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Well, in a previous post I was asking about the various ways to get a character's role fufilled... After some great ideas I've decided upon an adept with some bio-ware. I'm looking for some help on how to build this concept, get the most bang for my buck as it were... first off let me say that our GM has given us a total of 470 build points, and an additional 30 points that can only be used for skills/skill groups.

Now a little something about the toon and the campaign in general. It will take place (or at least start) in Hong Kong. The party is made up of 3 players, a technomancer/face, a shaman focused on investigation, and myself who'll be the gun-bunny CQC/Infiltration. The character himself is an elf (and i need to factor that into final points), born in Hong Kong by two UCAS citizens (thus he looks western but was born and raised in China). Parents wanted him to absorb the culture and thus had him attend schools outside of corp/government control (public schools), but looking as if he was a foreigner he's got a hard time fitting in (gets into fights a lot). Some time in his late teens his parents are murdered by one of the Triads, and he has taken it onto himself to figure out who killed them, and get revenge. Turns to shadow running out of necessity to pay the bills, and to get him connected and closer to his goal.

As for skills I see him being a gun bunny, but having some prowess in either unarmed or clubs (smack people with a melee-hardened pistol). He needs to have some infiltration and shadowing skill to help round out the party. I see him having some armorer as well to modify weapons (mostly pistols small arms).

I was thinking of taking "Type O System" out of Augmentation (pg. 20). Which basically allows regular grade bioware to act as delta (in essence costs). as I want some bio but don't want to take a huge hit to essence/magic.

I'm having a hard time finding a nice balance to make this character scary enough out the gate to survive and take down opponents, but not so bio heavy that i'm gimping my long-term magic/adept skill powers. What would you guys take in terms of bio/adept powers? Any help would be appreciated.
Most of the cool bioware doesn't actually work with type-O, as it's cultured. In particular synaptic booster 2, which is the single best buy for an adept (or mage who doesn't want to run F4 increase reflexes 24x7), doesn't get any bonus.

Unless you have a clear vision as to exactly what bioware you want and how it's worth 30 points I'd think hard about that, as it's what magic 6 costs.

If you want to be able to fight in hth I'd buy unarmed. It's a lot harder to think of times you won't have hands or feet than a sword or a club. If you have a gun and are at range and just want to hurt them I'd suggest a taser. Then you don't have to worry about getting in a wrestling match.
QUOTE (kzt @ Feb 1 2009, 04:07 AM) *
Most of the cool bioware doesn't actually work with type-O, as it's cultured. In particular synaptic booster 2, which is the single best buy for an adept (or mage who doesn't want to run F4 increase reflexes 24x7), doesn't get any bonus.

Where are you getting that interpretation? As far as I've read from Augmentation, it simply states that bio-ware (of any grade) acts as delta does. It also makes you a juicy target for organ leggers, and prevents you from buying used bio, but i don't see any thing about it saying it has to be cultured-bioware only.

That being said the bio i was looking at would be Synaptic Booster, Muscle Toner, Platelet Factory, and maybe Muscle Augmentation or Bone Density if I had essence to throw around.

With this toon i'd like to see him be a badass with guns (pistols), and able to be dangerous unarmed if needed.
The quality in question states that basic bioware is treated as if it were delta grade. Bioware comes in grades, like cyberware, but it also comes in two types - basic and cultured. So the quality only works for basic bioware - it explicitly states that.

If it wasn't for that, Type O system would be worth it, letting you cram lots of stuff in for the cost of only 1 point of Essense. Still, if you hard-max Magic, losing two points of Magic still leaves you with 4 power points - and your initiative and Agility boosts will be taken care of. Definitely worth it, for a 500-point game, since you can do that and still have enough points left to be good at both combat and stealth.
Oh yeah, go with the unarmed. My personal setup would be:

Synaptic Boosters 1(.5)
Muscle Toner 2(.4)
Muscle Augmentation 2(.4)
Synthacardium 1-3(what you can afford)-.1-.3

and still have 4 magic points. You can get Critical Strike level 4 with that, and Killing Hands/Elemental Strike to take care of the unarmed, and still have 3 more points for things like Improved Infiltration and other cool stuff.

As for doing unarmed damage, don't worry. With this setup:

5-6 Strength(for example)=base 3 damage
+4 Critical Strike
+2(example) Unarmed

You're guy will be smacking around for 9P damage. He can hurt people bad. Then, his high Agility will be awesome for his gunbunny skills. With 470 BP, it should not be a problem to get these stats at all(Body: 4 Agility: 5-6, Reaction: 4, Strength: 3-4, etc.)
If you play an Elf and want to be a Gun Bunny ,you need AGI ! There are 3 Possibilities to raise your AGI to a nat. 10 :Surge,exc. Attribute and Genetic improvement.With Muscle augment 4 and .Suprathyroid Gland you can reach the Top of AGI 15. But you should talk to your GM before going there (its the Road to Powergaming)
A real Gunbunny also knows Firefight and is Ambidextrous
Weather Type O(wen) works for Cultured Bioware or not,its still a good Idea :
Muscle Improve,Suprat.Gland,Synthacard (for Acrobatics),Bone enhancement (for Melee)
You should take Syn.Booster anyway . best Bargain (ImO)

has that ever been really clearly stated?
the part with the Type-O? cultured bio comes in grades normal to delta too . .
the only real distinction in normal and cultured is like in cyber the difference between head and bodyware . .
Type O System

...Off the rack, basic bioware is considered delta grade for purposes of interacting with a type O body (ie reduce Essense Costs by half, though nuyen prices remain the same)...

Under p303 SR4, there is no such thing as a "basic" grade, there is standard, alpha, beta and delta. Basic bioware is not specifically refered to as such until we look at p171 Aug. There, there is a list of what constitutes basic bioware.
Kzt, you're thinking of the SR3 rules. Cultured bioware is no longer a grade. Basic bioware can no longer be upgraded to cultured bioware. Instead, both kinds come in the same grades as cyberware, with the same cost multipliers. If I understand correctly, the distinction between basic and cultured bioware is simply that cultured bioware has to be grown for a specific user, regardless of grade, and cannot be transplanted at all. If you look at the lists you will notice that cultured bioware is the stuff which meshes with the nervous system, and basic is everything else.
What is the header of the bioware table on page 338? "Basic Bioware". What does page 20 say gains the advantage? "Off the rack, basic bioware". Cultured bioware is specially grown for the person, it's both not basic bioware, it's also not "off the rack".

It's not a grade, it's a class. You don't gain type O advantage on bioware that is explicitly grown for you based on your cells. Which is what the "cultured" in cultured bioware means. See definition on page 339. It's already fully compatible to you.

It's a nice advantage, but it's not insane.
then someone please explain to me again how cultured bio gets to be alpha, beta, delta and get the same advantages?
It's magic! Damned if I know. I don't write the rules.
The Neutronium Alchemist
[Waves hands]

It's probably the quality of the genengineering that's going on. Sure the stuff's cultured from your cells but its still got to be poked and prodded to do what's needed and that means that there's going to be some genetic variation in any product. Not enough to set off your immune system but enough to just off set the quality by a tiny amount. The more care taken over the process, the more tests run on the gene sequence during the growth process, the more base growths binned and started from scratch the higher the rating of the final cultured bioware.

[/Waves hand]
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Feb 1 2009, 01:00 PM) *
then someone please explain to me again how cultured bio gets to be alpha, beta, delta and get the same advantages?

for more Money you get even better results.
A Taylor made Suit in India fits,is of good quality and is Cheap (basic cultured ware),a Taylor made Suit in ....Germany(f.E.) costs more and is of better Quality(Beta cultured ware)
Thats how i see it

Ok, well for the sake of this post topic, allow me to re-direct back onto the topic of how to balance adept powers/magic with bioware, and lets go under the assumption that Type O System is not apart of the build.
Spend a point of essence on two more IPs. It's far more essence/magic effective than any other option to get you 3 IPs. Which is essential for a gun bunny.

Alternately, build a mage to get the two IPs via magic, and then buy gun skill. You need to be able to routinely get 3 successes, which means you need min 9 dice and min magic of 3. You can get more 'cool stuff' with an adept, but stunballs, astral perception, astral projection, warding, countermagic and summoning spirits are actually more useful that clever hand-to-hand stuff.
For an adept using bioware to boost their natural abilities, synaptic booster: 2, while expensive, gives you 2 IPs at the cost of a single point of Magic loss - essentially saving you 2 power points, since it normally costs 3 power points for the equivalent power. The disadvantage is that, in addition to buying up your Magic, you also need to buy 32 points of resources to buy the synaptic booster. For a 500 BP game, though, you will have the points.

For a gunslinging adept, I would further recommend muscle toner: 4 (bought with the restricted gear quality), a reflex recorder (alphaware) for your main ranged weapon, and cybereyes: 2 (alpha) with low-light, flare compensation, smartlink, and vision magnification. If you take Magic: 6, you will still have 4 points left, which can get you plenty of other things.

That's if you're going all out to make him a combat badass, though. For a less extreme version (or if it is a less high-powered campaign), you could have synaptic booster: 1, muscle toner: 2, and a reflex recorder, along with a base Magic of 5 (which will be reduced to 4), for less toughness, but around 40 build points saved to spend on other things.
Hi at work so i cant read all previous posts so if i duplicate someone elses posts ...

10 pts Compatability either Bio or Cyber to drop the costs to fit more crap in your body
10 Pts Martial arts either Kickboxing or Boxing this can give you 2 DV in close combat - pick boxing and you can get additional 1DV from hardliner gloves
5 pts restricted gear -

if you feel real nasty
10 pts Martial arts Krav Maga and get the ready weapon free action and Aim as a fee action

Bioware, stick in 4 levels of bonelacing giving 4pts body for damage resistance and 3DV to unarmed totalnow(6+str/2) if boxing
Agility 2 levels
enhanced reflexes +1 to all physical skills
suprathyroid - +1 to all physical attributes restricted gear edge required

Wired reflexes lvl2 Alpha

all the usual bits of ware like cybereyes and Smartlinks/data jacks

As your a gunmonkey you can spend less on your contacts tou gain a couple of pts and focus on your skills, id put about 180 in attributes and at least 2 in edge

Edit : Im an idiot missed the adept part

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