I was looking at the description of the homonculus Foci and ally spirits, then I looked at the odd drones thread, and a bizarre thought occured to me.
What if you combined a drone and a homonculus foci? Could you make an ally spirit which could also be jacked into with a VCD? Would the Spirit give the drone added power and abilities? Could the spirit fire turreted weapons? What if the drone had a robotic brain? If the Drone was also a car would the Rigger call it KIT?
I'll admit this is an odd notion but my current character is a rigger/shaman type so bizarre magic/tech combos are often on my mind.
Full Version: Ally Spirits and Drones
Interesting thought -- does orac...the magical metal...conduct electricity?
-Siege
-Siege
Orichalcum. I have absolutely no idea, but this thread is a thought I've had previously, and if it were workable it would rock.
~J
~J
Hmm, well Gold, Silver, and Copper are practically the best conductors in the entire metals world.
Mercury sucks compared to other metals.
Anyway since you can make Homonculi out of clay and wood (as well as stone and steel) I don't think they actually require being a conductor, much less pure orichalcum.
Mercury sucks compared to other metals.
Anyway since you can make Homonculi out of clay and wood (as well as stone and steel) I don't think they actually require being a conductor, much less pure orichalcum.
I was thinking more along the lines of the drone moreso than the foci.
That's just an icky thought...can you combine a homonuculus with cyberware or implant it in a magical person?
Hmm...
-Siege
That's just an icky thought...can you combine a homonuculus with cyberware or implant it in a magical person?
Hmm...
-Siege
On the most basic level you could just have your spirit manifest as a tiny person and put some controls in there. It could use the controls with vehicle skills, gunnery skills, SUT skills, electronic warfare skills, etc. It could even use sorcery through ballistic glass or a fiber-optic system.
Since that's possible I don't think it'd be a big deal to give it further levels of integration. If you hash something like that out with your GM, be sure to tell us about it
Since that's possible I don't think it'd be a big deal to give it further levels of integration. If you hash something like that out with your GM, be sure to tell us about it
I believe Orichalcum would conduct electricity, assuming it does follow at-least some of the laws of physics and all of its components conduct electricity. You would need to enchant the drone as a homonculous, and teach it skills like car, walker, gunnery, ETC but I think it would be possible.
Would it need skills like car and walker? It seems like the drone would be the body of the spirit, that would be like requiring the shadowrunner to have a "Walk" skill.
Gunnery, yeah I could see that though. Hmm, leads to some odd events when the spirit starts to become independent.
"Spark! Use Stunball!"
Spark fires a concussion grenade at the enemies.
"Er, good job."
Would the spirit then like you for buying it new toys for it's body as well as using Karma to upgrade it?
"Hey Spark, we're a little tight this month but it's still your birthday so you get your choice of presents. You can have a pair of mechanical arms with hand razors or I'll teach you the Electronics skill."
Gunnery, yeah I could see that though. Hmm, leads to some odd events when the spirit starts to become independent.
"Spark! Use Stunball!"
Spark fires a concussion grenade at the enemies.
"Er, good job."
Would the spirit then like you for buying it new toys for it's body as well as using Karma to upgrade it?
"Hey Spark, we're a little tight this month but it's still your birthday so you get your choice of presents. You can have a pair of mechanical arms with hand razors or I'll teach you the Electronics skill."
| QUOTE (Lilt @ Jan 11 2004, 06:19 PM) |
| I believe Orichalcum would conduct electricity, assuming it does follow at-least some of the laws of physics and all of its components conduct electricity. You would need to enchant the drone as a homonculous, and teach it skills like car, walker, gunnery, ETC but I think it would be possible. |
That's the thing. Orichalcum doesn't follow the laws of physics. It cannot possibly exist without the aid of magic.
As for conductivity... I'm not sure... Not all compounds copy their parent elements. In fact, most don't. Salt, for example, contains one very poisonous gas and one very explosive metal (when exposed to water).
"statement: your meatbag understanding of fiber-optic/electronic systems is too primitively febrile to be of any use to this unit. gimme the goddamn sooshi-fingers."
I now have the perfect villain for my next run. a free spirit (ex-ally) in a drone body. the spirit went free and got the power of Wealth, and has since been upgrading himself and hiring minions, buying karma... oh, this is gonna be nasty.
Remember, SR-tech does not use electrical wiring for any computing aspect. The only wires would be between the power cells and the engine (if battery or EFC). The circuitry is optical. Either way, you can use your orichalcum to make neat arcane symbols on the interior and it will help just as much as if you tried to make an orichalcum circuitboard (with less chance of technological failure).
Having a homonoculus drone would be an interesting novelty for the rigger/mage or an odd backup for when the drone's firepower is wanted and the rigger is busy or incapacitated.
Having a homonoculus drone would be an interesting novelty for the rigger/mage or an odd backup for when the drone's firepower is wanted and the rigger is busy or incapacitated.
| QUOTE (tanka) | ||
That's the thing. Orichalcum doesn't follow the laws of physics. It cannot possibly exist without the aid of magic. As for conductivity... I'm not sure... Not all compounds copy their parent elements. In fact, most don't. Salt, for example, contains one very poisonous gas and one very explosive metal (when exposed to water). |
nope. you're talking about the difference between a metal and an ion there (Na vs. Na+) that little electron makes a huge difference.
an alloy is just a mix of 2 metals kinda like mixing alcohol and water. it still has alot of the properties of the individual pieces, but it also has some unique properties (freezing point depression, etc). off hand, I would say the conductivity would be about that of the lowest conductor (Hg in this case).
Insane adept who hears his implanted spurs talking to him...and the blades are weapon focuses...
-Siege
-Siege
donuts, you should call your villain red robot.
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) |
| Remember, SR-tech does not use electrical wiring for any computing aspect. The only wires would be between the power cells and the engine (if battery or EFC). The circuitry is optical. Either way, you can use your orichalcum to make neat arcane symbols on the interior and it will help just as much as if you tried to make an orichalcum circuitboard (with less chance of technological failure). Having a homonoculus drone would be an interesting novelty for the rigger/mage or an odd backup for when the drone's firepower is wanted and the rigger is busy or incapacitated. |
well not just the engine, anything that requires power, like the turrets, the headlights, the radio, the sensor array, the coffee maker, etc.
My mistake, I forgot the coffee maker.
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) |
| My mistake, I forgot the coffee maker. |
Damn straight you did.
Fragging Horror...
| QUOTE (tanka) | ||
That's the thing. Orichalcum doesn't follow the laws of physics. It cannot possibly exist without the aid of magic. As for conductivity... I'm not sure... Not all compounds copy their parent elements. In fact, most don't. Salt, for example, contains one very poisonous gas and one very explosive metal (when exposed to water). |
I've always wondered about that. Why can't orichalcum exist without magic? There's nothing inherently absurd about it's chemical composition, I could probably whip some up in a few minutes if I had any mercury around, which I don't but still, it's a pretty simple alloy compared to some I've seen. I don't think real orichalcum would actually turn orange, probably look more like electrum unless you were putting a truckload of copper in it though.
| QUOTE |
| Remember, SR-tech does not use electrical wiring for any computing aspect. The only wires would be between the power cells and the engine (if battery or EFC). The circuitry is optical. Either way, you can use your orichalcum to make neat arcane symbols on the interior and it will help just as much as if you tried to make an orichalcum circuitboard (with less chance of technological failure). |
You're forgetting the golden rule of SR-tech and optical stuff.
They are only optical when the writers want it to be.
Examples:
Zapper Static Discharge Rocket from Cannon Companion. It's an electric rocket that sends a strong electrical surge into the vehicle. Because of this, it's antivehicular. It also somehow deals Riggers who might be using the drone remotely physical damage, but that's a problem with electricity in general.
Magnetic System from M&M is unable to interfere with computers and such on account of the fact that they're optical.
Right; it only I believe states that computers are optical, no other piece of electronics (not that it's accurate to call an optical computer electronics, but still).
~J
~J
To get back onto the original topic-- there's absolutely no reason why a drone or car can't be used as a homoniculi focus. The Enchanting TNs will be high, but it's entirely possible, and oricalcum isn't even required. The spirit could control it's own body, so it could fire turreted weapons; but it's ability to interact with the electronics and sensors would be limited at best. It wouldn't gain any special powers, but it would be significantly more capable than even the best robotic brain.
Yeah, I don't see why a homunculus foci couldn't be a fully functional drone. The drone has to have orichalcum somewhere, but it isn't entirely constructed of orichalcum, so it really doesn't matter how well that alloy conducts electricity. The drone/focus would have to use ammo like any normal drone; no magic ammo conjuration. I would allow it to have radio communication, but jacking into the matrix is a big no-no. Also, riggers wouldn't be able to control it directly, unless that rigger is also the mage who controls it, which is insane.
Oricalcum isn't required. It'll help, certainly, but it's not required to make a homoniculi focus, or any focus (other than maybe a weapon focus).
[Ancient-SR2-Rule!]Weapon Foci require Orichalcum.[/Ancient-SR2-Rule!]
Not sure about SR3, though. Never read it anywhere.
Not sure about SR3, though. Never read it anywhere.
| QUOTE (Panzergeist) |
| Yeah, I don't see why a homunculus foci couldn't be a fully functional drone. The drone has to have orichalcum somewhere, but it isn't entirely constructed of orichalcum, so it really doesn't matter how well that alloy conducts electricity. The drone/focus would have to use ammo like any normal drone; no magic ammo conjuration. I would allow it to have radio communication, but jacking into the matrix is a big no-no. Also, riggers wouldn't be able to control it directly, unless that rigger is also the mage who controls it, which is insane. |
There's already a "Create Food" spell. Logic dictates a "Create Ammo" spell is possible, albeit probably stupid given how much ammo a drone can normally pack. Hmm, teach your drone the manipulation spells "Repair Self" "Create Fuel" and "Create Ammo" and you have a near-infinite duration killing machine. With mechanical arms it can even use quite a few forms of Cyberware.
Which is why I banned the create food spell, and all spells that permanently create matter. It really causes a whole assload of problems.
Indeed. Nutrition and Fast ought to do just fine without the icky problems of permanent matter.
Unless... you could have Create Food that is just a combination of Nutrition and Fast with visual, tactile, olfactory, and (gah, I forget the technical term for taste) components, and maybe aural as well so you get the nice crunch from a carrot or the sound of soup being stirred. And maybe it magically is a hyper-efficient formula that doesn't have as much drain as its component parts might indicate.
Or something.
~J
Unless... you could have Create Food that is just a combination of Nutrition and Fast with visual, tactile, olfactory, and (gah, I forget the technical term for taste) components, and maybe aural as well so you get the nice crunch from a carrot or the sound of soup being stirred. And maybe it magically is a hyper-efficient formula that doesn't have as much drain as its component parts might indicate.
Or something.
~J
You'd have to ban Ice Sheet and Mist as well, and probably some others that don't immediately come to mind. Me, I don't see why creating matter is such a hassle as long as you're creative about the reasons that Create Enriched Uranium and Create Hope Diamond don't work.
I'd allow a "Create Diamond" spell. It would usually create a chunk of diamond with only a very small section that could be cut into a salesworthy gem.
I'd also allow a "Create Monowire" (assuming it is a carbon tube), yet you won't get much in the way of length.
"Create Enriched Uranium" would seek a stable form now instead of at the normal rate.
"Create Ford" would have a high TN, high drain, and leave out all the extras.
"Create Fjord" would just be entertaining.
I'd also allow a "Create Monowire" (assuming it is a carbon tube), yet you won't get much in the way of length.
"Create Enriched Uranium" would seek a stable form now instead of at the normal rate.
"Create Ford" would have a high TN, high drain, and leave out all the extras.
"Create Fjord" would just be entertaining.
What about Create Fnord?
~J
~J
If you ban any of the Create spells, you might as well ban all the elemental spells as well. Take lightning bolt for example, you are creating a bolt of lightning ie energy. By E=mc2, you are actually creating matter when you create energy. Thus if you want to ban one, you've got to ban all. By the way, you'll end up screwing the shamans with more dice in Elemental Manip. The spell system in SR3 (actually, most of the rules in SR3) are balanced on a razor's edge. If you change something, be sure to do an overhaul of the entire thing.
Next drone/spirit question.
When a spirit is placed into an animal as a host body, it adds it's force to the critter's physical attributes. When in a homonculus focus, the focus' force/2 is added to the spirit's physical attributes. It also automatically gains armor based on the makeup of the focus.
Which would work for a drone? My guess is something like this:
Since a drone has no quickness, use the spirit's own quickness. Keep the drone's vehicle speed.
Add the spirit's force to the Drone's body. If it goes into a legged drone keep it's existing movement speed as well.
Use the spirit's mental attributes.
Use the drone's armor rating. Maybe add the homonculus focus force/2 to this, but given that it's a vehicle we're already asking for trouble.
Also, would a spirit drone get to use vehicle goodies like autosofts, sonar, sensors, radio, and ECMs?
When a spirit is placed into an animal as a host body, it adds it's force to the critter's physical attributes. When in a homonculus focus, the focus' force/2 is added to the spirit's physical attributes. It also automatically gains armor based on the makeup of the focus.
Which would work for a drone? My guess is something like this:
Since a drone has no quickness, use the spirit's own quickness. Keep the drone's vehicle speed.
Add the spirit's force to the Drone's body. If it goes into a legged drone keep it's existing movement speed as well.
Use the spirit's mental attributes.
Use the drone's armor rating. Maybe add the homonculus focus force/2 to this, but given that it's a vehicle we're already asking for trouble.
Also, would a spirit drone get to use vehicle goodies like autosofts, sonar, sensors, radio, and ECMs?
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| By E=mc2, you are actually creating matter when you create energy. |
If that's the central point of your argument, then if you are capable of creating any sort of energy or matter with a spell, then you should be capable of creating every sort of energy and matter with a spell -- causing fusion and fission reactions should be extremely simple. And, using e=mc^2, if you're capable of creating, say, 100g of matter (with the Create Food spell for example), then creating a nice 8.99PJs of energy should be just as easy. For those of you not familiar with the SI decimal number prefixes, that's 8.99 Petajoules, or 8,987,551,787,368,176 Joules to be accurate.
That's about enough to turn 3.4 million cubic meters (a medium sized lake, for example) of 10 degrees C water into gas. Or enough to heat 19.4 billion tonnes of room-temperature steel to 1000 degrees C. It's also enough to propel an M1A2 Abrams to a speed of 508,415m/s, or an empty IOWA-class battleship to a speed of 38,639m/s.
So let's forget about the whole e=mc^2 business, mmkay?
I've gotten rid of Create Food as well, and limit creating matter to pure elements and some very rare misc oddities.
I honestly don't see why someone couldn't have "Create Nuclear Blast" spell, although the power levels required to use the spell would rival the Great Ghost Dance for all practical purposes.
Particularly since you can generate laser beams if you're so inclined.
-Siege
Particularly since you can generate laser beams if you're so inclined.
-Siege
I'm sure magicians have succeeded in creating small nuclear blasts. They are just not alive anymore. 
Heh, "create antimatter-food". 
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