- Is the island of Newfoundland, part of Québec, or part of UCAS?
The latter makes more sense for a variety of reasons, but the lack of a border line between it and the mainland muddies the issue. - Are Accomack and Northampton Counties really still part of Virginia, CAS?
Based on older maps, I had always assumed they were amongst the counties that split off to form North Virginia, UCAS. - Concord, New Hampshire is misspelled.
- Why is the small town of Montpelier, Vermont on the map, while the city of Burlington is not?
- This is actually also on older SR maps, but since I was asking the other questions, I had to include this one.
- For the record, while Montpelier is the capital, it is also very much a small town (the population is only 8,000).
- Burlington Vermont (and its suburbs) are almost half the state’s total population, and four times the population of greater Barre (which includes Montpelier).
Full Version: SR4A - Map questions.
First let me say that the new book looks great, and I approve of most of the changes I am aware of. The questions below arise mostly because the included map shows more of North America than previous versions (a good thing).
Does the new edition comes with more maps?
I mean, maybe the old 2nd edition Seattle and Salish-Sidhe maps? Or something else entirely?
I mean, maybe the old 2nd edition Seattle and Salish-Sidhe maps? Or something else entirely?
QUOTE (silva @ Mar 15 2009, 06:47 AM) 
Does the new edition comes with more maps?
I mean, maybe the old 2nd edition Seattle and Salish-Sidhe maps? Or something else entirely?
I mean, maybe the old 2nd edition Seattle and Salish-Sidhe maps? Or something else entirely?
Not more maps, but the back page North America one has been re-vamped into a blue, vaguely-photographic one that goes from the Trans-Polar Aleut in the North right down through Atzlan to the Northern parts of Amazonia.
I believe the standard term is "shiny".
K.
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Mar 15 2009, 07:25 AM)
- Is the island of Newfoundland, part of Québec, or part of UCAS?
The latter makes more sense for a variety of reasons, but the lack of a border line between it and the mainland muddies the issue.
According to the map in Shadows of North America, Newfoundland is a canadian state within the UCAS.
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Mar 15 2009, 07:25 AM)
- Why is the small town of Montpelier, Vermont on the map, while the city of Burlington is not?
- This is actually also on older SR maps, but since I was asking the other questions, I had to include this one.
- For the record, while Montpelier is the capital, it is also very much a small town (the population is only 8,000).
- Burlington Vermont (and its suburbs) are almost half the state’s total population, and four times the population of greater Barre (which includes Montpelier).
I guess they put Montpelier on the map, and not Burlington, because one is a state capital, and the other is not. That kind of discrimination is common enough in cartography. Otherwise, RL US Census has 196 metropolitan area, and Canada 17, that are bigger than Burlington and should appear on the map before considering adding the largest sprawl in Vermont.
I'm pretty sure Montpelier is noted in Vermont because it's the capital. It seems like they went with the default of noting the capital and then some extra cities if there was space.
And yeah, Concord, New Hampshire is spelled wrong. I'm surprised I didn't notice that, since I work there.
And yeah, Concord, New Hampshire is spelled wrong. I'm surprised I didn't notice that, since I work there.
QUOTE (Nath @ Mar 15 2009, 07:09 AM)
According to the map in Shadows of North America, Newfoundland is a canadian state within the UCAS.
Hey, man. Capitalize that "c" in "canadian"!
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 15 2009, 08:55 PM)
Hey, man. Capitalize that "c" in "canadian"!
My bad, adjectives ain't capitalized in my native language 
Oh yeah, I should have known that, being Canadian and all.... 
So, no information on Accomack and Northampton counties with respect to Virginia vs. North Virginia?
I just added a related map of Virginia to the Sixth World Wiki.
I just added a related map of Virginia to the Sixth World Wiki.
I have also noticed that the line across Florida is not quite right. Past maps and the text from Cyberpirates! show that the settled coast up to, and including Boca Raton is part of South Florida.
You know, I'm still hitting my head on the wall for that Concord misspell.
I'm glad people like the new map. I particularly liked "shiny" as a description
Mike
I'm glad people like the new map. I particularly liked "shiny" as a description
Mike
You know what would be really nice? A verbal description of each of the borders.
I was trying to plot the thing onto a Google Map for our Missions group and it's just murder. It is obvious that many of the new borders follow existing features but which ones they are is almost impossible to ascertain from such large scale maps.
edit - And why do so many of the borders in and around Denver seem to follow roads? That's just dumb. How are you supposed to police an international border that runs along a road with 50 on and off ramps?
I was trying to plot the thing onto a Google Map for our Missions group and it's just murder. It is obvious that many of the new borders follow existing features but which ones they are is almost impossible to ascertain from such large scale maps.
edit - And why do so many of the borders in and around Denver seem to follow roads? That's just dumb. How are you supposed to police an international border that runs along a road with 50 on and off ramps?
QUOTE (otaku mike @ Mar 25 2009, 05:01 AM)
You know, I'm still hitting my head on the wall for that Concord misspell.
I'm glad people like the new map. I particularly liked "shiny" as a description
Mike
I presume from the above that you are Mikael Brodu. Many thanks for the best looking map we've gotten to date for North America. I like the blue background colors, and that the scope was enlarged a bit from past maps to show all of Aztlan and Quebec.I'm glad people like the new map. I particularly liked "shiny" as a description
Mike
Will you be able to make adjustments before the next PDF release and the print release?
Of the things I pointed out above, I think the biggest issue is that North Virginia is not shown as a UCAS state, and that the FDC regional border (cut out of both Maryland and North Virginia) around Washington D.C. is also not shown.
The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America (map section) shows North Virginia as part of the UCAS and Virginia as part of the CAS (right along the traditional state borders). Labrador is now part of Quebec (which I feel is a stretch but oh well), though Newfoundland is part of the UCAS. Austin is a border town between the CAS and Azland, while San Antonio if fully in Azland.
Actually, I'm surprised Québec didn't shrink. The large, northern part between Hudson's Bay and Labrador was ceded to Québec in 1912, and has always been more Inuit and Cree than anything else. The Cree in particular would have wanted to keep the hydro-electric facilities leading into James Bay as a major source of income and regional influence.
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 25 2009, 01:58 PM)
Actually, I'm surprised Québec didn't shrink. The large, northern part between Hudson's Bay and Labrador was ceded to Québec in 1912, and has always been more Inuit and Cree than anything else. The Cree in particular would have wanted to keep the hydro-electric facilities leading into James Bay as a major source of income and regional influence.
A lot of the First Nations in that area really hate the Quebec government. They tend to do things like shoot phone and power lines so they won't work.
My wife and I rent cottage land on an island, First Nations reserve in Georgian Bay. Those cottagers who don't get along with the locals tend to come back in the spring and find bullet holes in their windows and all the liquor gone.
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Mar 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
I presume from the above that you are Mikael Brodu. Many thanks for the best looking map we've gotten to date for North America. I like the blue background colors, and that the scope was enlarged a bit from past maps to show all of Aztlan and Quebec.
Will you be able to make adjustments before the next PDF release and the print release?
Of the things I pointed out above, I think the biggest issue is that North Virginia is not shown as a UCAS state, and that the FDC regional border (cut out of both Maryland and North Virginia) around Washington D.C. is also not shown.
Will you be able to make adjustments before the next PDF release and the print release?
Of the things I pointed out above, I think the biggest issue is that North Virginia is not shown as a UCAS state, and that the FDC regional border (cut out of both Maryland and North Virginia) around Washington D.C. is also not shown.
Yep, that's me the culprit
I wanted to show the southern Aztlan border because it wasn't shown in previous maps, and it had always bugged me that Aztlan was such a big player in Shadowrun, yet its southern border was unknown (save for the people who had the original Aztlan sourcebook).
Thanks for the praise. I'm happy with the result myself, and it's going to look very nice in print as a full page map.
Changes can be done, and probably will (I need to see with Adam if he wants me to do them, or if he's gonna take care of this himself). However, these changes would apply only to an updated/errataed PDF (if it ever comes), not to the print version, as it is too late for that. If (big IF) a second printing of the SR4A is produced, then I imagine it would be integrated along with the rest of the errata.
So, no changes in the immediate future. But we'll certainly keep that in mind if the opportunity to correct these issues in a newer version of the PDF or a new printing ever comes up.
Mike
So the in-universe explanation is obviously that CAS propagandists got to the map maker; since it shows both North Virginia, and a bit of South Florida as CAS territory
Thanks for the detailed response. IF you do get a chance to revise the map, consider adding:
• Guantanamo Bay (UCAS)
• Bermuda (UK)
Given how divided the continent has become, others probably still wonder if any of the Caribbean is in outside hands, and by showing both exceptions you answer the question.
New map questions:
Thanks for the detailed response. IF you do get a chance to revise the map, consider adding:
• Guantanamo Bay (UCAS)
• Bermuda (UK)
Given how divided the continent has become, others probably still wonder if any of the Caribbean is in outside hands, and by showing both exceptions you answer the question.
New map questions:
- State of the Art: 2064 (page 23) mentions Barbados as still being UK territory. Cyberpirates! implies—via its map, and lack of commentary—that Barbados is part of the Cariibean League. Which is correct?
- Are the various Virgin Islands fully part of the C.L. or do they still belong to the UCAS and UK respectively?
I ask since the map in Cyberpirates! muddies the issue by still using the terms "U.S. Virgin Islands" and "British Virgin Islands". IF as I supect that are part of the C.L. then the map should just show the island name possibly with ", Virgin Islands" to show a common regional government within the C.L.
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 25 2009, 12:42 PM)
The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America (map section) shows North Virginia as part of the UCAS and Virginia as part of the CAS (right along the traditional state borders). Labrador is now part of Quebec (which I feel is a stretch but oh well), though Newfoundland is part of the UCAS. Austin is a border town between the CAS and Azland, while San Antonio if fully in Azland.
Most current North Am map as of SONA is almost identical to the map in SR4a, guessing this was the reference material.
I could be wrong but I seem to remember some North Virgina counties going north but most of state going to the CAS.
As I stated before, North Virginia (as per the Neo Anarcist's Guide to North America) is fully part of the UCAS. I'm guessing that North Virginia would be renamed Virginia and you would have Virginia, UCAS and Virginia, CAS now.
I think that Bermuda and Guantanamo Bay are part of the Caribbean league now. When the US pulled back its troops, you would think that would include Guantanamo. If they didn't I would think that the CAS would control it not the UCAS. It would be an extra expense with little advantage to the UCAS.
I think that Bermuda and Guantanamo Bay are part of the Caribbean league now. When the US pulled back its troops, you would think that would include Guantanamo. If they didn't I would think that the CAS would control it not the UCAS. It would be an extra expense with little advantage to the UCAS.
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 26 2009, 04:38 PM)
I think that Bermuda and Guantanamo Bay are part of the Caribbean league now. When the US pulled back its troops, you would think that would include Guantanamo. If they didn't I would think that the CAS would control it not the UCAS. It would be an extra expense with little advantage to the UCAS.
QUOTE
Cyberpirates, pages 34-35
> Ares worked out some kind of deal with the UCAS government and sub-leased Guantanamo Bay, the old USA military base on Cuba. I guess someone in the FDC decided if the UCAS couldn't maintain it, Ares - the UCAS military megacorp - could, and then just allow the UCAS to use it as needed. [Cuba head-of-state] Martinez probably fears Ares much more than he does the UCAS military; corps have an even worse reputation for taking what they want than the UCAS. So he makes real sure not to hork off Knight or any of his minions. Cuba's tried to buy the area back numerous times, but the UCAS has held on tight since the CAS seceded, and this Ares deal only makes them stronger there. If it comes to a war between the UCAS and CAS, a base in the Carib is the best chance for the UCAS to fight without damaging their capital.
> Maiden UCAS
> A war between the UCAS and CAS isn't very likely. It's more like the UCAS wants - no, make that needs - a base from which to watch Aztechnology and the Panama Canal.
> Dr.Happy@na.socal.la.UCLA.Hispop.edu
> Ares worked out some kind of deal with the UCAS government and sub-leased Guantanamo Bay, the old USA military base on Cuba. I guess someone in the FDC decided if the UCAS couldn't maintain it, Ares - the UCAS military megacorp - could, and then just allow the UCAS to use it as needed. [Cuba head-of-state] Martinez probably fears Ares much more than he does the UCAS military; corps have an even worse reputation for taking what they want than the UCAS. So he makes real sure not to hork off Knight or any of his minions. Cuba's tried to buy the area back numerous times, but the UCAS has held on tight since the CAS seceded, and this Ares deal only makes them stronger there. If it comes to a war between the UCAS and CAS, a base in the Carib is the best chance for the UCAS to fight without damaging their capital.
> Maiden UCAS
> A war between the UCAS and CAS isn't very likely. It's more like the UCAS wants - no, make that needs - a base from which to watch Aztechnology and the Panama Canal.
> Dr.Happy@na.socal.la.UCLA.Hispop.edu
It should be noted that Cyberpirates was written in 1997. To most people, Guantanamo was just a military base then.
I stand corrected. I will have to double check on Bermuda as well then.
Edit:
Double checked it. Bermuda is clearly within the borders of the Caribbean League and not a protectorate of Britain any more. (BBB Map of North America 2070)
Edit:
Double checked it. Bermuda is clearly within the borders of the Caribbean League and not a protectorate of Britain any more. (BBB Map of North America 2070)
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