Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: SR4 GM Newbie questions
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Athenor
Hey everyone.

I've been around Shadowrun since about 1999, off and on. However, due to circumstances outside my control I've been able to do ANY gaming since 2004. Well, I've entered a new social circle, and with that came a fairly quick request that I run a game. Whee for that! Now if only I weren't panicking as much as I am...

See, while I was fairly competent with 3rd edition, 4th is a whole new ballgame. I read the BB and Street Magic cover to cover back when they came out, then died away as I had no reason to keep up with it. That changed in the last couple months, as I now own every 4th edition book outside of On the Run, Ghost Cartels, and the PDF's.


Up to this point I've run two adventures: A basic gang beat-em-up and a B&E on a low-level trid station. The first session basically involved my team murdering the gangers I threw at them without any hesitation. The second game... well, went poorly because it took 5 hours of them doing legwork and prep and planning, all to have the action end in about 15-30 minutes as they found an external jackpoint.

Basically, I'm looking for help getting things stabilized. I'm not entirely comfortable with 4th edition's rules yet, at least not enough to do things on the fly. This hurt last session, as it was the "Matrix tutorial" and a lot of things got screwed up.


1) How do I balance NPC's against my players? I have Mr. Johnson's LBB, but that more gives advice for 3rd edition. My players are fairly eclectic at that, with the only combat heavy guy having to more or less drop out due to real life scheduling concerns. In the first session my players didn't even blink at the opposition, and the final boss only got lucky in getting off one shot before he was dropped.

The group composition is basically a skill monkey patterned after the main character of Burn Notice, a drone rigger going for a steampunk theme (the only player who's played 4th edition before, BTW), a hedge witch specializing in illusion who barely knows how to use a gun and isn't combat oriented, and a "former MIT&T" security systems specialist who is half mage, half hacker. My fifth would've been a troll gun-bunny type, but he's the one backing out.

2) I'm running these initial runs as a kind of "tutorial" to the game. The first was combat, and getting the basic structures down. The second, which kind of diffused, was the Matrix tutorial.. Sorta. The next session, which is tomorrow, is going to be the Magic tutorial. After that.. Well, I'm not sure what else there is to go over, and I am still trying to figure out how to end the arc they are on and graduate them up to the level of full shadowrunners.

So I guess the question is... Any advice for doing a magic tutorial? I know I want to throw a spirit at them, but other than that in terms of magic I think I'm tapped out.

3) I got called a dick last session by one of my players. This is still burning at me -- basically I kind of did a cheshire grin to get my players to pick up on the idea that they were doing something wrong, and when they finally asked about it they got pissed at me. They figure that their characters should know how to properly clean their tracks and all that, even if the players don't. While this is a valid complaint, I feel that if I go down that route it'll be abused. So how do I balance the new players' versus the characters' knowledge, and furthermore what would be the best way to tip off the players that they are doing something insanely wrong? Please note that none of them have the quality of "common sense," if it even still exists in the Runner's Companion.

4)This is for my own personal scheming for later: Is it possible to make a focus/talisman that serves as the equivalent of masking metamagic? In essence I want to introduce a drake to the game, but I don't want my two magically awakened characters to flip astral and suddenly be blinded by him when he's trying to keep his nature hidden.


Thanks in advance for any help you can give. I know it's a lot I'm asking, but after last session I'm kind of paranoid about my ability as a GM.

(edit: Damn, sorry, I thought this was more readable than this, that my paras were longer. Sorry! )
knasser

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
Hey everyone.

I've been around Shadowrun since about 1999, off and on. However, due to circumstances outside my control I've been able to do ANY gaming since 2004. Well, I've entered a new social circle, and with that came a fairly quick request that I run a game. Whee for that! Now if only I weren't panicking as much as I am...


Hey Athenor,

Welcome back.

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
Up to this point I've run two adventures: A basic gang beat-em-up and a B&E on a low-level trid station. The first session basically involved my team murdering the gangers I threw at them without any hesitation. The second game... well, went poorly because it took 5 hours of them doing legwork and prep and planning, all to have the action end in about 15-30 minutes as they found an external jackpoint.

Basically, I'm looking for help getting things stabilized. I'm not entirely comfortable with 4th edition's rules yet, at least not enough to do things on the fly. This hurt last session, as it was the "Matrix tutorial" and a lot of things got screwed up.


Matrix can be tricky. I have some example Matrix sites on my own site here but they were written before Unwired arrived so they're a little out of date (though still legitimate). Might be useful for future use, though.

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
1) How do I balance NPC's against my players? I have Mr. Johnson's LBB, but that more gives advice for 3rd edition. My players are fairly eclectic at that, with the only combat heavy guy having to more or less drop out due to real life scheduling concerns. In the first session my players didn't even blink at the opposition, and the final boss only got lucky in getting off one shot before he was dropped.

The group composition is basically a skill monkey patterned after the main character of Burn Notice, a drone rigger going for a steampunk theme (the only player who's played 4th edition before, BTW), a hedge witch specializing in illusion who barely knows how to use a gun and isn't combat oriented, and a "former MIT&T" security systems specialist who is half mage, half hacker. My fifth would've been a troll gun-bunny type, but he's the one backing out.


Balance in Shadowrun is a little different to some games because it's very easy for a battle to go one way or the other. Eggshells armed with hammers is the general Shadowrun philosophy toward combat. One solution to the problem is to simply side step it all together by emphasizing to the players that they need to rely on stealth and try to get them into more of a non-combat mindset. That also sets up a situation where you can dynamically alter the opposition as needed. I.e. if they get in a fight with some guards and it's too easy, then the reinforcements are on their way. If they've had the whole run too easy then maybe the reinforcements arrive as the players have completed whatever they were meant to do and the players can do a fighting retreat. Shadowrun is very dynamic so it's quite easy to adjust opposition on the fly, just start off low. The one thing I'd caution you on if you do this is to make sure you foreshadow everything so that the players don't see you arbitrarily adding enemies just because they're "doing well." Let them know that the sound of gunfire will draw other guards or that a tripped alarm gives them limited time before the HTR team arrive.

That said, your group don't sound very interested in combat based on their characters. I would try and shift the focus of any combats away from kill the enemy and toward achieving other objectives with any enemy acting as a complication. E.g. upload the virus while holding off the guards. Encourage non-combat solutions to things like the Hedge Witch sending the security team the wrong way with a good illusion, etc.

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
2) I'm running these initial runs as a kind of "tutorial" to the game. The first was combat, and getting the basic structures down. The second, which kind of diffused, was the Matrix tutorial.. Sorta. The next session, which is tomorrow, is going to be the Magic tutorial. After that.. Well, I'm not sure what else there is to go over, and I am still trying to figure out how to end the arc they are on and graduate them up to the level of full shadowrunners.


Reward them with a few contacts. The introductory mission I ran for my last group didn't pay so well, but they got three good contacts out of it who they immediately used to generate the next adventure.

Be careful with your tutorials to let everyone have a role in the game, even if #3 is magic. Magic has its weaknesses also (notably technology) so there can be something for everyone to do.

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
So I guess the question is... Any advice for doing a magic tutorial? I know I want to throw a spirit at them, but other than that in terms of magic I think I'm tapped out.


Lots of things you could do. You need to expose them to spell casting as well as spirits. Give the magical characters an opportunity to use their Astral sight so they can start to get a feel for how the two worlds work. You could even throw a ghoul or other dual-natured beastie in there to surprise them.

You could throw in a low-force Free Spirit, because that lets you introduce an interesting character who wont vanish when a service runs out. She could be teamed with a magician shadowrunner perhaps. Do you have any of this adventure mapped out, yet? But use low-force spirits. If a team isn't prepared for spirits they can be pretty dangerous. Beware of Engulf for example. You should encourage the team mage(s) to summon their own spirits so have a good handle on what you will rule counts as a service or not. I tend to keep a fairly tight reign on these and spirits need only obey the instructions, they're not obliged to do so with utmost dedication - i.e. they aren't a second PC for a player to control or demand to spend Edge when carrying out their tasks.

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
3) I got called a dick last session by one of my players. This is still burning at me -- basically I kind of did a cheshire grin to get my players to pick up on the idea that they were doing something wrong, and when they finally asked about it they got pissed at me. They figure that their characters should know how to properly clean their tracks and all that, even if the players don't. While this is a valid complaint, I feel that if I go down that route it'll be abused. So how do I balance the new players' versus the characters' knowledge, and furthermore what would be the best way to tip off the players that they are doing something insanely wrong? Please note that none of them have the quality of "common sense," if it even still exists in the Runner's Companion.


Well I wasn't there so I don't know how it sounded, but that you're still hacked off about it suggests it wasn't very nice. You don't need to stand for that. Possibly your cheshire grin was taken as insulting when you meant it to be helpful which is unfortunate but there's no need for them to insult you. Maybe you need to reassure them that it's not GM vs. Players. If you can get them into some role-playing situations, then other runners can give them advice or pass along stories where someone got caught by using a real SIN or something. But the best thing to do is to start them off slowly on this sort of thing. Don't plunge them into runs where Lone Star is going to be combing the crime scene for strands of hair and skin flakes. Let them go up against some Mobs or an out of town NAN smuggling operation or something. Aim to introduce the pitfalls... fake SINS, DNA evidence, Astral Signatures, etc. one by one and give some forewarning.

For a new group, I started doing minor news bulletins and down-time events as a means of encouraging role-playing and communicating information about the world. Work it in wherever you can. Give them a fixer who specialises in forging credsticks or a landlord who used to be an Ancient. The players will love all the details. If there's bad blood from last time, show the players that you want to amend the situation that caused it and things will work out. You are correct that you don't want the players to depend on you for warnings each time they're about to do something daft. So make sure they have reason to know what would be a daft thing to do and then they'll blame themselves not you if they do it. But increase the things they need to be careful of by degrees, not all at once.

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
4)This is for my own personal scheming for later: Is it possible to make a focus/talisman that serves as the equivalent of masking metamagic? In essence I want to introduce a drake to the game, but I don't want my two magically awakened characters to flip astral and suddenly be blinded by him when he's trying to keep his nature hidden.


If the drake is awakened, give them the Masking (BBB) and maybe the Extended Masking (SM) metamagics. That should take care of it. SM also includes Masking Foci which add their dice to the initiate grade of the masked magician if you're worried about them penetrating the aura. Make sure to tell them that Masking can be done if they don't know (but not immediately before you introduce the PC wink.gif ).

QUOTE (Athenor @ Mar 19 2009, 07:00 PM) *
Thanks in advance for any help you can give. I know it's a lot I'm asking, but after last session I'm kind of paranoid about my ability as a GM.


It will come back to you, it just takes practice to get back into it. One piece of advice I'll give is to roll in plenty of description and little details. It can be intimidating when you have all the players sitting opposite and waiting to roll some dice, but it's worth it for what it adds long term. When the fire spirit appears, it's not "a fire spirit" but a "cackling little figure of flame". The lightening spell doesn't "hit the guard" but arcs from the magician's fingers to the guards chest shedding electric blue light through the semi-dark room. Get them enganged in the world and they'll forgive you a lot of little mistakes.

Hope this helps. Post back to say how it went and good luck. Just remember to have fun and the rest will come naturally.

Khadim.
Athenor
Ah yeah, I guess I forgot to spell out what my adventure is.

Basically, it's played out like this:

The players, through only a little prodding from me, set up a "commune" where 3 of them were slummers living in a building. The talismonger/hedge witch bought her place first, then the amnesiac superspy and the eccentric drone rigger built their characters in.

The fourth char, the security specialist, fell through the roof because he OD'ed on something and was being transported to a hospital... and his heli got shot down by a rocket launcher. This then segue'd into taking out the gang (a branch from the Rusted Stilettos, they are right near the Barrens) and getting recommended as a shadowrunning team. They're currently working for the Yakuza and know it, about to start mission 3 of what I'm thinking will be a 6 mission arc as the Yakuza start having them do darker and darker shit. (The trid station run was basically to deliver a video edit that painted the local Mafia as bad, as opposed to the Yakuza as originally broadcast).

The next mission is going to be an escort; they are going to escort 1-2 people to a meet deep in the barrens. That's all the players know so far. My plan is to have it really be a theft of telesma or something, where shit hits the fan and the players have to finish the recovery as shit gets flung at them. I was going to incorporate vehicular chase rules into this as well, as the magicians do already have a grasp on how to use their magic, so it would get boring without something more. I know the vehicle combat rules are difficult/lame, but I always LOVED that cinematic concept. Plus it gives the drone rigger a chance to shine and get a new toy out of it, as he didn't have the resources to buy a vehicle in chargen.

Which I guess brings up another question that I've been wondering about: When doing chase combat, do you further break it down into standard combat, or does everyone (passengers included) follow the chase combat rules?
knasser
How about having only some minor magical touches to their official opposition - i.e. the Telesma they're unknowingly stealing is held by some gang or group that just has a low-power Sorcery, Astrally or Enchantment aspected member. Then balance and new rules isn't so much of a concern because you're just adding a little flavour to the systems you've already used. BUT, the telesma is stolen, perhaps from Tir Taingire forests and something wants it back. I'd suggest a fairly powerful Beast spirit has been dispatched (it could even be Free). Foreshadow it well, letting them know something is stalking the neighbourhood where they've arrived with locals afraid, something large flickering through the shadows of an alley in the rain, etc. It's looking for the telesma but they don't know that. This way you have the opportunity to really showcase what spirits can do without having to directly pit them against a dangerous one because it can also be directed against their enemies. Give them hints as to the backstory and they'll figure out a way to exploit it and they'll enjoy doing so from the sound of the characters they've chosen. I'm partial to Beast spirits myself just because I love to see them run after cars. Just like dogs except they catch them. wink.gif

Or you could have a pack of four or five lower Force ones for that pack feel. It also lets you gauge their power against the spirits because you can add them in one by one.

If the spirits have been dispatched by a magician in the Tir, then you've added a new player in the shadows who might even be a good new contact. if the Telesma is returned, the spirits might take it and their master might be favourable to the players and even reward them.

Just some thoughts. Remember - describe the spirits and give them personality. The higher the Force, the more depth and character they should have. A Force 1 fire elemental is like a mischevious sprite that just wants to burn things, or it could be a salamander like beast or a Will O' Wisp like flame, but that's all it is. A Force 4 is a strong personality perhaps taking the form of a flaming man. A Force 5 or 6 is far smarter than most humans and could be a Knight of the Plane of Fire, a Phoenix like form with a 9' (3m) wingspan or a floating, disembodied taloned hand of flame. Go wild and have fun!

For chase combat, blend normal actions, e.g. spells, astral projection in as normal - but be prepared to make judgements on where everyone is on the fly. Make it clear when you go to Chase Combat that everything has just shifted to a slightly different footing. If things come to a sudden halt, just sketch out a random street scene and restart normal combat. Throw in some odd modifiers and choices for the team, e.g. do they want to head down further into the Barrens where the roads are badly maintained and the rigger's driving skills might help them lose their pursuers, or pull out onto the freeway and try to outpace them?

Extra points if both parties are being chased by slavering Beast spirits that go Astral every now and then and appear on top of the moving cars biting through the roof before being thrown off. wink.gif

K.
crazyconscript
Here's a little bit i have learned from playing+running games.

1-Combat: The most important thing in making enemies dangerous is making them act intelligently. I had 3 players who were almost taken out by 4 un-augmented cops because the cops were using cover, and delaying their actions. The cops had managed to corner the runners, and didn't all fire in the same IP. 1 put down suppressive fire, one took aimed shotgun shots, and the other two delayed in case one of the runners broke cover, firing only in the last IP. The runners survived thanks to one of them having the sense to make a metal table into a barricade and lobbing a frag grenade. Oh, and tasers/stun batons are a cops best friend cool.gif

2-Magic: Having a free spirit interact with the players can be an interesting introduction to the astral. I had the runners searching through a dump infested with ghouls, and the resident toxic spirit decided they would be interesting to talk to. No aggressive intentions from him (though the mage was SEVERELY creeped out when he tried assensing), he was just really creepy and detached. They ended up getting help on how to avoid one of the ghoul packs from him...though he kept following them for a while. In another run, they wanted to steal something from a catholic theurge, and were confronted with an intimidatingly perfect angel (spirit of man ally spirit) who barred their way.

3-Matrix: I'm afraid i can't really offer any advice on this front....but always warn the technomancer that other players get annoyed when he spends 15-20mins compiling sprites while they wait mad.gif
Athenor
Oh My.. I frakking LOVE the beast spirit idea, thank you SO much!
Dashifen
One way to balance the bad guys is to specifically under-stat them but give them a mid-range to upper-ranged (group) Edge score. Then, you can step things up by having them throw Edge to enhance their other was slightly under-par statistics and, if the combat is going the wrong way you can relax on the use of Edge. I usually find that it's usually easier for under-par bad guys to step up using tactics and Edge than it is bring down highly capable opposition if I want to avoid a total player kill. Granted, sometimes TPK can be a good learning experience, but usually it just turns into an arms race.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012