Hi,

I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I'm planning on running a Shadowrun (4E) campaign in a few months. I would like to set the game in Montreal because, well, I live here, and it would be easier for me to adapt my hometown to the Sixth World than using another, less familiar city. Also, I like the idea of a corporate conflict between Ares and (what used to be) CATCo, with the Seraphim doing God-knows-what in between. However, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of Quebec in the game, and I need some input. Let me explain.

Sure, language issues can be a touchy subject for some (but by no means all) people around here in real life. However, it's nowhere near as bad as depicted in the game. Also, we may not be a prime tourist spot (it can indeed get fragging cold during winter...) but we certainly don't prevent anyone from coming in. I really like the bounty hunting part, where money is given for dangerous paranimal pelts, but I don't get why sentient critters (like sasquatch) would be on that list: it just strikes me as something the Quebec government would not do... And the list goes on. In other words, Sixth World Quebec strikes me as something TOTALLY different from what I'd expect of, well, my home province. I don't want to turn my Quebec into a goody-two-shoes nation. I want it to be just as corrupt as any other government, but I just don't like how it's done. It's as if the game developers thought: "They speak french, therefore, they are racist, are scared of computers, and are generally a bunch of retards. Because they speak french."

So, is there something about Sixth World Quebec that I'm missing? Is it a good setting that I am just not getting right? Or does it indeed suck? If you like it, sell me on it. If you think I should keep 6th World Quebec as is, please share your reasons. If you think it sucks, sell me on your version.

Thanks in advance, people! And don't be afraid to ask for more info if I'm not clear enough (yes, my mother tongue is french.

There is a lot of suck in much of the 6th world. A lot are good settings for games, but make no real sense.

Don't use your hometown or home province as a setting. It's not just that your expectations and extrapolations won't meet up with the Sixth World toxic mirror of our world. But also, the cityscape, the setting, should feel alien, exotic and unfamiliar to your players. It's a strange place, a living bizarre nightmare, but it requires a little suspension of disbelief. They players, and even you yourself, will have an easier time romping around this mad world if there's no point of comparison outside imagination.

And to your question on "what were they thinking?" well, imagine that every government official made the complete wrong decision at every level, in every city, state, and nation of the world, and you'll have a close picture of the state of things everywhere in Shadowrun.

Too true, kzt!

I guess when it comes to Quebec, I just can't make up my mind on the language issue. I've made up a part-canon, part-homemade history of Quebec for my upcoming campaign, and I decided to use the population's ties to Catholicism as the backdrop for a fair amount of human vs metahuman tensions (plus a nuclear meldown to spice things up!) The language issue just seems too extreme for me. French-as-only-official-language makes sense to me, but french-as-only-legal-language? What do they do with engish-speakers? Fine them? Jail them? Spank them?

And then the oral sex!

I agree with your first point, although I'm not sure I'll heed it. The 6th World has been my all-around favorite setting for many years (I used to play 2nd edition back in high school, and finally coming back to SR in a few months.) Honestly, I just picked Montreal because I couldn't make up my mind on a location for my next campaign, but who knows? It can change, since I'm not there yet. Good point, anyways.

As to the second point, I really want to capture this feeling in the campaign, but I'm just not sure I like how it's done. What I'd like is some input on the pros and cons of keeping or changing the "language laws" of Quebec.

EDIT TO ADD: Tyro, I think your tongue-in-cheek (PUN TOTALLY INTENDED) joke is really funny!

Well, if I had to contrive a logical reason for outlawing languages, it would be to make it easier to arrest people who I suspect of being against the government or Cross. In some ways, the law would be touted as national pride - not really to be enforced, per se. Then, some anglophones are caught in a bomb plot, and they use the law as an easy excuse to search the suspects' neighborhood, where a cache of propagandist literature is found, all in english. Planting little black (protestant?) bibles on suspects, became a commonplace practice for the security forces, but it's really only a law they bring out when they know the person is guilty of something but can't really pin anything on them... How many computers won't have a little bit of english code on them, really?

Kanada Ten,

Now that's something interesting, and I like it. In my little project, the religious anti-metahuman scare is almost a thing of the past by 2070 (it was my version of the "Night of Rage" race riots), but overall, it sounds nice.


Any other ideas people?

At least you don't live in the Algonkian-Manitou Council. Be thankful for that.

Do you?

Don't you enjoy the wonderfully horizontal scenery and the glorious metropolis that is Saskatoon?

Just kidding.

Yes, I do live in the Algonkian-Manitou Council. Needless to say I set my Shadowrun campaign elsewhere.

I think we had a run up to here once.

Once.

I grew up in Redmond, about 2 minutes from the main Microsoft campus, very close to the borders of Kirkland and Bellevue. I live in North Kirkland now, near Woodinville. I like the idea of running in Greater Seattle, but my corner of it is more a place to visit than a place to live in 2070.

Wake of the Comet has an adventure set in that area. I think I'm going to run it for my group and stick it in the city we live in, just for novelty sake.

AWOL_Seraphim, I used to live in Toronto, and set many of the local games there, and even wrote a Virtual Seattle mission that took place there. I and my players found that setting the game in a familiar locale that had been changed in many ways by the main trends in the Shadowrun universe was very enjoyable and engaging.

First of all, the setting was clear in everybody's mind, so the physical and social parameters of the city were as well understood by the players as by their characters. Second, the nasty turn of events made the decay of the Sixth World, as well as the wonder of it, more poignant. Finally, we all got a kick out of shooting up some very familiar locations!

As far as Québec and the way it is portrayed in the game, you have to remember that role playing games often emphasize rough stereotypes in order to be able to get through to a varied clientelle. At the same time, fear of the 'Other' has been a prime tool of rulers and the elite to control the masses since time immemorial. So it is -possible- that xenophobia would have been whipped up in a population recently isolated linguistically in order to make the job of ruling easier. "As long as they are worried about those people/things over there, they won't be worrying about the jobless rate." And you have to admit that there is a useful kernel of fear for the French language that could be grown into something much bigger by competent politicians.

I don't think Québecers would ever be silly enough to actually go through with the kind of isolation described in the game, but it is a possible alternate reality.

Making French the only legal language has the effect of requiring all corporations etc. to operate solely in French -- it's a great protectionist measure, because external corps have to totally retool their businesses to operate their. And you only get extraterritoriality if the local government gives you it through the Business Recognition Accords, so...

All good points! As for playing in familiar settings, I told my friends about my upcoming campaign and their first question was:"Will it be in Montreal?" The way they asked, I think I have no choice but to indulge them... As for the the rest of your post, I was totally aware of the "playing with stereotypes" but I just wasn't sure about the extent of the "anglophobia" and its implementation ingame. True, there are "english-haters" and "french-haters" just as there are "anything-else-haters" but I thought that in the game, it had been blown out of proportion. However, I found Kanada Ten's angle on the "language laws" pretty interesting (look at his last post in this thread) so I guess I've learned to love 6th World Quebec sort of the way it is!



It's not so good as a protectionist measure when you think about it. Can you say "french language skillsoft" ? No need to learn french when you can just buy a chip that will make you instantly fluent! I can see CATCo making a big chunk of fast nuyen selling the little chips.
On the other hand, I definitely understand what you mean.

To throw some perspective about the state of Quebec in Shadowrun, you have to back to Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America. The original author that fleshed out Quebec was not local, and inversed Quebec City and Montreal in importance and role. SoNA had to continue with what had been established, though some corrections were attempted.

Oops!

This isn't uncommon. It's pretty clear that whoever wrote up SLC in SoNA hadn't the foggiest idea about what they were writing about.

SLC? My acronyms are failing me.

I'm guessing Salt Lake City. Don't feel bad, I had to Google it.

Sorry SLC=Salt Lake City. Utah is where the state went to court to force the state universities to stop banning concealed carry on campus. And won.

You think you've got it bad. My home city rains frogs.



What's really unbelievable is that a squatter population live on the harbour bridge. This doesn't jar because it's a globally recognized landmark, along with centrepoint and the sydney opera house, but it really doesn't make any sense because the harbour bridge links the Sydney CBD to the North Shore, where we keep our wealthy, including the leader of our country, and get this, the goddamned Zurich building.

Sir Psycho,

So you're saying that there's a squatter zone right next to "upper-class-land"? The way you say it, it sounds a bit random...
And what's that about raining frogs???

The mana storms in Australia have strange effects... such as raining frogs, or blood. Anything but water, really

It's not that the squatter zone is near what is likely a A+ rated zone, it's that they are living on and under the bridge that joins that rich zone to the central business district. I for one wonder why exactly the corps and the rich would let that slide, given that it separates the rich from their nuyen. And we all know the rich love their nuyen.

Imagine if squatters set up a whole suspended shanty town on the Golden Gate bridge. Also, google the sydney harbour bridge.

Bellevue and Redmond are adjascent. They share a sizable border; in the SR universe, there's a big wall between the Barrens and Corptown, with no real buffer zone (other than the fact that the Barrens get worse as you get further in)

Damn lag... sorry, accidental double post.

Sir Psycho,

I googled pictures of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, and, well, yeah, I get your point...
Also, thanks for incidentally clarifying what a mana storm is. I read mentions of it in the rulebook, but I wasn't sure what a mana storm was about. Now I feel like I can justify pretty much any random thing in game with mana storms. Mwah hahah!

I like that thread, made me see things in SR'S Quebec a bit differently. (and other places)


Go on.

Ubbergeek,

Personally, all I wanted to do is get some opinions on 6th World Quebec and its language laws (whether to dump them or not, how to use them and keep the game interesting, etc.) and since I pretty much made up my mind on this aspect, I don't have much more to add to the topic. (I keep checking the thread just to see what else people are adding. Interestingly, it seems to have turned into a "why the 6th world version of my country is bad" thread... )

Is there anything you would like to discuss, whether about Quebec paranoia , Algonkian-Manitou Council "featurelessness", frog rain forecasts in Australia, or some other topic?