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Warentester
Hi everybody,

I'm still a noob to the SR4 rules, but what happens, if I have a spirit possess something? Lets take the example from the digital grimoire. A shaman conjures an air elemental and have it possessing his Harley Scorpion which gives the bike Immunity to Normal Weapons and adds its Force to
the bike’s Acceleration, Body and Armor ratings.

That sounds damn powerful to me. For how long does this hold?
Matsci
QUOTE (Warentester @ Feb 3 2009, 11:47 AM) *
Hi everybody,

I'm still a noob to the SR4 rules, but what happens, if I have a spirit possess something? Lets take the example from the digital grimoire. A shaman conjures an air elemental and have it possessing his Harley Scorpion which gives the bike Immunity to Normal Weapons and adds its Force to
the bike’s Acceleration, Body and Armor ratings.

That sounds damn powerful to me. For how long does this hold?


Forever, or untill the spirit runs out of services.

Possession traditions is the broken.
Warentester
So, if I have a spirit possessing an object and don't even intend to use up all services the bonus stays forever (or untils the spirit is killed, banished etc)?
Matsci
QUOTE (Warentester @ Feb 3 2009, 11:54 AM) *
So, if I have a spirit possessing an object and don't even intend to use up all services the bonus stays forever (or untils the spirit is killed, banished etc)?


Yes.

And thus you get mystic adept archer elves with a spirit possessing everything that they carry, and get 21+ hits on rolls.
coolgrafix
Meh.
Warentester
Well, but that makes them lighting up in astral space like white phosphor, doesn't it?
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Warentester @ Feb 3 2009, 03:47 PM) *
That sounds damn powerful to me. For how long does this hold?


Spirits go away at Dawn/Dusk.

You can get longer durations with Long Term Binding, which costs karma, or look at getting an ally spirit with Possession power, which also costs Karma.
Warentester
If i understood it right, all I have to do is to bind the spirit first using ritual material and doing an opposed test with Magic + Binding against the spirit’s Force x 2. Then it stays forever.
Oenone
Keep in mind enslaving spirits like that isn't likely to win you many friends.

Edit - By which I mean the GM will be well within rights to have your spirits turn on you or maybe give you the spirit bane quality for each type of spirit you've mistreated.
WeaverMount
>Well, but that makes them lighting up in astral space
>like white phosphor, doesn't it?
The how lots idea of lots of magic making you easier to see on the astral is a house rule. Makes sense, but a house rule
It does however make you easier for mundanes to tell that you are magically buffed. You get a 6 - Force check to notice that an object is possessed. If you have several items .... that's likely.

>And thus you get mystic adept archer elves with a spirit possessing
>everything that they carry, and get 21+ hits on rolls.
... no force 6 spirits possessing a bow and arrow doesn't give you a +6 bow and +6 arrow for a +12 attack roll. The possessed bow does nothing special, the arrow can strike beings on the astral from the physical with a DV of F/2.

>So, if I have a spirit possessing an object and don't even intend to use up all services
> the bonus stays forever (or untils the spirit is killed, banished etc)?
Yes, but you must remember the types of services. A summoned (read as unbound) only last until the next sun rise or set. Now you can just resummon another one. The main limit on this is that you usually have something better to do with you one and only source of free tasks than turn car into night rider. Bound tasks last 24 hours (a little better), and you can have charisma bound spirits at a time, but they are pretty expensive in time and money. Next you have the truely broken option depending on the length of your campaign: Long term binding. You pay Force in karma and a spirit will do a set of tasks for a year and a day. A lot of game don't last a nearly a year of game time. Plus if the spirit is disrupted it comes back in 28-F days, and get's back to work. Compared to quickening it's amazing. no prereq meta magic, and you can get two spells on multiple targets for 6 karma, that will get recast if dispelled.


WeaverMount
QUOTE (Warentester @ Feb 3 2009, 04:26 PM) *
If i understood it right, all I have to do is to bind the spirit first using ritual material and doing an opposed test with Magic + Binding against the spirit�€™s Force x 2. Then it stays forever.

The tasks themselves don't ever expire, but they are fulfilled in 24 hours, and if you want to keep possessing your hog, you have to shell out another one. Even for talented conjurers keeping an item possessed will likely take a binding a ever week at cost of F hours and Fx500 nuyen. If you are talking about an F6 that's 24 hours a month and 3000k nuyen. That's comparable to life style costs.
Warentester
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Feb 3 2009, 09:32 PM) *
Yes, but you must remember the types of services. A summoned (read as unbound) only last until the next sun rise or set. Now you can just resummon another one. The main limit on this is that you usually have something better to do with you one and only source of free tasks than turn car into night rider. Bound tasks last 24 hours (a little better), and you can have charisma bound spirits at a time, but they are pretty expensive in time and money. Next you have the truely broken option depending on the length of your campaign: Long term binding. You pay Force in karma and a spirit will do a set of tasks for a year and a day. A lot of game don't last a nearly a year of game time. Plus if the spirit is disrupted it comes back in 28-F days, and get's back to work. Compared to quickening it's amazing. no prereq meta magic, and you can get two spells on multiple targets for 6 karma, that will get recast if dispelled.

Sorry, but you lost me here. Binding seems to be forever, if i don't ask the spirit to do anything but to continue the current service (which is possession).
QUOTE ("SR")
The services of a bound spirit do not expire while the magician is alive and it will wait indefinitely to perform those services.


Can you explain to me, what you mean? Sry, but I am a real noob to SR4 magic rules.
Riley37
A bound spirit will wait indefinitely, away on the Astral, while not doing services.
If it's possessing your car, or if you have Channelling and it's possessing your body, that counts as performing a service. After all, having to possess a physical object takes the spirit away from its home, and exposes it to risk, since any damage to the possessed entity also hurts the spirit.
You can say, every 24 hours, "keep possessing me/my car", as a service request.
If you don't say so, then the spirit possesses for 24 hours, says "Job done!" and goes back to its poker game on the Astral.

WeaverMount plays a mage with Channelling who uses his unbound spirit (you can only have one at a time) to possess his body, and uses bound spirits of Man mostly as spellcasters; if he casts a Stunball, and he has two spirits with the Innate Spell power who also cast Stunball, that's a whole lotta stun.

Another player wrote a PC troll mystic adept, with high physical stats and high magic and Channelling, so that his STR and BOD would get boosted into double digits. REA also gets Possession boost; a troll with REA 5, possessed by a Force 5 spirit, has effective REA 10 and is hard to hit squarely with gunfire, and then has Immunity to Natural Weapons 10, and then BOD of 9 plus possession boost 5 means BODY 14 to soak any remaining damage. Of course, gunfire is only one of many ways to hurt a foe.
Warentester
O.k., step by step.

1. I conjure a spirit.
2. I bind the spirit (can be ommitted, if I don't need the spirit for longer than until dusk/dawn)
3. I ask the spirit to possess the vessel
4. if bound I have to renew the service at dusk/dawn

If I want to do it permanently I need an ally?
Matsci
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Feb 3 2009, 12:32 PM) *
>And thus you get mystic adept archer elves with a spirit possessing
>everything that they carry, and get 21+ hits on rolls.
... no force 6 spirits possessing a bow and arrow doesn't give you a +6 bow and +6 arrow for a +12 attack roll. The possessed bow does nothing special, the arrow can strike beings on the astral from the physical with a DV of F/2.


Interesting. I have some players to annihilate.
* Begins twinking out a Banshee with Heavy weapons*
Oenone
QUOTE (Matsci @ Feb 3 2009, 10:26 PM) *
Interesting. I have some players to annihilate.
* Begins twinking out a Banshee with Heavy weapons*


What I wonder is how the Mystic adept in question ever got past a ward without smashing it and drawing the wrath of corporate magical security down upon them?
DireRadiant
Bound <> Services

Using Possession is a service. Binding just means you have a spirit available to you beyond the dawn/dusk limit that you can then ask to do a services. Use up services means the spirit goes away. There are limits to the lenghts of services as well.

Don't think that the Service of Possessing a motorcycle is a "Binding".
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