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hyzmarca
Little Lost Robot

It feels strange, being dead. You get used to it, eventually, but you never forget those first few days.

Back then, I'd spend hours just staring at my hand, the flesh one, flexing it, examining its movements, counting the lines, and pontificating the nature of existence. Was I me? Was I it? Was I flesh and blood, neurons and synapses, animated by an amnesiac demon as Simon described it? Or was I spirit and soul, an amnesiac demon wearing a suit of flesh and thought. I didn't know. I still don't know. But back then I actually cared.

Death isn't a painful thing. Before I died, I was no stranger to pain. I had half my body cut off and replaced with metal so that I could dish out more of it, and every surgery hurt worst than the last. The parts of me that were still flesh were riddled with scars, from bullets, knives, and burns. But death was just a single punch. My skull hurt his hand more than it his hand hurt my head; it was barely uncomfortable. And yet that punch set off a chain reaction of swelling and bleeding that left my higher functions intact, along with my memories, but destroyed those portions of my brain that hold my heart to beat and my diaphragm to draw air into my lungs. I didn't even notice it.

Simon tried to keep the medical records from me; he was always controlling and manipulative like that. But I found them, he wasn't very good at hiding things; he was too book smart and not enough street smart. The doctors were able to get my heart and lungs going again, but by then it was too late. "Spirit Death" they called it. I was physically all there, but some metaphysical component that let all of my parts work together, to move around and walk and talk, to think toughts and feel emotions, that was gone. Their only solution was to remove life support. Simon, however, was more radical in his approach to things, and a very skilled magician in his own right. A few bribes kept them from issuing a death certificate and allowed him to take my corpse home with rented life-support equipment.

And so I just sat there, staring at my hand, for hours at a time.

I knew that I was different, but I didn't understand how different I was. Some of it was obvious; I saw everything differently, there was a whole new beautiful frightening world overlaid onto that I knew all my life. Others, were less so; Simon had given me skills and knowledge that he felt would be useful, but I really didn't know what I could do or what I knew until I tried. The first time I identified a 2,000 nuyen bottle of wine by taste was far more frightening than the first time I saw a ghost zipping through my bedroom.

I had powers, too, and those came in handy on my runs. I was stronger, faster, and smarter than ever before. I knew how to cast spells, even one that would make me fly. And I could do other things, too. One time I just walked around this laboratory waving at everyone I saw and telling everyone that "these aren't the droids you are looking for". I must have had at least fifty people wondering around looking for droids without knowing why.

But I really didn't understand how different I was until Simon made me mad one day and I was about to smack him upside the head. But I didn't. It wasn't that I stopped myself. My brain was telling my fist to plant itself behind his face. It's just that my fist wasn't moving. I could do anything else, I could smash anything else. I just couldn't hit him.

Simon laughed and explained it to me. A side effect of the procedure that he used to revive me. I was his Ally, and as such I couldn't do anything to harm him, no matter how much I wanted to. He explained something else to me too, that I couldn't disobey him, no matter how much I wanted to. But he didn't take advantage of that, not immediately.

I knew one thing, though; I didn't like being what I was. I didn't have the guts to kill myself, but I wasn't going to let Simon bring me back a second time if another run went bad, not like this. So I called a called my street doc and asked him if he had any cranial bombs, area effect; if some bastard killed me again I wanted it be be the last thing he did. The surgery was quick and easy, the doc connected the bomb to my biomonitor and set it to go off if I died. It would obliterate my brain leaving nothing for Simon to salvage, and it would kill anyone nearby. That was the plan, anyway, but while I was on the table, I though about Simon, about what he told me, and I had the doc add a second setting, just in case.

The inevitable happened after a run. When we got back to the hideout Simon ordered me to strip. I look at him like he was I mad man, but my body moved on it's own accord, deftly removing my clothes. I screamed at him, but I couldn't stop myself. I yelled and I spat as his hands roamed over my body. I told him that he'd die if he did that to me. He just told me to shut up; and I did. And I did everything else he told me to do.

The funny thing about being an Ally Spirit is that weapons don't have much effect on you unless they're magical. I was surprised to learn that this is true even when they're implanted in your skull. It took months of recuperation and dozens of surgeries to rebuild my face, but I survived. Simon did not fair so well. And now I have a little joke about how I have explosive orgasms.
crash2029
Damn.

Just, damn.

Constructive Criticism: make it longer.

And for the record: Damn.
Tomothy
Very nice!
Kanada Ten
A nice vignette, though there's a strange typo in the second to last paragraph.
darthmord
This is just another reason why you should always be nice to your Ally spirits. vegm.gif
Warentester
Nice story. I like the perspective and the kind of distant description as if the main character is reporting about someone else.
Rehlor
You all must have much better ratings in "Suspension of disbelief" than I do.

So the bomb that killed someone standing next to you left your head even somewhat intact. Seriously? What did the bomb kill him with - bad attitude and a scary pop?

About Simon, our mage/playboy antagonist - he has money and magic, but his master plan is to rape a woman who's "had half [her] body cut off and replaced with metal" and "the parts of [her] that were still flesh were riddled with scars." Maybe if you wrote in some previous history with him to start with, like a friend of a friend who wanted more, or something, but as it stands it's extremely far fetched. Does Simon usually haunt hospitals looking for half dead folk, hoping to find one suitable for his eternal slavery/rape scheme?

The Star Wars reference is jarring, to put it mildly. The bit about the wine needs to be toned down too. Surprising or startling would be far more appropriate than "scary."

It's decent writing, though. Needs expansion, polish, and a new climax/denouement.
Warentester
Well, I guess the main Problem with the climax is, that it is difficult to imagine, how an immunity to mundane weapons might work.

The to make the rape more plausible it seems sufficient to make the temptation of the power he has more obvious. The possibility of easily achievalbe pleasures compared to the problems to find someone as a partner.

I agree with Rehlor that the story needs polishing, but I still like the idea.
darthmord
Some of you folks just have no idea of artistic license. A powerful magical being has a bomb go off inside them. Mundane weapons have little to no effect on decently powerful magic, especially spirits since they have ITNW.

The way it is described, the bomb went off, blew out part of the face/head, and killed Simon. At the same time, it also damaged the body of the Ally but did NOT kill / disrupt it. That combination is NOT unlikely. Spirits are tough and an Inhabiting Ally gets to add its Force to the body's stats. This makes it fast, smart, and tough. It's not unreasonable this makes the Ally tougher than Simon.
Rehlor
Artistic license goes a long way towards no one asking why Simon wasn't smart enough to command her to never do him harm or do anything that could lead to him being harmed. That's artistic license.

Artistic license doesn't cover high explosive grenades going off inside your very mushy brain, destroying part of your very solid skull, killing the person next to you, and leaving you not only alive but in a state it's possible to recover from. That's roll your eyes and change the channel territory.
Rotbart van Dainig
The premise of the story is that you can conjure a dead person as ally spirit and let it inhabit it's former body.

That just raises the issue why people would go to all the trouble of cybermancy if it was that easy.
darthmord
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb 3 2009, 10:17 AM) *
The premise of the story is that you can conjure a dead person as ally spirit and let it inhabit it's former body.

That just raises the issue why people would go to all the trouble of cybermancy if it was that easy.


Well, as I recall Magic in SR is based on belief. Perhaps Simon truly believed he could conjure the dead. Do we know for certain that he did? Does Simon? Does the Ally? No we (nor Simon or the Ally) do not know for certain. While the memory imprints may still be in the brain, we can never be certain the animating force inhabiting the body is in fact the same one that was the original owner.

But as we are the sum of our experiences, it's not a great leap to make the assumption that any other animating force (a possibly blank slate one at that) upon integrating with the body and those memories takes on the same mannerisms, behavior, and demeanor as the original life force. It's been written in the various books regarding magic & spirits that some spirits have been around a VERY long time while others know nothing and appear to have been just created at the time of summoning.

As for the cranial bomb... It's not unlikely the Ally survived it. Remember that ItNW? Even if the explosion was strong enough to overcome that, there's still the damage resistance test. Perhaps it only blew out part of skull (and happened to kill Simon in the process) but left much of it intact. The point is, regardless of circumstances, the Ally survived the cranial bomb. No mention of disruption or whatnot so... the damage must not have been into max physical meter or into overflow. Thus, the explosion was strong enough to kill Simon but only severely injure the Ally.

Before you poo-poo that suggestion, keep in mind that Inhabitation lets the spirit add its Force to the physical form's (in this case, a life-supported vegetable body) attributes. That will make the Ally's body much higher than normal, especially since the body was already augmented. It would be a rather tough target to kill.

But, what about the cranial bomb? Those always kill, right? Nothing in life (or death) is ever guaranteed. Perhaps the doctor screwed up the installation, maybe had sympathy for the Ally, maybe it malfunctioned, whatever. The point is, the Ally survived somehow and came out on top.

How about folks just enjoy a story for what it is, a story. Picking apart details because they don't jive with how/what *you* think SR should work is kind of low. You guys aren't tossing up your own short stories. I enjoy reading them because I lack that ability to write creative and well-written stories. I very rarely get the level of inspiration necessary to write a good yarn. But I'll happily indulge other people's desires to write them as a reader.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ Feb 2 2009, 03:44 PM) *
A nice vignette, though there's a strange typo in the second to last paragraph.


Thanks, it has been fixed.


QUOTE (Rehlor @ Feb 2 2009, 05:03 PM) *
You all must have much better ratings in "Suspension of disbelief" than I do.

So the bomb that killed someone standing next to you left your head even somewhat intact. Seriously? What did the bomb kill him with - bad attitude and a scary pop?

Have you ever seen a race car crash? When a race car crashes, it tears apart, literally, almost like butter. It's designed to do this, to direct energy away from the passenger compartment, which is fairly sturdy. The rapidly expanding gases produced by an explosive detonating travel along the path of least resistance. And when you're dealing with INTW 12, that's usually away from vital organs.

I admit, that that was the weakest part of the story, but it was also the most important, as it provides the thematic link back to it's Asimov namesake.

QUOTE
About Simon, our mage/playboy antagonist - he has money and magic, but his master plan is to rape a woman who's "had half [her] body cut off and replaced with metal" and "the parts of [her] that were still flesh were riddled with scars." Maybe if you wrote in some previous history with him to start with, like a friend of a friend who wanted more, or something, but as it stands it's extremely far fetched. Does Simon usually haunt hospitals looking for half dead folk, hoping to find one suitable for his eternal slavery/rape scheme?

You're not reading carefully enough. I chose a minimalist approach, but I did include that piece vital information in the third paragraph first sentence. It is up to you do determine how long they've know each other and the exact nature of their relationship, other than being non-sexual, but it is apparent that they'd know each other for some time before The Protagonist's transformation. I imagine them to have been friends, partners, close despite Simon's douchebaggery because the Protagonist is just as much of a douchebag.

QUOTE
The Star Wars reference is jarring, to put it mildly. The bit about the wine needs to be toned down too. Surprising or startling would be far more appropriate than "scary."

What exactly is jarring about the reference, that Star Wars has remained popular sixty three years into the future or the sheer number of people that The Protagonist has looking for droids? There are four facts that the reference establishes about The Protagonist if you read behind the lines.
The wine thing needs to be toned up, really. I originally intended to play up how incredibly disturbing and frightening it is to have someone force new skills and abilities on you without your consent. But it didn't flow out that way. I do need to correct that.


There is a reason I kept it minimal. I want people to fill in the blanks themselves. I want people to look at single sentences and extrapolate entire worlds from them. If you notice, I didn't even give The Protagonist a gender. You just assume that The Protagonist is female, and that's alright. But you seem to also be extrapolating in ways that don't match what I've written. Maybe that is my fault, maybe not. In some spots it probably is.

QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb 3 2009, 10:17 AM) *
The premise of the story is that you can conjure a dead person as ally spirit and let it inhabit it's former body.

That just raises the issue why people would go to all the trouble of cybermancy if it was that easy.


QUOTE (darthmord @ Feb 3 2009, 12:01 PM) *
Well, as I recall Magic in SR is based on belief. Perhaps Simon truly believed he could conjure the dead. Do we know for certain that he did? Does Simon? Does the Ally? No we (nor Simon or the Ally) do not know for certain. While the memory imprints may still be in the brain, we can never be certain the animating force inhabiting the body is in fact the same one that was the original owner.


It is explicitly stated that it is not the same animating force. The term "amnesiac demon" is used for a reason. Simon has no delusions about bringing souls back from the dead.
Rehlor
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Feb 3 2009, 05:34 PM) *
Have you ever seen a race car crash? When a race car crashes, it tears apart, literally, almost like butter. It's designed to do this, to direct energy away from the passenger compartment, which is fairly sturdy. The rapidly expanding gases produced by an explosive detonating travel along the path of least resistance. And when you're dealing with INTW 12, that's usually away from vital organs.


A race car wrecking doesn't even remotely resemble a bomb going off in your head. I can't even begin to grasp what sort of logic would connect the two, unless maybe we were having a discussion on how a force acting on the exterior of an object has vastly different physics than an explosion inside one.

Were we having a discussion on how a force acting on the exterior of an object has vastly different physics than an explosion inside one?

Moving on - your brain is a vital organ. Your brain is where the cranial bomb sits. The path of least resistance for said bomb is going to very much be through your brain.

I'm sure this is the part where all sorts of rules foolishness will come into play, so I'd like to remind you in advance that a normal cranial bomb, which is significantly smaller than the area bomb, has no damage code because it instantly kills you.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Feb 3 2009, 06:34 PM) *
The term "amnesiac demon" is used for a reason.

The point is that it remembers not only the pain of the implant surgery, but it's personality is formed enough to object to being a slave, especially concerning sexuality - to the point of rather dying.

While ally spirits may develop an aversion against the former due to mistreatment, they wouldn't really care about the latter, specifically.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb 3 2009, 01:39 PM) *
The point is that it remembers not only the pain of the implant surgery, but it's personality is formed enough to object to being a slave, especially concerning sexuality - to the point of rather dying.

While ally spirits may develop an aversion against the former due to mistreatment, they wouldn't really care about the latter, specifically.


There may be some philosophical debate about the nature of flesh forms, how much of the new being is the original and how much is the spirit. I meant to invoke this. But it is clear that the flesh form is not the original but it is also not the spirit, when the host body is destroyed the spirit loses the host's memories, skills, and personality traits. If the spirit is a true blank slate, with no personality of it's own and thus nothing of it's own personality to bring to the merge, the result would, naturally, predominantly have the host's personality.
Rotbart van Dainig
The philosophical debate would be about how much 'personality' is created by memories alone - the flesh form transfer only mentions memories, abilities and skills. (The abilities part opens a can of worms concerning resonance abilities tied to the body... only possession prohibits this.)

IMHO, the spirit of the merge would retain it's personality, even if newborn and pretty blank - while at the same time remembering some elses live. Which would be even more disturbing.
WeaverMount
I really enjoyed this story. I think it's the only thread that has dealt with "summoning the dead" that didn't make me groan.

I have to second the objection to the star wars reference. From a how many pop culture references can you make from 1907? ... ... actually there is a good chance you can, but I think you get my point. A New Hope is would be 93 years old in 2070, not to mention the lose of culture relevance it being 2D, non interactive work with no emotive tracks. I know people smart cultured people that I have to badger into watching black and white movies. IMO 2070 people will almost no pop culture over lap. I'm pretty sure Shakespeare and the Qur'an will still be around about that's about it.
More importantly though, it hurts immersion for me. Your story is a fictitious space, star wars is a factious space, and they run on the sectors of ram in my head if you will. Merely mentioning star wars creates a thought in my mind that competes for resources with one of your chief aims. Maybe this is a failing on my part, but hey I am some percent of your audience.

Also about the rape I think it was adequately for shadowed. The Ally had the bomb condition set. That isn't something you do if you aren't expecting it ... unless maybe you have a serious horrible past experience(s) with rape.

about the damage at the in it's totally conceivable mechanically. The ally likely had a body well beyond human augmax. Also if you from the "half metal" line I think it's reasonable to assume 3 limbs for another 3 boxes of P. The character likely had around 18 boxes of P. More importantly though the spirit doesn't have vital organs. A head shot doesn't necessarily instantly slay a spirit.
Rehlor
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Feb 3 2009, 09:06 PM) *
about the damage at the in it's totally conceivable mechanically. The ally likely had a body well beyond human augmax. Also if you from the "half metal" line I think it's reasonable to assume 3 limbs for another 3 boxes of P. The character likely had around 18 boxes of P. More importantly though the spirit doesn't have vital organs. A head shot doesn't necessarily instantly slay a spirit.


I'm terribly interested to know what would lead you to believe that having a mechanical foot would keep you alive longer if your brain was pulverized to the consistency of oatmeal and sprayed across the walls like a modern art masterpiece.

Again, this isn't anything like a race car hitting a wall, and it isn't anything like a bullet hitting you in the skull - This is a high explosive nestled in the squishy mess of some completely defenseless gray matter. Much like unprotected re-entry into the atmosphere or diving into a pool of lava with nothing but a speed-o on, this is one of those things that very clearly does not fall under abstract rules for combat. And again, the rules wank can take a hike since the item in question is quite clear on the "it goes boom, you die" part. No roll, no soak - you die.

It remains a bad ending simply because it's completely and utterly beyond suspension of disbelief. The writer puts emphasis on the body, to the point of bringing in life support, and then has the same character survive the utter destruction of the central nervous system with some reconstructive surgery.

estradling
QUOTE (Rehlor @ Feb 3 2009, 02:45 PM) *
I'm terribly interested to know what would lead you to believe that having a mechanical foot would keep you alive longer if your brain was pulverized to the consistency of oatmeal and sprayed across the walls like a modern art masterpiece.


I'd say its because while the head might have been blown across the walls... The spirit survived and recovered... Having a flesh and blood head (or cybered one) is an option for them not a requirement
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Rehlor @ Feb 3 2009, 04:45 PM) *
I'm terribly interested to know what would lead you to believe that having a mechanical foot would keep you alive longer if your brain was pulverized to the consistency of oatmeal and sprayed across the walls like a modern art masterpiece.

Again, this isn't anything like a race car hitting a wall, and it isn't anything like a bullet hitting you in the skull - This is a high explosive nestled in the squishy mess of some completely defenseless gray matter. Much like unprotected re-entry into the atmosphere or diving into a pool of lava with nothing but a speed-o on, this is one of those things that very clearly does not fall under abstract rules for combat. And again, the rules wank can take a hike since the item in question is quite clear on the "it goes boom, you die" part. No roll, no soak - you die.

It remains a bad ending simply because it's completely and utterly beyond suspension of disbelief. The writer puts emphasis on the body, to the point of bringing in life support, and then has the same character survive the utter destruction of the central nervous system with some reconstructive surgery.


You assume that the brain is squishy and defenseless. I assume that immunity to normal weapons of sufficient strength gives the brain the equivalent of Chobham armor, and thus the skull fails before the brain does, directing the blast outward. I'm also assuming that cranial bombs usually aren't designed to kill high-force Inhabitation spirits, and thus this one failed to perform as expected. Think of the character's face exploding outward like a claymore mine, but leaving ing a giant bloody hole behind which a fully intact brain is visible.
Rehlor
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Feb 3 2009, 10:12 PM) *
You assume that the brain is squishy and defenseless. I assume that immunity to normal weapons of sufficient strength gives the brain the equivalent of Chobham armor, and thus the skull fails before the brain does, directing the blast outward. I'm also assuming that cranial bombs usually aren't designed to kill high-force Inhabitation spirits, and thus this one failed to perform as expected. Think of the character's face exploding outward like a claymore mine, but leaving ing a giant bloody hole behind which a fully intact brain is visible.


That's just silly. You honestly want your reader to intuit that you believe ITNW would harden the brain to the point where a high explosive grenade wouldn't destroy damage it, but putting a bomb in it in the first place comes with no problems. Furthermore, that the skull surrounding said brain wouldn't see a parallel increase in durability. All this for a body that necessitated life support, and a bomb that the main character had implanted specifically to kill themselves, then had made even bigger to kill everyone around them.

Mm'kay.

Write as you will, but the ending remains completely unbelievable.
crash2029
@ hyzmarca

I actually wondered about the protagonist's gender throught the story. I still do. I may be in the minority but I have no problems with it thematically, factually or anything related to creativity. My only complaint is that I wish there were more. I would like to see the Protagonist's struggle with embracing newfound freedom and the search for personal meaning. I additionally did not pick up ay douchebag-ness from the protagonist. He/she was simply in a terribly hard situation and did whatever they could to assert control over his/her own destiny.

@ Rehlor

I fail to see the massive problem you have with the whole cortex bomb thing. Even if the explosive were to completely remove the head, so what? The body is merely a vessel. It's biological wellbeing has almost nothing to do with the health of the animus. Regardless of how many compromised vital organs there are, as long as the body is structurally sound I don't see a problem.
crash2029
QUOTE (Rehlor @ Feb 3 2009, 05:56 PM) *
That's just silly. You honestly want your reader to intuit that you believe ITNW would harden the brain to the point where a high explosive grenade wouldn't destroy damage it, but putting a bomb in it in the first place comes with no problems. Furthermore, that the skull surrounding said brain wouldn't see a parallel increase in durability. All this for a body that necessitated life support, and a bomb that the main character had implanted specifically to kill themselves, then had made even bigger to kill everyone around them.

Mm'kay.

Write as you will, but the ending remains completely unbelievable.


Something tells me the spirit did not know that even if it's body was disintegrated that it wouldn't be dead.
Tomothy
Like crash2029, I don't find the Inhabiting Spirit surviving an explosion in it's meat puppet body particularly unbelievable. I don't find the mix of spirit and dead person's memories problematic. I did assume that the character was male on my first read through, but I love that it's not clear.

I'm personally not a huge fan of the Star Wars reference, not because I'm against pop-culture references, but because it came across as slightly awkward for me (also there's a typo there). And I really liked the part about the wine tasting.
Sir_Psycho
Because the spirit has taken on the identity of the vessel.

Also, the text mentioned that the character knew some spells, right? Sounds a bit like it could be a barrier spell inbetween the bomb and the brain.

And finally, given the ITNW, even if the bomb wasn't on the outside edges of the brain, the blast could have been channelled through a safe part of the brain. Before you say "there is no safe part of the brain", let's not forget that people have survived javelins to the brain.
AngelisStorm
Rehlor, the answer is yes. ITNW does indeed make you unto like Superman at high levels. The grenade is going to take the path of least resistance. I don't really see what your problem is. It screwed up the main character's head, and took ALOT of rehab to get back to normal. There have been cases where ordinary people shot themselves in the head with the intent to die, and failed. This is simply the spirit equivelant.

So what's the problem. The explosive lost. As was already pointed out, the explosive was made to instantly kill a metahuman. This spirit is not a metahuman. It is tougher, can take more damage, can potentially ignore damage unto like Superman, and for goodness sakes it doesn't require internal organs! Humans think with their brains; spirits think with their spirit.
Rehlor
Yes, yes - The high explosive grenade damaged the "safe" part of the brain, shattered the skull, and killed the man next to them. Good catch with the barrier spell, though - I like that you talked yourself into believing that the spirit had a bomb implanted to kill itself, then used magic so it wouldn't die. And all this without even being written in the story.

And I agree with the guys who said the spirit can live without a head - Inhabited bodies just need a good push of will to keep going and nothing else. That's why life support was a key part of the story, because it was completely unnecessary. Also, facial reconstruction = having a whole new head, brains, eyes, teeth, et cetera put in. All of which are easy to attain while missing your head, I'm sure.


I think the reason you guys are having such an easier time suspending disbelief is because you can't remember what happened from one paragraph to the next.
Rehlor
QUOTE (AngelisStorm @ Feb 4 2009, 01:53 PM) *
Rehlor, the answer is yes. ITNW does indeed make you unto like Superman at high levels. The grenade is going to take the path of least resistance. I don't really see what your problem is. It screwed up the main character's head, and took ALOT of rehab to get back to normal.


I seriously wonder if you're reading what you write. Ok, let me try this again: Your brain = soft. Your Most people's skull = hard. Ok, now - which do you think will be the path of "least resistance" (remember, skull hard, brain soft). Got an answer yet?

And a cranial microbomb is made to kill a metahuman. A cranial area bomb is, once again, a high explosive grenade inside someones head. One makes a small pop and kills someone (no matter how many cyberfeet they have, WeaverMount), the other one is a big enough bang to turn you into a Islamic extremist in an Israeli coffee shop.

Here's your homework:

1) Someones skull is harder than their brain - True/False
2) A microbomb is a) bigger than b) the same as c) smaller than d) much smaller than a cranial area bomb?

Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Feb 3 2009, 11:12 PM) *
I assume that immunity to normal weapons of sufficient strength gives the brain the equivalent of Chobham armor, and thus the skull fails before the brain does, directing the blast outward.

There's just the problem that the skull would receive the same amount of protection from immunity to normal weapons.
So at the end of the day, it's still harder than the brain.
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (Rehlor @ Feb 4 2009, 10:01 AM) *
Yes, yes - The high explosive grenade damaged the "safe" part of the brain, shattered the skull, and killed the man next to them. Good catch with the barrier spell, though - I like that you talked yourself into believing that the spirit had a bomb implanted to kill itself, then used magic so it wouldn't die. And all this without even being written in the story.

Oh wow. You're being facetious. Can I call you champ? You're whining with increasing intensity and vitriol about your suspension of disbelief being broken, and we just want to help, Champ. We're trying to talk you into believing anything about this story where a dead male/female with bits of her body popped out and off and replaced with machine parts being possessed by a powerful spirit that lets him/her identify wine, see ghosts, quote star wars and fly through the air. Oh, I forgot to add "purge a grenade blast through his/her face" and "Be a vessel for thematic elements and the delivery of the ironic denouement". Magic did it, champ.

Sir_Psycho
Whoops, double post. I'm sure I don't have to repeat myself.
Rehlor
Aww, are you upset that you got called on your blatant hand-waving? It's ok. Your "safe parts of the brain" argument is still my favorite line of bullshit in the thread.
yukongil
it was an entertaining story and well written, it suffers only from a lack of fact-checking.

Beyond the fact that the Immunity would make the initial surgery a bitch and a half to perform, I would think that even if it was successful, the bomb would pop, the head would expand comically and then smoke would poor from the poor darlings ears, having no effect on the implantee or the rapist. Really though this depends on how you see Immunity working, is it bullet-bouncing ala Superman Immunity, or is it a type of Regeneration on a scale that no damage is ever inflicted. Personally I go for a mix of the two.

I also imagine that reconstructive surgery went "oddly";

Shadow clinic Nurse: "um, doctor...*barf*...there's a patient...*barf*... to um, see you."
Shadow clinic Doctor: *goes to see what the problem is* *faints, pukes and shites himself upon seeing faceless meatbag/cyber-zombie*
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE
Aww, are you upset that you got called on your blatant hand-waving? It's ok. Your "safe parts of the brain" argument is still my favorite line of bullshit in the thread.


I'm upset that you missed the point. That was that the more sarcastic and facetious you get, you contribute even less to the thread than you already were, no matter how authoritatively you shout your argument at everyone. As proof of concept, you might note that you completely ignored the content of my post, focusing only on the tone, and replying with more of the same tone, less content, and even a little swearing to really hammer in your superiority over some guy on the internet.

But because you fell into your own trap, no-one wants to listen to your insightful and constructive critique anymore, and bless your heart, it'll probably feel just like a victory for you. The rest of us will probably go and play a science fiction fantasy roleplaying game, and maintain our suspension of disbelief doing so, Champ.
Rehlor
QUOTE (yukongil @ Feb 4 2009, 06:34 PM) *
it was an entertaining story and well written, it suffers only from a lack of fact-checking.

Beyond the fact that the Immunity would make the initial surgery a bitch and a half to perform, I would think that even if it was successful, the bomb would pop, the head would expand comically and then smoke would poor from the poor darlings ears, having no effect on the implantee or the rapist. Really though this depends on how you see Immunity working, is it bullet-bouncing ala Superman Immunity, or is it a type of Regeneration on a scale that no damage is ever inflicted. Personally I go for a mix of the two.


It's hardened armor, like a car/tank. And I'm with you - the more likely scenario is that the surgery would fail (since it would be like using a scalpel on a concrete wall), or the bomb would just make a loud noise, some smoke, and a headache.


And I see Sir_Psycho has put on his "Net Psychologist" coat. Gosh doc, can I get some prozac please? Keep shifting the subject and someone (hint: not me) might forget that you got yourself into this mess by suggesting the spirit cast a barrier spell to stop their own suicide bomb, and that a bomb might only hurt the "safe parts of the brain." I wouldn't suggest returning to that line of thought though - You don't have a leg to stand on, and we both know it.
yukongil
QUOTE (Rehlor @ Feb 4 2009, 12:57 PM) *
It's hardened armor, like a car/tank.


I had forgotten about that part, though I'd change it for scene sake, like I could see a Earth Elemental with the power, bouncing bullets and whatnot, I think they'd just pass through a water or air elemental (not saying they have the power, as I can't remember off the top of my head, just using them for an example). Same thing if a humanoid critter had it, unless they come with dermal plates of some fashion, I see the bullets passing through the figure while insta-healing. Either way the net is no effect, just different ways of picturing it.

though a thought with the surgery, since the scapel and other surgery tools may be used with one's hands, would that be possible to consider as a melee attack, pitting the surgeons will vs the spirit, thus allowing the surgery?
darthmord
Here's something to keep in mind... can you turn off ItNW? If so, then surgery becomes a lot more palatable.

(don't have any of my books with me)
Rehlor
QUOTE (yukongil @ Feb 4 2009, 07:59 PM) *
though a thought with the surgery, since the scapel and other surgery tools may be used with one's hands, would that be possible to consider as a melee attack, pitting the surgeons will vs the spirit, thus allowing the surgery?


Maybe, but you're opening up a can of worms by doing so. How often do you make the test, which tools count, what does failure (or dramatic failure) translate into, and probably more to the point, how does the average street doc stand a chance in this contest against a F6 spirit?

Assuming success, my question would be: having noted highly irregular durability during surgery, and knowing the patient intends for the device to kill both it and those around it, would the doc just use more explosives?
yukongil
good point with the avg street doc vs the F6 spirit, but otherwise if it's a possibility it's enough for a story IMO.

for the story to work, logically, the doc and initial mage would have to be so drek hot, cutting edge shadow operators, that the kink bomb would have never gotten out of the testing facility it was implanted in and would instead be banished/controlled to pull shadow work for the Megacorp the surgeon worked at...or the initial mage who summoned and bound this spirit would have never been so lax as to forget to include some sort of do no harm through willful action or inaction clause.
WeaverMount
QUOTE (Rehlor @ Feb 4 2009, 03:14 PM) *
Maybe, but you're opening up a can of worms by doing so. How often do you make the test, which tools count, what does failure (or dramatic failure) translate into, and probably more to the point, how does the average street doc stand a chance in this contest against a F6 spirit?

Assuming success, my question would be: having noted highly irregular durability during surgery, and knowing the patient intends for the device to kill both it and those around it, would the doc just use more explosives?


Let's roll with this point for discussion.
The ItNW can would simply shut down an average street doc. No to ways about it. ItNW isn't a listed power of any spirit, it's an aspect of the power that lets them exist on the physical. "Turning off ItNW" means turning off materialization and going back to the astral. The cyber-technicians would have to be familiar with and equipped to work on possessed and inhabited patients. So if they are familiar with spirits then they would know how much force it would take to kill one. Here's an idea the doctor knows how Ally spirits work and what could possibly motivate it to request such a surgery, and installs the device is with the specific aim of sparing a patient and killing an evil mother fucker. Hell it doesn't even have to be altruistic. The doctor could just think it's good business move. I'd like to have a high force heavily chromed runner owe me one. Now I'd be really surprised in Hyzmarca intended any of that, but it's consistent, and exploring possibilities and extending a story is more interesting to me than being a jack ass. Lastly, Rehlor lay off the cyber foot thing, I brought that up as a clearly marked aside, and didn't use it to draw a specific conclusion. This thread started with original fiction, and good discussion. It would be real bitch move to get a thread locked down over personal attacks.
Rehlor
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Feb 4 2009, 09:20 PM) *
Let's roll with this point for discussion.
The ItNW can would simply shut down an average street doc. No to ways about it. ItNW isn't a listed power of any spirit, it's an aspect of the power that lets them exist on the physical. "Turning off ItNW" means turning off materialization and going back to the astral. The cyber-technicians would have to be familiar with and equipped to work on possessed and inhabited patients. So if they are familiar with spirits then they would know how much force it would take to kill one. Here's an idea the doctor knows how Ally spirits work and what could possibly motivate it to request such a surgery, and installs the device is with the specific aim of sparing a patient and killing an evil mother fucker. Hell it doesn't even have to be altruistic. The doctor could just think it's good business move. I'd like to have a high force heavily chromed runner owe me one. Now I'd be really surprised in Hyzmarca intended any of that, but it's consistent, and exploring possibilities and extending a story is more interesting to me than being a jack ass. Lastly, Rehlor lay off the cyber foot thing, I brought that up as a clearly marked aside, and didn't use it to draw a specific conclusion. This thread started with original fiction, and good discussion. It would be real bitch move to get a thread locked down over personal attacks.


I could be down for that version of the story. I prefer yukongil's darker version, which is more SR to me, but both are at least internally consistent. Seeing as the Nestor ended up fooled by humans and dead in Asimov's Little Lost Robot, it would actually be appropriate in my mind for the bomb to be powerful enough to kill the spirit but not Simon, or simply fail to damage either of them. Of course, I don't think Asimov would have written Dr. Calvin as a rapist, but...

But come on man - The cyber foot thing was funny. People get so hung up on combat rules around here. Ah well, I won't kick you in the cyber-shins about it anymore.
crash2029
@ hyzmarca

Wow, I feel for ya. Nothing like a creative excercise to excite the masses. I just hope all this hullabaloo doesn't veer you off future fiction contributions to the board.
Lindt
Ignoring the post story discussion, I thought it was a great story actually.
Blade
What I wonder is how the streetdoc was able to perform surgery on the vessel.
"Dang, there goes another scalpel! Bring me my monowire scalpel, the one I use for the troll tanks!"
Or maybe his Strength is high enough to bypass ITNW.

And don't forget kids: always dikote your ally spirit before having sex with it!
Metapunk
I have read through a few of the post and really dont see the problem, okay BEFORE it was made into an ally spirit it needed life support? that was at least how I read it, and I dont see even one problem with that part of the story. second all that with the bomb, for me, it is a spirit, indeed a very powerful one, and I would really have a hard time justifying for myself that a bombcould kill such a powerful being. it is okay to think logically about but really, is a spirit logic?

well not to start new discussions or anything, just my opinion and well I really liked the story and if okay with you hyz I would like to let my players read it, so can you PM me or write here if it is okay I copy-paste it to them in a mail?

hope to hear more of this being since it can be evolve into more stories and good ones:D
WeaverMount
QUOTE (Blade @ Feb 5 2009, 06:00 AM) *
And don't forget kids: always dikote your ally spirit before having sex with it!


You know, I've heard you old timers saying that forever, but now I know why.
ornot
Interesting story. The Star Wars reference didn't actually bug me at all. I mean, the author could have used a film reference from 2050, but then none of us would have got it. Even the fine wine reference seemed reasonable to me.

I actually thought the narrator was a man, and I was quite unsure what the mage intended back at the hide out after the run until the reference to explosive orgasms. I also didn't think it entirely explicit that Simon died, just that he was worse off than the narrator.

As for the cranial bomb implantation, one would assume that a heavily cybered individual would have certain components designed for easy maintenance. I don't think ItnW would prevent a streetdoc from popping a cranial bomb in or even behind a cyber eye.

Overall I think it was a well written vignette, which says more about how magical power can be corruptive than how tough an ally spirit in a 0.1 essence street sam can be.
raggedhalo
I also assumed it was a man when I read through it. *shrug*

The cranial bomb thing makes sense when you remember that spirits and physics don't mix. If the host body hadn't have been inhabited by a spirit, then yeah, sure, instant death. But I think that the spirit surviving while the guy within the blast radius dies is entirely legit.

Also, there's no penalty to surgery from ItNW. If it really bothers you, assume that surgery is an attack of will and that the surgeon was also the star of a hit medical drama...
Jaid
arguably, the path of least resistence would probably be out through the nose, mouth, eyes, and ears. which means you would've had a directed blast pointed right at the mage if the explosion is going to follow the path of least resistance...
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