Ok so me and my group are new to shadowrun and I just wanted to know can you affect a aura with mana spells (aura not astral form) like for example control thoughts, stunbolt, etc. ? Also if you could point me to the rule that would be great because I must be blind because i just can't find anything definitive.

You can't. You can only target dual natured critters and astral critters (spirits).

Thanks

That said, our group has ruled that since when you manifest you become vulnerable to mana spells, and it's decribed as the inverse of astral perception, you can cast spells onto the physical plane then - the book's a little vague on that point. Of course, at that point you're also visible so it does ruin the element of surprise.

It's been errataed out, now manifesting is spellproof from the material plane.

Relecs,

You and your target must both be present on the same plane for mana spells to work. If you're on the astral, they have to be on the astral too. If you're on the physical, they have to be there as well.

Huh. Interesting. It occurs to me that that also makes ritual spellcasting useless at a distance without the Sympathetic connection metamagic - the spotter, who isn't manifesting by default, can't form a connection to someone on another plane.

Oh well, I'll discuss it with my group.

What about this example: In a pitch black room there's an elf mage and a mundane human. Could the mage percieve astrally to see the humans aura and target him with a spell or does he need to be able to see the human on the physical plane?

I think you need to see him to target him with a direct spell. But he could fireball him, with a minus something.

while astrally perceiving, you are dual natured, and exist on both planes at the same time. you can cast a spell on either plane, but not on both simultaneously. so you could target physical spells with astral perception... in fact, ghoul magicians do it all the time.

as far as the ritual spellcasting thing, it functions differently from normal spellcasting. that's why it requires a different skill. the method of connection (as the metamagic technique you mentioned demonstrates quite clearly) does not have to be the same as the method of connection for standard spellcasting.

He has to be on the same plane, he doesn't need to see him on the same Plane
thats why Channeling from SR2 doesn't work anymore,thats why the astral mage (even if Manifesting) is safe from
non-astrally perceiving/projecting Mages,etc
in German its called Ebennentrennung (Plane Separation ?)
So the Astral perceiving mage can cast Spells on the Mundane

Hough!
Medicineman

Just to make sure I understand correctly.

An astrally projecting mage (who is therefore only on the astral plane) cannot target living things that have an astral aura, but are otherwise not present on the astral plane, including mages who are not actively perceiving the astral, or physical adepts with the astral perception quality, but not currently using it.

Can he assense them? (I believe that yes)
Can he target a non-astral being with a physical spell? (I believe that no)
Can he cast physical spells that don't target an individual, like an area physical spell? (I believe that the answer is still no)

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, or confirm that I got it right.

@gobogen

Correct on all points.

Correct with a little Add-on
The astral Mage can only cast mana Spells,no physical Spells

with an astral Dance
Medicineman

Yeah, I thought of adding that, but the text really only talks about targeting astral forms. It doesn't specifically say you can't do physical spells to people on the physical plane. So I stuck with the Plane Separation thing.

You're saying an astrally projecting mage could by RAW target a lightning bolt at a dual being?

No, no, no. I knew I should have said nothing, that I would just confuse the issue. Damn.

You cannot cast physical spells in astral space, as far as the wording in the text can be interpreted. "Only mana spells affect astral forms" (SR4, p. 184, p. 195 under Type) is the most explicit instruction we get. By itself, this would not have negated casting physical spells at targets on the physical plane, but the separation of astral and physical planes (SR4, p. 183 under Astral Forms, p.184 under Manifesting, p. 289 under Materialization, I think there are more) does preclude casting spells of any kind into the physical plane from a source completely on the astral plane, or vice versa.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing things out. I did find that odd, after I thought I understood the whole thing.

Howdy all. New here, but wanted to make sure I understand right.

A magician on the physical plane perceiving the Astral is considered to be dual-natured and can cast on either plane, right?

A magician projected on the Astral manifested back to the physical is NOT considered dual-natured and can only cast on the astral, correct?

Breakdown of how it works.

You can only target spells onto a plane you are active on.
A spell can take effect on a single plane, chosen when cast.
Physical spells can affect only physical targets.
Mana spells can affect only living targets & astral forms.

An Astrally Projecting magician is active on the Astral plane, & can affect any astral form he can perceive through Assensing.

An Astrally Perceiving magician is active on the Astral & Physical planes, & can affect any astral form he can perceive through Assensing, any living Physical form he can perceive through Assensing, & any Physical form he can perceive through Perception.

Dual Natured creatures are active on the Astral & Physical planes, & follow the same targeting rules as an astrally perceiving magician.

Spirits are Dual Natured when Materializing. Manifesting spirits & characters are not.

If you can target a spell in any of the above manner, you can be targeted in the same way.

Cool. That was what I understood, but wanted to make double sure. Thanks for the reply!