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ElFenrir
So, we use the optional rules(in SR4) for cutting down power costs by slapping a Geas on a power. What I've been thinking about are some interesting geas ideas.

I mean, there's the talisman. I admit I'm guilty of using this just because I can't think of something that's both interesting, and not crippling. Geasa should be something that you have to at least worry about somewhat(being a kind of negative quality, after all), but not something utterly ridiculous(some of the Geas examples are vastly different-they range from moderate to outright crippling.)

Could some of these geasa made for spellcasting work for adepts? Gesture, for example? (Ie, to activate a power, they might have to do some sort of, well, gesturing of a kind. A kata for Improved Combat Skill or Reflexes, perhaps.)

What about something like Condition Geas(Artisan): Must have preformed somehow for at least a (half hour or hour) that day in a certain kind of Artisan skill. This could be practicing/playing an instrument, drawing, sculpting, painting, metalwork, etc. As long as the character does this for an hour, it's good. If he goes 24 hours without it, the geas is broken until he preforms said artisan action for an hour.

Time could always work(power only works before or after sunset.) What about Incantation-could an adept power be tied to that?

I dunno, I'm just trying to figure something out that can fit my adept(so Fasting is out-it would make no sense for him, for example), that can get me away from the Talisman. (He does play the cello, so that's where I came up with the possible Artisan Geas.) I also considered his power(I geased Reflexes, of course), to be tied to his sight. He's typically at a -3 to sight(Reduced Sense, 5 BP), but perhaps if he's at Full Darkness(ie, blindfolded), the power works.

Anyone here use different Geas for adepts before?
Draco18s
Blindfolded, or "fully blind" would be a condition geas.

Gesture geas can even be something like a stance from martial arts. If you're bound in any way it stops working (as expected from a similar IRL observation and by RAW).
The Neutronium Alchemist
Well the obvious things that spring to mind are either rituals that have to be performed at particular points in the day (e.g. at waking, before meals, after visiting the toilet and before going to bed) or in particular situations (such as never sitting with your back to the door, only entering a personal dwelling if invited, performing a particular act if one sees oneself in a mirror, only drinking a particular sort of liqour or water).

If you want to go even further you could look at the monastic rules, such as those of St Benedict or the the Buddhist Sangha and adapt some of the less limiting or whackier ones to fit your need (the 30 nissaggiyas on the Buddhist page can be particularly useful here).
AllTheNothing
Meditation?
Drinking green tea?
Kata?
Praying?
Reciting poetry?
Joga?
Playing a musical instrument?
Singing?
Dancing?
Sex? (pornomancers biggrin.gif )
Talking to your own immage on a mirror?
Polishing a tool/weapon/instrument important to you? (for exemple a swordmaster adept could polish his/hers katana)

Some geas could be tied to NOT having done something for enough time
Having sex?
Dinking alcohols?
Eating meat? (ok not that hard in SR)
Smoking?
Assuming drugs? (purity of body)

AngelisStorm
The problem with the "not doing something" examples is that it's a game, and it's supposed to be a penalty. Is it really a penalty when a character goes "Ok, I don't drink, and my character has a vow of chastity." Not really an issue. The drinking might come up in a social situation, but not really if the character is smooth enough.

The only time these type of disadvantages work is for vital things, like eating and sleeping. That way the character can plan ahead for runs, but if the GM wants to utilize them, he need only drop a last minute run on the characters. (Or have them hide out from the bad guys. How long can you stay awake, so as to keep your super powers?)
Draco18s
Remember that for both doing and not doing it's about "in the last 24 hours." Most of the time it's not going to be a big deal (ferinstance, "had to have sex" (one of the suggestions for a ritual geas) will likely end up for most groups, as being something that happens by default prior to a run and doesn't come up until they're still out on the run for 24 hours, then it'd enter the table as being an issue ("we've been pinned down for a while, if I don't get some nookie in 3 hours I'm going to lose my reflexes/magic/whatever")).

So something like "no drinking" isn't really any more of a penalty.
Kanada Ten
The warrior begins every morning by cleaning the mirror shard with his well worn rag. The old and almost empty Paint-By-Numbers set beside him, he sits on the rooftop ledge holding the jagged mirror between his bare toes. He examines his face, the scars, the lines, the eyes - he looks hard at those eyes. A wind from the ocean carries the soft scent of salt and distant bird cries over the quiet sprawl below him. This is the silent hour, when the demons have gone to bed and the living have not yet begun living in earnest. Taking the brush in hand, the warrior begins to paint his face. Curving, curling lines of white, swirls and spirals of red, three tears of azure, he marks the canvas of his skin, bending the mirror this way and that. Satisfied, he rinses the brush in his little tin can cistern and closes tight the little plastic lids before rolling the kit up in his hideaway. He can already feel dawn's power filling him. It will be a good day to run.
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (AngelisStorm @ Mar 8 2009, 08:50 PM) *
The problem with the "not doing something" examples is that it's a game, and it's supposed to be a penalty. Is it really a penalty when a character goes "Ok, I don't drink, and my character has a vow of chastity." Not really an issue. The drinking might come up in a social situation, but not really if the character is smooth enough.

"No sex" would be a perfect justification for a GM to use social skills against the character. Sure, he doesn't want to lose his powers, but that woman at the bare is rolling very well on her Con (Seduction) rolls!
ElFenrir
Nice suggestions/descriptions here overall. I think I might actually run with music-having to play/practice the cello for an hour straight every 24 hours.

It will still muck up surprise runs pretty well ''Johnson says meet at the Inferno, yesterday!'', and also, for instances of having to hightail it out right AFTER a run and hide for a couple of days, he won't have access to it. It would normally be something he does upon getting up, but things could happen that could throw a wrench in those plans. Most teams/Johnsons don't want to hear ''yeah, I'll be there after my cello practice.''

Now, AS a GM, I kind of wonder how I should be with them myself. Take the aformentioned sex geas. Now, normally, it might not be to hard to get some. The character looks good in the face and physique wise, he's a charmer, etc, and being able to get with someone at a club probably isn't terribly difficult. Or hell, they might even have an SO of sorts. I don't want to be picking on them and, say, springing surprise runs on them(that are far away in the middle of nowhere), ALL the time, turning what once was a regular flaw into ''why did I even pick this power in the first place?'' But even with the geas examples listed in the book; some of them are a bit more harsh than others, just by nature. (The sex geas isn't as hard as say, the food geas...unless the Adept has Sustenance, that is. grinbig.gif Being cheesy aside, the Sustenance power could actually be a reasonable by-product of a Fasting geas, funny enough-character fasts so often that the body's magic sort of developed it's own way to keep healthy. Of course, Sustenance does not mean ''no food needed to live''-it simply, IMO, makes it a bit faster to get ''back on track'' after a fast.)

I also considered geasa on adept powers, with a condition that they were linked to other adept powers which must be active for the other power to work. (For example-Reflexes and Smashing Blow are both linked to the Berserk power-the character must be Berserk for these to work...and this isn't always viable, or a good idea.) Of course, it should be a power that is activated, and has some concern, so to speak(like Berserk-it's not something you want to do all the time.)
AngelisStorm
Psycho, that leads to the inevitable "I don't care how hot that -fill in the blank- is, I'm NOT having sex. Are you an idiot? I would loose my powers." If pornomancers can't control people's minds with 14 hits, then you shouldn't force Con (Seduction) on a player to activate his Geasa. That's for spellcasting magic to do.

I like the Cello geas, btw. It's not crippling, but it's dang inconvient at times, and if your in hiding, bang there goes your powers (and when your in hiding, that's often when you need them the most).
HappyDaze
As far as not doing things, there are some that work out fine for geasa:

Must not cause harm (violated if you've inflicted even 1 point of S or P on a living being in the last 24H - a difficult one for most runners).
Must not travel in a powered conveyance (bicycles and skates are OK, anything with a motor is out).
Must not speak (DNI-translated 'mindspeech' would also break the spirit of the geasa).
Must not touch dead flesh (includs eating meat and searching bodies).
Must not look upon (or listen, smell, touch, etc.) the false world (that's any AR/VR matrix use - a biggie in SR4 but possibly fitting for a real technophobic magician).
Draco18s
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Mar 9 2009, 06:24 AM) *
Must not look upon (or listen, smell, touch, etc.) the false world (that's any AR/VR matrix use - a biggie in SR4 but possibly fitting for a real technophobic magician).


Whoever takes that one would never be able to have the Smartlink bonus when using a firearm.
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (AngelisStorm @ Mar 9 2009, 05:53 AM) *
Psycho, that leads to the inevitable "I don't care how hot that -fill in the blank- is, I'm NOT having sex. Are you an idiot? I would loose my powers." If pornomancers can't control people's minds with 14 hits, then you shouldn't force Con (Seduction) on a player to activate his Geasa. That's for spellcasting magic to do.

I can almost accept that argument under most circumstances, but the player chose that geasa, and it has to come up in play, or it's just a cheap bonus. If they complain, then they really shouldn't have tried to take an unbreakable geasa. Also, said hypothetical player clearly needs some talcum powder and a box of Kleenex, because they'd only lose the powers (with geasa) for 24 hours. Big deal.
GreyBrother
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 9 2009, 02:06 PM) *
Whoever takes that one would never be able to have the Smartlink bonus when using a firearm.


True, but "who needs this body-abominating corruption of ones own lifeforce" if the spirits can grant you so much more without it. grinbig.gif
BIG BAD BEESTE
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 9 2009, 01:06 PM) *
Whoever takes that one would never be able to have the Smartlink bonus when using a firearm.


Well then they'd just better buy some weapons with laser sights instead. Used to be the adept's choice back in the 50's y'know - smartlinks were Essence-eating cyberware back then. (And don't even get me started on smartlinking bows - GAH!)

As for Geasa, well I've a player who has a troll "samurai" adept and he's taken a condition geas during intitation. He's basically chosen one that means he can't initiate combat without breakig it. Sees it as as honourable bodyguarding style of choice. Of course, with his Level 3 Increased Reflexes, he's got a nice Reaction time to quick draw his katana and strike the target with iajutsu techniques.

Overall, if you're looking at taking a geasa try to base it on something that the character uses in their philosophy of following their magical path. Link it with the roleplaying side of the character.

Of course, there's always a cost for trying to squeeze in more maxing to your abilities - if you don't want the penalties attributed by a geas you shouldn't try to get cheap powers. Earn some Karma & get initiated instead..
ElFenrir
Now, the ''can't initiate combat'' is actually very cool character wise-but I don't think it's quite limiting enough with Level 3 reflexes. I mean, in my experience, the PCs don't ALWAYS initiate it in the first place, and when they do, leaving it up to the ''hot headed guy'' isn't that bad. I would accept this geas with another condition-he cannot strike first in combat. He can, now, take his action and defend, and then counterattack with Riposte(which will eat another turn up, and could indeed fit the whole style-parries with his specially-made sheath, then unsheathes and counterattacks perhaps), since technically, the other person struck him first.

I would even accept ''cannot deal physical damage'' as a Geas. And yes, this counts Overflow. So even if Bob the Adeptchose to do Stun damage with his staff, but ends up doing a base 8S and stages it up to even 1P-his geas is broken, so this might take some careful consideration of pulling successes.

Alternately, ''Can only deal physical damage'' might be a doozy, too. Yes, this counts stuff staged to Stun via armor. It might fit well with a ''berserker, fight-to-kill'' adept. If Bob the above ended up with this one, he basically cannot fight unless he is allowed to deal physical damage only, IE, to kill(though dealing physical damage does not necessarily mean he will kill everyone-since they could always retreat, etc.) But he can't fight with the intent to stun.

For my adept with the cello one I'm considering-he's a Warrior's Way through and through, but he just enjoys music a lot and is quite good at it. I couldn't really think of a good warrior-type Geas(except for the ''must be completely blind'' clause) that fit him. He's quite calm, but will really take about any job from guarding to wetwork. He studied(ie, has the martial arts qualities) of Savate, Kung Fu/Chángquán, and Carromeleg, and fights mainly barehanded, but is also extremely good with blades. Limiting it to ''only unarmed'' or ''only with blades'' wouldn't be too much of a disadvantage(since his blade is a No-Dachi with 2 reach, he rolls damn near as many dice with it, though his unarmed attack is stronger.)

''Only with arm/leg/elbow/knee'' strikes might be kind of interesting, but I don't think limiting enough. (Only arm strikes would require he somehow cannot use his arms, and be forced to headbutt, thus breaking the Geas, but how often would that come up? Not very. Only leg strikes would be a bit more disadvantageous, since if he's in a car, or other small area and unable to kick, he'd be forced to fight other ways and thus break the Geas. Of course, this would hose his Blades skills pretty quickly.)

So yeah, the cello might be the best one, still fitting with him. Perhaps something wakes up in him whenever he plays it every morning.
AllTheNothing
Geas of the century:
Must be alive, if you die you lose the chosen power until you become alive again; spirit inhabitation power doesn't qualify as back alive. biggrin.gif
HappyDaze
For mystic adepts of a possession tradition that have Channeling (yeah, there's bound to be a few out there), a Condition geas that allows certain powers to only work while a spirit is riding the body can be taken. Likewise not having been ridden for 24h could be a geasa on some powers too.

QUOTE
Must not travel in a powered conveyance (bicycles and skates are OK, anything with a motor is out).

For the record, this includes elevators, escalators, and powered sidewalks. Find the stairs chummer!
Kanada Ten
I'm a big fan of the "three unique qualities" idea presented in the Talisman Geas, especially applied to Conditional and Ritual Geasa. It's not just that he plays a cello for an hour - he plays his cello (not some AR substitute), for an hour, to comfort a dying or ill person (or "at dawn" etc). Sex once a day turns into sex, with a monogamous partner, who must achieve climax - terrible for long term relationships ("Not this morning, baby, I've got a headache..." "But, honey, you don't understand: I need it. I've got a big job tonight."). Sacrifice Geas is good too, cut with a ritual knife, forgo first aid, never hide the scar. Warrior geasa: Weapons must be blessed by a holy person before/after they are used to kill. Bullets, arrows, weapons must be tipped with the warrior's blood. Incantation is a classic martial art geas. Bathing in a specific body of water (or with esoteric minerals and oils) at a specific time is pretty classic. Donating (aka sacrificing) a specific amount of time, resources, and karma to a worthy cause or mentor spirit.
HappyDaze
QUOTE
Donating (aka sacrificing) a specific amount of time, resources, and karma to a worthy cause or mentor spirit.

If you have a Spirit Pact, then making regular donations of earned Karma to the spirit of the pact could also be part of your Geas. Two birds, one stone.
ElFenrir
I'm a fan of it for Talismans-but for conditions, IMO, a lot of them are enough. Not being able to eat is enough of itself, IMO. To each their own, though. I mean, having to play an instrument for an hour a day upon waking up seems like it could, as said above, be pretty limiting at times. They should be blocks sometimes, but not always crippling. Getting sex once a day might be a bit difficult if you're in the middle of nowhere with no one you know around.

Rather than ''always 3'' for conditions, I'd do it by circumstance. Not eating or it's broken is enough in and of itself, as I said. The aformentioned ''never initiate combat'', now, that I'd tack on the clause of ''and never strike the first blow'' to, for two. Something like the ritual cutting? That seems pretty appropriate for 3(make the cut, don't bandage it and show the scar.) Just making a cut and not bandaging it might not be enough.

For an instrument, having to play the character's own for an hour a day seems reasonable. Being stuffed up in a flophouse would make that mighty difficult.

So yeah, for me, it would depend on the geas in question if it was enough or not.
Sir_Psycho
Getting sex every day isn't so hard if you have a team-mate with low willpower, and the Control Actions and Alter Memory spells. They'll never know. biggrin.gif
Draco18s
The sacrifice geas makes me go D:

As for the ritual sex geas, I actually did that for my 800 BP drake adept, "sex with a willing partner while in drake form." Mainly because it made me giggle.
TBRMInsanity
You could always do the whole Dragonball Z powerup thing for your adept (ie gesture geasa). You could even play it up with 20 min of banter for every 5 secs of fighting (like in the anime).
HappyDaze
And the grunting and straining...

Condition Geas: Must not have had a BM in the last 24 hours.
Draco18s
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Mar 9 2009, 12:21 PM) *
And the grunting and straining...

Condition Geas: Must not have had a BM in the last 24 hours.


All hail the constipation contest~! He who has the bigger blockage wins!
AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 9 2009, 05:52 PM) *
The sacrifice geas makes me go D:

As for the ritual sex geas, I actually did that for my 800 BP drake adept, "sex with a willing partner while in drake form." Mainly because it made me giggle.

Just to find a bastard GM that states that the partner must be in drake form as well.
TBRMInsanity
QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 9 2009, 12:56 PM) *
Just to find a bastard GM that states that the partner must be in drake form as well.


Out vile image! Out!
ElFenrir
Well, this thread took a rather unexpected turn. rotfl.gif
Jaid
QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Mar 9 2009, 02:24 PM) *
Well, this thread took a rather unexpected turn. rotfl.gif

i'll say...

where's the dikoted AVS ally spirit? silly.gif
AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Jaid @ Mar 9 2009, 10:03 PM) *
i'll say...

where's the dikoted AVS ally spirit? silly.gif

AVS?
AllTheNothing
QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Mar 9 2009, 08:24 PM) *
Well, this thread took a rather unexpected turn. rotfl.gif

Indeed, but you have to admit that you had what asked for: ideas.
Mx
QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 9 2009, 11:44 PM) *
AVS?

Ares Viper Slivergun
Draco18s
QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 9 2009, 01:56 PM) *
Just to find a bastard GM that states that the partner must be in drake form as well.


Oh, that character had a girlfriend who was also a drake. Never finished her 800 BP build though, I should revisit it (illusion mage, mmm Trid Phantasm and Orgasm...).
Sir_Psycho
Unrelated to this thread, I suddenly had a rush of inspiration tonight to create a brawler adept. In my copy of 20 questions there's a section for memorable quotes, and I wrote a little fictional paragraph to lead up to the speech.

The dwarf knelt, even though he was at least two heads shorter than what was left of the man he addressed, the bloodpool staining one knee of his slacks. Flecks on his boots. Bare knuckles and wiry arms crimson and slick with the stuff. You don€™t shake a man€™s hand with gloves on. Why should it be any different when you take a life?

Which made me decide the adept would have a Geas on his Killing Hands power that he needs to be bare-knuckled when using that power. Of course, because it's only a .5 power point adept power, the other .5 power points that will be reduced are penetrating strike and animal empathy.
ElFenrir
That could work. He'd be at a disadvantage on runs, perhaps-no gloves leave fingerprints. At the same time, though, it's just so easy to take off one's gloves before combat, so it might not be as much as a disadvantage as he'd like(and many times, doing stun damage to guards is infinitely better. No Death=much less punishment coming after you. But it would be a cool character thing, anyway, even without mechanical bonuses.

Nice little written/inspiring piece, though. I had also written one up for my guy, to try to get the feel of him. Sometimes writing a short little bit of fiction can help me figure out other things technical-wise. For those interested(a little off-topic of geasa but it was fun to write):

[ Spoiler ]

AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 9 2009, 11:31 PM) *
Oh, that character had a girlfriend who was also a drake. Never finished her 800 BP build though, I should revisit it (illusion mage, mmm Trid Phantasm and Orgasm...).

Well I suspect that it wouldn't be that much of a problem; anyway I had a drake mage that could have pulled off the having sex in drake form (only him, not the partner) as it happened that he had some bad experience with a Tir noblewoman (she had his parents tortured to death when he was six years old, he should have been pit trought the same process but the guard chose to spare him and gave him to some elves that were about to leave the Tir) and got his revenge by using her as living vessel for his ally spirit; however he never did it because the scales reduced his tactile sensitivity greatly reducing the pleasure of the act.
Draco18s
Haha, nice.
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