I recall we've gone over this before, but let us refresh our memories and relive the debate.
1) If you have, say, a weapon focus, could you also enchant it as a Power Focus after the initial bonding is complete? That is, make the equivalent of a stacked focus in stages?
2) DO you think the practice of the masked shamanic socities reusing old foci to lower the cost of new foci should be applicable to other foci? (i.e. if you have a power focus and a weapon focus, and want to make a more powerful stacked weapon/power focus, coudl you destory the previous two foci to make it easier?)
3) Exactly how difficult is it for an Obeyifa to construct a fetish, and how many materials need be used?
--sub-question: wouldn't a Great Form ancestor spirit in such a fetish be pretty frickin' cool?
Full Version: Enchanting Questions
Obeyifa? Why does it sound familiar? I just can't place it...
1) I say you would need to research a formula that allows you to add on enhancements and the necessary karma. Otherwise, why not?
2) I think I'll allow the karma used to bond the 2 foci to count towards bonding the new one, but not the physical cost. Unless you are literally recycling the foci materials, then maybe.
3) I can't for the life of me remember what a Obeyifa is.... so I don't know.
1) I say you would need to research a formula that allows you to add on enhancements and the necessary karma. Otherwise, why not?
2) I think I'll allow the karma used to bond the 2 foci to count towards bonding the new one, but not the physical cost. Unless you are literally recycling the foci materials, then maybe.
3) I can't for the life of me remember what a Obeyifa is.... so I don't know.
| QUOTE (Ancient History) |
| 1) If you have, say, a weapon focus, could you also enchant it as a Power Focus after the initial bonding is complete? That is, make the equivalent of a stacked focus in stages? |
I don't believe you can enchant something unless it starts mundane. It might not actually say that anywhere, though.
| QUOTE |
| 2) DO you think the practice of the masked shamanic socities reusing old foci to lower the cost of new foci should be applicable to other foci? (i.e. if you have a power focus and a weapon focus, and want to make a more powerful stacked weapon/power focus, coudl you destory the previous two foci to make it easier?) |
Sure, it sounds cool.
| QUOTE |
| 3) Exactly how difficult is it for an Obeyifa to construct a fetish, and how many materials need be used? |
If you mean gris-gris, then it's pretty easy. It's the same as an expendable spell focus. You can even make them en masse, up to your intelligence rating per batch. You can use whatever materials you want, really.
If you mean a fetish, then fetishes aren't particularly useful to Obeyifa, who cannot use Sorcery.
| QUOTE |
| --sub-question: wouldn't a Great Form ancestor spirit in such a fetish be pretty frickin' cool? |
Yeah. Obeyifa are just generally cool.
I've got another subquestion:
Can an obeyifa summon an Ally Spirit? If so, must it inhabit a gris-gris?
| QUOTE |
| 1) If you have, say, a weapon focus, could you also enchant it as a Power Focus after the initial bonding is complete? That is, make the equivalent of a stacked focus in stages? |
I'd allow it, but you'd have to bond it again if you wanted to really fuse those enchantments. But if you, for example, enchanted the hilt of a weapon focus as a power focus, you'd only have to pay the difference in bonding cost from the weapon focus to the combined focus.
| QUOTE |
| --sub-question: wouldn't a Great Form ancestor spirit in such a fetish be pretty frickin' cool? |
My (german) version of MitS also states Great Form ancestor spirits don't exist. p. 70 "Anrufung" (Invoking)
I didn't know Obeyifa were able to summon ancestor spirits, where did you find that?
| QUOTE |
| 1) If you have, say, a weapon focus, could you also enchant it as a Power Focus after the initial bonding is complete? That is, make the equivalent of a stacked focus in stages? |
say what? sounds a bit munchie but if lets say you take the old focus into effect when designing the formula then maybe, just maybe.
| QUOTE |
| 2) DO you think the practice of the masked shamanic socities reusing old foci to lower the cost of new foci should be applicable to other foci? (i.e. if you have a power focus and a weapon focus, and want to make a more powerful stacked weapon/power focus, coudl you destory the previous two foci to make it easier?) |
masked shamanic? refrence please...
destroying a foci does not normaly give you back any karma spent on bonding them iirc...
| QUOTE |
| 3) Exactly how difficult is it for an Obeyifa to construct a fetish, and how many materials need be used? --sub-question: wouldn't a Great Form ancestor spirit in such a fetish be pretty frickin' cool? |
obeyifa? refrence please...
References
- for shamanic mask societies: Shadows of North America IIRC.
- for obeyifa: MITS.
- for shamanic mask societies: Shadows of North America IIRC.
- for obeyifa: MITS.
| QUOTE ("Ancient History") |
1) If you have, say, a weapon focus, could you also enchant it as a Power Focus after the initial bonding is complete? That is, make the equivalent of a stacked focus in stages? |
At first glance, I'd say that the action of enchanting destroy any previous enchantment in an object.
But as IIRC rules allow to improve/upgrade a focus rating, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to do what you want to do. Maybe you should be careful to take into account the increased complexity, the increased cost, and so on, however.
| QUOTE ("Ancient History") |
2) DO you think the practice of the masked shamanic socities reusing old foci to lower the cost of new foci should be applicable to other foci? (i.e. if you have a power focus and a weapon focus, and want to make a more powerful stacked weapon/power focus, coudl you destory the previous two foci to make it easier?) |
IIRC, the thing you're talking about here is that the shamans destroy an old focus or part of one in the process of creating a new one. My interpretation on this is simple: treat that as a special ingredient (as the dragon body fluid...). IIRC, it allows to reduce first bonding cost.
| QUOTE (Ancient History) |
| I recall we've gone over this before, but let us refresh our memories and relive the debate. 1) If you have, say, a weapon focus, could you also enchant it as a Power Focus after the initial bonding is complete? That is, make the equivalent of a stacked focus in stages? 2) DO you think the practice of the masked shamanic socities reusing old foci to lower the cost of new foci should be applicable to other foci? (i.e. if you have a power focus and a weapon focus, and want to make a more powerful stacked weapon/power focus, coudl you destory the previous two foci to make it easier?) 3) Exactly how difficult is it for an Obeyifa to construct a fetish, and how many materials need be used? --sub-question: wouldn't a Great Form ancestor spirit in such a fetish be pretty frickin' cool? |
In the design part of the enchanting, the form has to be specific for the formula. A stacked focus must have a formula written specifically as a stacked focus, so no you can't do it in stages. At least according to Artificing rules within MITS. A house rule is a different story altogether.
On Obeyifa: Gris-Grises are created in exactly the same manner as Expendable Spell Foci as was described before. I'd allow an Obeyifa who chooses to give-up spirits of man to summon ancestor spirits instead, indeed "west africa" is a listed source of both practices. West africa is a big place but as tradition is mostly a 'personal outlook' issue I have no problem with characters who mix mythologies a bit, especially as they are both from roughly the same area of the world. According to the Invoking section of the English version also: Ancestor spirits have no great form (although you could house-rule it).
Obeyifa can summon ally spirits, and do not need to put them in a Gris-Gris, although they may choose to give it the inhabiting power which is the closest thing I can think of. If you want to venture into the realm of house rules you could allow something like the Hidden Life free spirit power tied to a Gris-Gris...
Technically it would be possible to create a stacked focus in multiple stages. Logical houserules could be applied, however, stating that you need an appropriate formula and need to use the +TN modifier of the combined forces. (Meaning there is a net loss time-wise, but what the hey...)
Obeyifa can summon ally spirits, and do not need to put them in a Gris-Gris, although they may choose to give it the inhabiting power which is the closest thing I can think of. If you want to venture into the realm of house rules you could allow something like the Hidden Life free spirit power tied to a Gris-Gris...
Technically it would be possible to create a stacked focus in multiple stages. Logical houserules could be applied, however, stating that you need an appropriate formula and need to use the +TN modifier of the combined forces. (Meaning there is a net loss time-wise, but what the hey...)
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| Obeyifa can summon ally spirits, and do not need to put them in a Gris-Gris, although they may choose to give it the inhabiting power which is the closest thing I can think of. |
I'm pretty sure it says they can't summon at all except into gris-gris. Got any page references regarding this?
| QUOTE (Namergon) |
| References - for shamanic mask societies: Shadows of North America IIRC. - for obeyifa: MITS. |
On the Mask Societies, it's actually Threats 2. SoNA may mention it, but it's covered more in depth in Threats 2.
~J
You're right, they are mentioned in SoNA, but really detailed in T2.
Maybe I only mentioned SoNA because translating it for the French publisher traumatized me a bit
Maybe I only mentioned SoNA because translating it for the French publisher traumatized me a bit
| QUOTE (Zazen) | ||
I'm pretty sure it says they can't summon at all except into gris-gris. Got any page references regarding this? |
I don't have the book with me right now, but it says nothing like "all spirits summoned by an obeyifa must be done into a Gris-Gris". The section on Obeyifa says that they summon Nature spirits into Gris-Gris, and Ally spirits aren't nature spirits. Indeed an Obeyifa could still summon Gris-Gris-less watchers as any other character capable of conjuring could.
It says "Obeyifa can only conjure nature spirits and must use a gris-gris for all summoning." I guess that means no Ally.
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