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TeaTime
In SR4, is there a cap on the number of services owed for either a bound or summoned but unbound spirits? I vaguely recall it being tied to Summoning skill, but seem to be overlooking it in the BBB.
Matsci
QUOTE (TeaTime @ Feb 13 2009, 10:30 AM) *
In SR4, is there a cap on the number of services owed for either a bound or summoned but unbound spirits? I vaguely recall it being tied to Summoning skill, but seem to be overlooking it in the BBB.


1 Unbound spirit at a time
[CHA] Bound spirits at a time.
craygo
There is no cap on the number of services owed. But is tied Summoning skill. Services owed are equal to the number of net hits on the summoning skill vs the spirits resistance roll. So if a mage uses a point of Edge to summon a sprit and gets to re-roll his sixes for more hits, then the number of services owed could be high.
Adarael
Here's another question that came up the other day. One of my players is a voodoo mamaloa, and there was a locked door. She ordered her spirit to open the door. It tied to open the door by inhabiting the door, and couldn't. So it tried posessing the caster and picking the lock. It couldn't. It tried forcing it open. It couldn't.

At what point does the spirit go "I can't do dat, mon"? I ruled that the spirit would continue attempting to open the door until ordered to do something else.
Dashifen
QUOTE (Adarael @ Feb 13 2009, 01:03 PM) *
At what point does the spirit go "I can't do dat, mon"? I ruled that the spirit would continue attempting to open the door until ordered to do something else.


I'd just give it a Logic + Intuition test to figure out that it can't do it. Similar to the Pilot + Response for drones/agents responding to orders. Thus, higher Force Spirits might even realize prior to trying anything that it couldn't open the door.
Adarael
That's a more organic solution; I think I like it better. Something bothered me about spirits robotically attempting to carry out orders, since I prefer them to have a touch more personality than that.
Dashifen
QUOTE (Adarael @ Feb 13 2009, 01:19 PM) *
That's a more organic solution; I think I like it better. Something bothered me about spirits robotically attempting to carry out orders, since I prefer them to have a touch more personality than that.


Especially the Voodoo Loa should have strong personalities. For Hermetics and Chaos Mages (just examples), though, I usually do make them unthinking automatons without a strong will of their own. In other words: you can consider the tradition and how the tradition views their spirits when handling these sorts of things, too.
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Adarael @ Feb 13 2009, 03:03 PM) *
At what point does the spirit go "I can't do dat, mon"? I ruled that the spirit would continue attempting to open the door until ordered to do something else.


Sunset/Sunrise.

Though it should get upset if it's allowed to try it for so long.

It didn't think to inhabit the lock, or something on the other side?
Adarael
Well, yes, sunrise/sunset. I meant excepting that limiter, considering that it would be a very long time to keep trying to open the door.

It couldn't inhabit something on the other side because the other side was warded, and the lock was part of the door, and wasn't any easier to posess than the door itself.
(Rating 6 maglock, big fuck-off door, etc. Black facility, basically.)

It eventually got itself enough successes to inhabit and open the door, but only after about 8 rolls.
DireRadiant
Attempting the same Test repeatedly until you win seems kind of cheesy, especially if you don't do the "Trying Again" -2 modifier, SR4 p. 59.

It's much more fun to think of a spirit lurking out in the street until a convenient troll came along. Think of the hordes of passersby suddenly experience chills, and a series of folks wandering in trying to smash the door down for you while possessed.
Adarael
It got the Trying Again modifier for certain. There just wasn't a whole lot outside influence our friendly spirit could use, considering the door in question was halfway down a service elevator shaft with the magician hanging on a line. wink.gif
Hagga
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Feb 13 2009, 07:23 PM) *
Especially the Voodoo Loa should have strong personalities. For Hermetics and Chaos Mages (just examples), though, I usually do make them unthinking automatons without a strong will of their own. In other words: you can consider the tradition and how the tradition views their spirits when handling these sorts of things, too.

That's an interesting thought. God only knows how irritated a Black Magician's spirits would be.
Panzergeist
Here's a question: any limits on services for technomancers? They don't even have to pay for their sprites. Not that that is necesarily unbalanced though; if a sprite is destroyed it takes weeks to come back, and the technomancer might just prefer to let it go and register a new one.
Patrick the Gnome
QUOTE (craygo @ Feb 13 2009, 01:39 PM) *
There is no cap on the number of services owed. But is tied Summoning skill. Services owed are equal to the number of net hits on the summoning skill vs the spirits resistance roll. So if a mage uses a point of Edge to summon a sprit and gets to re-roll his sixes for more hits, then the number of services owed could be high.


Also, you can rebind a bound spirit as many times as you want, so you could technically have infinite services on a bound spirit
Cain
QUOTE (Panzergeist @ Feb 13 2009, 04:39 PM) *
Here's a question: any limits on services for technomancers? They don't even have to pay for their sprites. Not that that is necesarily unbalanced though; if a sprite is destroyed it takes weeks to come back, and the technomancer might just prefer to let it go and register a new one.

Considering that their rules are identical to the summoning/binding ones, I'd say no. You can have as many services on a bound sprite as you can roll.
TheOOB
It depends on your tradition how spirits act, but remember that even a force 1 spirit has a mind of it's own(though it is pretty stupid), and a force 6 spirit is a genius, though not familiar with the physical world too much.

Most spirits won't require a service to do very basic menial tasks (unless they dislike their master), and will tell their master if a task is outside of their abilities before they waste their masters time or services(especially if the task carries a risk of disruption, a force 1 spirit knows they can't hold off a corp sec squad and won't enjoy being forced into that situation).

The real trick is to just consider the spirits personality and go from there. I usually use the tradition as a basis for the personality, and modify it by the spell association of the spirit. Combat spirits are more likely to enjoy combat, even if the odds are against them, and manipulation spirits don't mind doing long menial tasks as much as a detection spirit who would rather do surveillance and deliver messages.

EDIT: As for number of services, there is no hard limit, but spirits do loath being bound for long periods of time.
Cain
QUOTE
EDIT: As for number of services, there is no hard limit, but spirits do loath being bound for long periods of time.

That's entirely up to the roleplay between spirit and summoner. If handled well, a mage who keeps rebinding the same spirits over and over may suffer less of a penalty than one who constantly summons new ones.
ArkonC
QUOTE (Cain @ Feb 14 2009, 04:18 PM) *
That's entirely up to the roleplay between spirit and summoner. If handled well, a mage who keeps rebinding the same spirits over and over may suffer less of a penalty than one who constantly summons new ones.

QFT!
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