Right, my area of expertise is definately more in the SR1-3 systems, rather than SR4. That being said I am hoping to get into an SR4 game pretty soon. One thing I have noticed from reading through the rules is the previously hinted at Astral Adept actually now seems to be a feasible character.

I was looking at someone who's talents lie in travelling Astral, Astral Combat and Assensing. I then figured that someone who can also disrupt astral presences expands their area of talent so I am also planning on taking Banishing and Counterspelling.

The basic concept I have is of an elf (Yes, I want that +2 Charisma, please) who has a debilitating genetic disease and really can't exert themselves physically. Genetics compensated by giving them the talent in Astral instead.

I was looking at taking 2s in the Physical stats (3 with the Agility bonus) and then 4 in intuition and Logic, 5 in Willpower and 6 in Charisma.

I was looking to Incompetence Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting, Summoning and Binding. I was thinking of taking Aptitude in Astral Combat and probably Infirm (although only getting 15BP for it as I already have 20 points from my Incompetencies).

Naturally taking the Influence Group at 4 seems sensible to give a 'real world' aplication as group Face. I was also looking to see if I could afford a weapon focus of some type or pick up a Mentor that would aid in Astral. I am also looking at having Astral Combat and Assensing at 5 to start.

Has anyone built somethng like this character before and whether you have or not can you suggest things I should look, or look out for, in chargenning something like this? I have always wanted to play an Astral Adept and am looking forward to doing so. I just wonder if under 4E I am missing any tricks or pit traps.

Also can the character get away with only having a Magic of 3?

Thank you in advance and I did have a search to see if I could find anything like this on the forum but with no success. If it has been brought up before I apologise and pointing me to a thread would be greatly appreciated.

Screw Banishing. A stun bolt is more effective.

Banishing + Magic vs. Force (+Summoning if bound), net hits reduce services. If it's a bound spirit you're not likely to do anything to it. If it's a high Force you're not likely to do much to it (it's like summoning--if you can't reliably summon it, you can UNSUMMON it either!), plus you take double the spirits hits in drain (again, just like summoning).

Where as you could throw Force 6 stun bolts at it (taking no drain: please resit 2 stun) and killing it eventually.

Thank you very much. Spellcasting is out of the window though. I want the character to be someone who deals primarily with astral space and mana but doesn't cast or counjure themselves. Sounds like Incompetencing Banishing as well then is a good idea? I see a spirit in astral I just rely on Astral Combat to muller it?

Probably.

Edit:
Fellow SR I know suggested that Banishing is good for taking out the weaker spirits (force 1 and 2s).

It's much, much easier to soak the drain when banishing a weak spirit, but the tactic itself is not necessarily as quick or effective as you might think due to the fact that you still need to score enough net hits to run the spirit out of services. Remember, the spirit's force isn't used just for resisting banishing; it's also used to resist the intial summoning and binding tests that determined the number of services it owes in the first place. This means that you may need upwards of 3 or 4 net hits to get rid of a skilled summoner's bound minor spirit whereas you may be able to banish a powerful unbound spirit with a single net hit simply because such spirits are so much harder for their master to control in the first place. Granted, your success is almost inevitably assured vs. weak spirits since you can just start banishing again next pass, but it's not necessarily all that much faster than whaling on the thing with a weapon focus or just letting the samurai blow it away with some Ex-Ex.


This fact is also precisely why my most successful conjurer specialized in bootstrapping force 3 plant spirits into all-purpose great form minions with about a half dozen services each rather than trying to create the force 6+ great form monstrosities that keep GMs awake at night. A high powered spirit makes a remarkably poor candidate for binding in many ways; the drain is excessive, the costs are high and unless you're spending edge you typically only come out with 2 or 3 services to show for your efforts even if you are pretty good at your job. Besides, you usually don't need anything higher than force 3 for anything but combat monkey duties to begin with. If all you're going to do is say "Sic 'em!" then what is the point of binding the silly thing anyway?

Banishing is only really useful if you plan on summoning the spirit immediately after words. It's a great way to get spirits your tradition can't summon. Otherwise stunbolt is better 19 out of 20 times.

The only problem with incompetencies is that they add to Notoriety, which is bad for a face (you wanted a secondary specialty as a face). I would take the Astral Aspected Magician negative quality, instead, especially if your GM can be talked into using the Expert Aspected Magician optional rule (which would give you +2 dice to your Assensing and Banishing skills).

A Magic of 3 would normally be pretty doable, since assensing and astral combat don't use the Magic Attribute, but if you are going to be gallivanting around astral space a lot, you will want a Magic Attribute high enough that the local background count won't disrupt you or keep you out of an area. It all depends on how often your GM uses areas with background count. If it isn't too often (and background counts of more than 1 should be rare), then you should be all right starting with a 3 in Magic.

You might consider the Restricted Gear quality. Since astral combat is your main offense, it would be wise to have a Force: 4 weapon focus.

Unless your gnome buddy took Astral Hazing, in which case he radiates a Background count of 4 in his immediate vicinity (1 meter). If he sleeps that'll expand to fill 9 to 10 meter radius for a few hours.

(Astral Hazing is weird, as a negative quality you become immune to any spell under Force 5).

Thanks for all the advice on banishing, people. I still like the idea of being able to do it thematically, but I'll probably not make it a major thing like I was going to. Star low and build it up.



Ahh, I hadn't seen the thing for notoriety. I'll talk to the GM. I remember him saying a lot of the Rep stuff was really screwy as far as he is concerned. Personally if I introduce myself as an Astral Adept, I have no idea why people would wail on my rep for not being able to spell cast!

I saw the aspected magician thing, but it only gave me a - 4 to skills. I wanted not to be able to do them /at all/, which is why I switched to Incompetent. Can you point me to the Expert Aspected Magician rule, please?

The points I have at the moment seem to be just about fitting together, but that's with a Magic of 4. If I drop to 3 I think I can fiddle to get the weapon focus up from rating 2. I'll have a look at the restricted equipment merit. Thank you. And BG counts can disrupt you or prevent you going places now? Wow, I need to read up on that! That's new.

Thanks.

I'm not sure about background counts disrupting astral forms, but they reduce your Magic rating, so I was assuming that a background count that reduces your Magic to 0 would disrupt your astral form. Looking at the actual rules on pg. 118 of Street Magic, it doesn't say that - it only renders you unable to use any magical abilities (that's what confuses me - isn't astral projection a "magical ability"?). Spirits are the ones that get disrupted. Note that background count affects astral visibility, so you will suffer penalties even though you don't use your Magic Attribute directly for assensing or astral combat.

The optional rule for Expert Aspected Magicians is on pg. 31 of Street Magic.

Okay, thanks a lot. I only have my copy of the main SR4 rules. I've arranged to pick up Street Magic from the GM tonight and also have a chat with him about whether Incompetent will mess up my Notoriety. Personally I don't see it as worse than taking the Aspected magican flaw, just means you can /never/ use those skills rather than doing so at a hefty minus which basically means you're not going to bother with them anyway.

That makes more sense for Astral, and yes I'm used to BG count messing up astral visibility from previous editions. Sounds to me like if your Magic is reduced to 0 you shouldn't be able to Percieve/Project, but then would I really want to be in a place with a BG count of 3?

Thanks a lot. I'll put my points spending on hold for now until I get the lend of Street Magic and then will probably design up both styles of the character and see what the GM likes best, and getting advice from on here when I have completed characters.

One other quick question, what book is the Restricted Gear merit in so I can take a look at that as well, when I'm round at the GMs?

Correct me if I am wrong but an adept cannot project astrally, only percieve....correct? In order to astrally project you would have to be a mystic adept. I might have failed to notice if the OP was contemplating a mystic adept vs a straight adept.

Now there are various drugs/BADs that can allow you to project.

Correct.

Also, you could do some serious damage by combining the awakened drug shade (which forces the recipient to astrally project) with DMSO (a compound in arsenal that turns pretty much anything that can be dissolved in water into a contact vector toxin) and some splash grenades/bullets. Get your samurai to hit the huge troll with the heavy machine gun with a shade bullet and his Strength of 15 on the physical plane is replaced by his Cha of 1 on the Astral. Yay unfair advantages!

Wow.

That's mean.

It's especially mean because astral combat is a skill that can not be defaulted to. I like it!

btw, the Restricted Gear quality is from Runner's Companion.

Usually astral entities have a Magic attribute. Except in this case with Shade, the character has a Magic of 0, IIRC, Shade does not give a Magic Attribute of 1. Therefore insta-disruption? Then what would be the point?

I would assume, from the context, that this is a case of a specific rule overriding a general rule. Otherwise, as you said, what would be the point of saying that it forces mundanes to astrally project?

My interpretation, since it gives a duration for the drug's effects, and notes that it allows people to project "longer than usual", is that the drug duration replaces the normal, Magic-determined duration for astral projection.

Actually you miss my point. If Magic 0 doesn't force you to become disrupted/off the astral due to Shade/Tempo/being forced unto the astral due to Astral Gateway, then you can use that method to ensure you can't be forced off the astral plane by someone relying on Background Count to disrupt you. Remember Magicians are much more likely to possess Astral Combat, Assensing, etc. and not suffer the immediate ill effects of being astral. Addiction to the drug/s may be a drawback, but being astrally active despite Magic 0 does give a bedrock position to fall back on.

Since when does having a magic of 0 in astral form "disrupt" you? I know it says that for spirits, but it never gives a clear indication of what background count does to astral forms. I always figured that as long as there was some mana around to sustain it, aka not in a chaotic flux like a mana storm or non existent like a void, an astral form could go anywhere, it would just be harder to do magical things. I think this drug was designed for adepts, who can't astrally project, low magic mages, who can't project for very long, and astral combat users, to get people onto their playing field.

P.S.-I looked in the astral projection section of BBB and the only time it actually mentions the magic attribute is for determining how long you can stay outside your body. Since this drug replaces that duration, it seems that it really doesn't matter what magic you have.

Yes, you may be right. Background Count does not actually force you off the astral plane or disrupts you, you only suffer damage being in sufficiently high Background Count.