--it's not quite Dumpshock-ready just yet...

...but here it is anyway.

NAME: Edward Blades AKA: Razor Eddie
RACE: Human [00]

-ATTRIBUTES- [369] (375-228=147)

BODY: 3 [15]
AGILITY: 4 [27]
REACTION: 5 [42]
STRENGTH: 2 [06]
CHARISMA: 5 [42]
INTUITION: 4 [27]
LOGIC: 4 [27]
WILLPOWER: 5 [42]

MAGIC: 8 [105]
EDGE: 5 [36]

Essence: 6
Initiative: 8
Initiative Passes: 1
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10

-ACTIVE SKILLS- [152]

Artisan (Guitars) 2 (4) [10]
Binding 4 [22]
Blades (Knives) 4 (6) [24]
Computer (Edit) 1 (3) [06]
Dodge (Ranged) 2 (4) [10]
Ettiquette (Street) 2 (4) [10]
Perception (Hearing) 3 (5) [16]
Sorcery Skill Group 2 [20]
Spellcasting (Health Spells) 2 (4) [02]
Summoning 5 [32]

-KNOWLEDGE SKILLS- (18 Free) [0]

[Interest] RazorPunk 2 [00]
[Street] LiveCast Matrix Clubs 2 [00]
[Street] Local Punk Clubs 4 [00]
[Street] Gang Turfs 4 [00]
[Street] Seattle Rumors (Paranormal) 2 (+2) [00]
[Profession] Music Biz 3 [00]

-LANGUAGE SKILLS-

English

-QUALITIES- [00]

Guts [-10]
High Pain Tolerance (3) [-30]
Magician [-30]

Combat Monster [+20]
Day Job (20 hrs/2,500¥) [+20]
Emotion Leak [+20]
SINner [+10]

-SPELLS/SPIRITS/FOCI- [135]

Increase Own Reflexes Spell [05]

Guardian Spirit (Force 8) [10]
Man Spirit (Force 8) [10]

Weapon Foci (Force 2) [06]

Initiation (3) [48]
Channeling Metamagic
Ally Conjuration
Invoking
Ally Spirit (Force 8) [56]

-GEAR- (40,000‚¥) [16]

Low Lifestyle (1 Month) 2,000‚¥

Plasteel Straight Razor 75‚¥
(Force 2 Wepon Focus) 20,000‚¥
Pearl Inlays (Prepared Vessel) 1,000‚¥

Lined Coat 700‚¥
Chemical Protection 4 1,000‚¥

Hermes Ikon Commlink 3,000‚¥
Novatech Navi OS 1,500‚¥
(Firewall 6) 3,000‚¥
Sim Module 100‚¥

AR Gloves 250‚¥
Headband Trodes 50‚¥
Subvocal Microphone 50‚¥

Virtual Instrument 50‚¥
Virtual Surround Music 50‚¥
Virtual Band 150‚¥
Wall Space 50‚¥
Certified Credstick (x3) 75‚¥

Fake SIN (Rtg 4) 4,000‚¥

-Software-

Edit 4 400‚¥

Stim Patch (R6) x10 1,500‚¥

1,000‚¥ Remaining

Starting Nuyen: 3d6+9 x 50‚¥

-CONTACTS- [36]

Bouncer (Connection 2/Loyalty 4)
Club Owner (Connection 3/Loyalty 3)
Fixer (Connection 3/Loyalty 3)

-QUOTES-

"Your clothes don't make you punk."

"Your hairstyle doesn't make you punk."

"The bands you listen to don't make you punk."

"*Being punk* makes you punk."

-DESCRIPTION-

Razor Eddie, the Punk God of the Straight Razor. That's what they used to call him. He was a star, once, but Eddie never really cared about the fame or the nuyen like a real musician should. Maybe that's why he crashed.

Rail-thin and razor-hard, Eddie's run-down appearance doesn't hide the supernatural strength radiating from his emaciated form. It's a bad idea to mess with him. He's fast as hell, and as dangerous with his plasteel straight razor as a street sam with a katana.

A quick blade and a cold heart are always in high demand on the streets, but music is still Razor Eddie's first love. These days he's looking into technology, booking gigs at matrix-clubs as well as two-bit dives, and experimenting with digital processing and simsense enhancement. Word is he's saving up for a simrig, so he can *really* get his point across.

-BACKGROUND-

Edward Blades started out in the gutter. Just another skinny, starving kid in the sprawl. He learned to use a knife when he was four, learned to use a synthlink when he was eight. Now he's pretty good with both.

A corporate record label picked him up when he was fifteen, looking for the next big thing to hype. They made him into a clown, a comic mockery of punk culture. A skinny kid from the barrens screaming about violence and frustration was always good for a laugh.

Eddie didn't care, he just wanted to play. Then he cut open a bouncer during a gig, and suddenly he wasn't so funny anymore.

Once Eddie's razor-hard image stopped being a joke and started scaring people, his career flatlined. His record label dropped him back in the gutter where they found him, but kept the rights to all his music. He doesn't care, he hated those drekheads anyway. Besides, Eddie's awakened now, and ready to carve out a place for himself in the shadows.

-REPUTATION-

Street Cred: 0
Noteriety: 3
Public Awareness: 1

-NOTES-



Karma: 42

Like I said, it's not finished, but a force 8 ally spirit in your body and another force 8 in your straightrazor make for fragging doom in close combat.

I used him in the Chicago run from Feral cities--we won. Completed all the objectives with no losses on our side. You're not supposed to be able to win that one.
Tyro
Looks painful... if you live long enough to register the pain, that is smile.gif
Beetle
I had tons of fun with a high strength & agility Troll Power Throw Adept. Sprinkle with Attribute Boost (strength), Attribute Boost (Agility), Power Throw 3, Missile Mastery, and Improved Ability Throwing Weapons and you've got a CQC guy with a base damage code often much higher than assault cannons and range to boot.
Tyro
QUOTE (Beetle @ Jan 31 2009, 04:36 PM) *
I had tons of fun with a high strength & agility Troll Power Throw Adept. Sprinkle with Attribute Boost (strength), Attribute Boost (Agility), Power Throw 3, Missile Mastery, and Improved Ability Throwing Weapons and you've got a CQC guy with a base damage code often much higher than assault cannons and range to boot.

Add a few ranks in Chemistry (either Knowledge or the optional Active Skill version) and coat your knives/shuriken with instant-effect injection-vector poison for even more fun!
Beetle
QUOTE (Tyro @ Jan 31 2009, 08:06 PM) *
Add a few ranks in Chemistry (either Knowledge or the optional Active Skill version) and coat your knives/shuriken with instant-effect injection-vector poison for even more fun!

and what's even more fun about a power throw adept is that throwing a weapon is a simple action, not a complex action like smashing a mook in the face. for that extra piece of silly damage code if you can some how talk you GM into letting you throw a hand full of ball bearings to get burst and full auto damage, watch you team mates jaws hit the floor when you tell them how much damage you're doing. *evil laugh*

This will usually result within short order the GM having an airstrike called on you once he realizes how much damage you can dish out, but it will be fun while it lasts.
Tyro
That's it, I'm building a thrower. Right now. Any tips?

Troll shotput, anyone?

Actually, I think I'll go Ork; I HATE the Troll's reduced Agility, and I don't need the Reach for this build.
Beetle
QUOTE (Tyro @ Jan 31 2009, 08:26 PM) *
That's it, I'm building a thrower. Right now. Any tips?

Troll shotput, anyone?

Actually, I think I'll go Ork; I HATE the Troll's reduced Agility, and I don't need the Reach for this build.

Just remember power throw was changed in the Street Magic errata so you can only take 3 ranks now. 6 ranks, is just awesome, that how I had the character set up initially. just mix and match the powers from the list I rattled earlier. You may want to add in the quick draw power as well. then as much thrown as you care for, specialize in some kind of thrown. up your agility and strength and you should be good to go.
Tyro
Screw Quick Draw, I'm taking Krav Maga nyahnyah.gif
Kazuhiro
Mechanically:

-High Infiltration pool
-Gecko gloves
-Camo suit or the Physical Camoflage spell
-Traceless Walk
-Improved Invisibility

This is the best way I've found so far to be completely invisible. If there's a way to hide from Assensing, olfactory sensors, and proximity wires, please let me know. My character wants it.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Kazuhiro @ Mar 11 2010, 08:59 AM) *
This is the best way I've found so far to be completely invisible. If there's a way to hide from Assensing, olfactory sensors, and proximity wires, please let me know. My character wants it.
The Metamagic techniques of Masking and Extended Masking would help.
Kazuhiro
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 11 2010, 11:24 AM) *
The Metamagic techniques of Masking and Extended Masking would help.
But then they just assense that "Oh, the person sneaking up on me only has a magic rating of FOUR, not six..."
pbangarth
Or... "Oh, it's just a [inset innocuous astral entity] floating by." I know, a stretch, but it is possible. And one must remember that being astrally aware over a long period of time makes one vulnerable as well as aware. Chances are a person is not going to stay in that state for hours on end. So, maybe, one can adapt the Masking to cover the aware periods?

Also remember that Infiltration can be used astrally as well.
Kazuhiro
This character, being a Mystic Adept, elected not to take the Astral Perception power, and so has no ability for astral combat or astral reconnaissance. That said, what's this about using Infiltration astrally?
pbangarth
QUOTE (SR4A page 191)
Like physical perception, a character using astral perception
should not need to make a test to see things that are immediately
obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means
that most astral forms are easily noticed). An actual test should only
be called for when an astral being is specifically trying to hide, or
when a character is trying to astrally observe in detail; in both these
situations, an Assensing Test is made.
(emphasis mine)
On the astral plane, there are 'visibility' modifiers that include barriers, distance, etc. just as there are on the physical plane. An entity trying to hide is using the Infiltration Skill to make use of opportunities available in the environment to escape detection.
Creel
I made a seriously scary unarmed melee adapt with penetrating strike, critical strike, counter strike, the martial arts maneuvers riposte and finishing move, and lots of dodge. Traceless walk lots of stealth and infiltration. If he gets the drop on you, you're toast. damn near guaranteed.
dirkformica
For those with access to spirits, remember that the Concealment power "also allows dual natured critters to conceal themselves and others from astral detection." So that's potentially a nice chunk of Perception/Assensing dice knocked off your opponent's pool.
Whipstitch
Cybermancy up in this thread.

Anyway, I tend to make such characters orks or even trolls if I don't plan on making Disguise and such a part of the overall package. You'll have more options if your Infiltrator is an exceptional athlete and trogs are hard to beat in that area even if they do have a smidge less agility and reaction. Of course, Synthacardium is such an efficient piece of 'ware that going with a meta might be overkill.
Umidori
QUOTE (Kazuhiro @ Mar 11 2010, 08:59 AM) *
This is the best way I've found so far to be completely invisible. If there's a way to hide from Assensing, olfactory sensors, and proximity wires, please let me know. My character wants it.

Scent Masking Cigarette, Arsenal P. 64
Olfactory Camouflage, Arsenal P. 83

As for capacitance wire, also known as proximity wire, I feel it's a load of bullshit.

The system could work in one of two ways. 1) Passive operation - in which the electrical field of a metahuman passes over the sensing wires. Our bioelectric fields hardly extend half an inch from us, much less 70 inches, through highly insulating air. The wire would have to be physically brushed past, and it would need to be free of insulation in order to be sensitive enough to work, and thus vulnerable to electrical bleeding and noise. It just can't work passively.

2) Active operation - in which the wire is strongly charged and creates a magnetic field which is then disturbed when a metahuman passes through it. Once again, it would have to lack insulation and thus would be sensitive to interference. That very sensitivity would necessitate computerized analysis of any detected fluctuations in the wire's magnetic field, so you wouldn't get countless false alarms from changing atmospheric conditions, leaves blowing past in the wind, animals sniffing at the fence, or whatever else.

Based on this thinking, I would argue that something like a Nonconductivity armor mod would offer bonuses against this sort of system. After all, if most of your body's surface is about as insulating as the air around you, the deviations are harder to positively ID as a true alarm. Unless you're dealing with proximity wiring in a tightly controlled, air sealed, electrically insulated area, you can't just jump at every single minor variation in the electrical field. There are just too many naturally occuring deviations.

~Umidori
knasser
QUOTE (raggedhalo @ Jan 28 2009, 09:53 AM) *
If you go the magical route, I suggest a magician (or perhaps mystical adept) of a possession tradition, probably voodoo.



I really can't disagree with this enough, if you're playing with a GM that knows their magic rules and is willing to enforce them. Possession is powerful, but it's a tool that requires more precision than you think. If you want a magical melee type that isn't an adept, then I'd focus on a magician using touch attack spells and some personal enhancement magic. Concealment from spirits is useful, but other than that I'd be tempted to skip summoning and binding all together. You'll need the skill points for combat skills. The nice thing about touch range spells is that the drain is fantastically low and they can bypass armour. The downside of not being an adept is that you wont be focusing on weapon foci which are great. Still, you should be able to make a pretty dangerous character this way and the supplementary magics you can use, e.g. Levitate, Improved Invisibility, etc. will be very useful.

K.
Red-ROM
Magic Ninja

stun ball, invisibility, ninja weapons. burn a magic point for cyber speed. go aspected scorcerer and skip all the summoning skills. put those points to fighting skills and get a ton of spells
pbangarth
QUOTE (knasser @ Mar 13 2010, 08:00 AM) *
I really can't disagree with this enough, if you're playing with a GM that knows their magic rules and is willing to enforce them. Possession is powerful, but it's a tool that requires more precision than you think.
I concur. I have fun with possession, but many pitfalls show up after you start playing that are not discussed in the text. The result is that using possession requires a great deal more planning than one might expect.

Just one example: The summoner needs to balance his stats so that he is mentally tough enough to handle the Drain, but not so tough that he resists the spirit's attempt to possess him. Failing the second means waiting a day or starting over with a new spirit. Starting over doubles the chance of Drain damage. You might consider having Health spells that increase the appropriate mental Attributes (but then take into account Drain possibility from those, using Drain stats you have kept low so you won't resist the possession, plus issues of sustaining) and then consider dropping them when the Summoning is done so you are mentally weaker. But what other spells could you have had instead?

Another: Energy Aura is fun. But what if you don't want to set fire to the floor with every step as you enter the facility? Ah! get possessed just when you need it? Well, hell. Being shot and injured at least will make it easier for the spirit to possess you!
knasser
The Energy Aura is a good catch. Shame if you've only got a Fire spirit bound and the run leads you into an area filled with combustibles or you're carrying Ex-Ex ammo; shame if you need to use your close combat skills in a public bar, restaurant or whatever: "Did the suspect have any distinguishing traits?" Well, there was the fact that he was surrounded by a perpetual wind storm (Air spirit)

But the most annoying thing with using possession spirits to make yourself tough is the delay. The enemy jumps you and first thing that happens is that your friend the samurai fires off two bursts. You command your bound spirit to possess you. Next phase, your samurai buddy fires off another couple of bursts and your spirit takes possession of you. Third phase, that samurai gets off his fifth and sixth attacks and you get to charge into melee. That's another thing - most enemies in Shadowrun will attack from range so you'll have to get yourself in melee, but if the enemy did charge straight into hand to hand with you, then those enemies have just had a good couple of phases to beat you up before you get into combat mode.

Another issue is the cost. Bullets are cheap. Grenades are cheap. Even whole guns are cheap, in comparison to binding materials. If you want a Force 4 spirit on hand to boost you up when needed, that's 2,000 you'll pay out. A lot of money for one or two fights. I've had my group on runs for only 5,000 each. Does the character really want to blow nearly half their pay on spirits before they even get started? There are a number of other problems also.

This sounds like I consider possession based traditions a really bad deal. I don't. I think they're actually quite well balanced against Materialisation traditions. But they require a great deal more thought than people think at first glance.

I will say that I allow people to deliberately fail possession rolls if they wish to, unlike pbangarth. That may not be explicit RAW, but it seems fair to me if you regard a possession attempt as a battle of wills. Though if you regarded it as increasing difficulty in managing more powerful minds, it would make sense not to allow one to fail. But I normally flavour opposed rolls as some sort of contest.

K.

K.
Whipstitch
Yeah, I'm a pretty shameless min-maxer when it comes to playing Mages and ultimately I find that the sheer convenience of the Materialization traditions often trumps the raw durability and prowess vs. hard targets that Possession can bring to the table. One of the benefits of being a skilled summoner is the ability to exert your influence multiple places at once, and Possession makes that process more unwieldy. It's pretty common that I just want a modest force spirit to pop in, provide Guard, and to stay the hell out of the way. Possession makes that a pain.
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