Streetfight!

Background

The Burning Wheel system grew out of a homebrew of Shadowrun 1e, switching to a fixed TN in the process (this was before SR4 went fixed TN). It is "grittier" than Shadowrun in that the characters have abilities closer to human norm, it isn't as over the top. It also has things like Circles and other ways of resolving conflict that are very useful for a Shadowrun type game, as well as its "use a Skill to advance it" system. I've actually tried importing Circles and Resources into SR4, with mixed results.

What I've Built So Far

Now I'm coming at it from the other direction. A huge barrier to this though is that the combat systems in BW are NOT made for modern warfare and the combat sub-systems in Burning Empires isn't really built for the personal level of action of Shadowrun (because BE isn't built to be a game focused on individuals like most RPGs are). So I went back to the drawing board and blew up Fight! and Range & Cover to create a combat sub-system from scratch that mixes guns and knives in modern combat scenarios typical to what you'd see in Shadowrun games.

I call it Streetfight!, and I've done some initial work with actual play. It's gone very well, it gives a tactical firmness to combat that is missing even from Shadowrun while allowing a hand scribbled map and not requiring you to break out the tape measure to play.

Where You Come In

I'm looking for people, preferably at the start with some exposure to Burning Wheel play, to further refine this. It isn't a full 6th World implementation yet, I haven't laid out the Lifepaths or how to add metahumans. I also don't have the decker/hacking rules ready for people to test. The decker/hacking is coming soon though because the live play of combat feels close enough that I can assume it as a solid base to tailor the decking/hacking to. One cornerstone I laid out at the beginning of this is being able to do that scene on the front of the SR 1e/2e core book! I'm confident I can do this now.

If you have questions shoot but I'll warn you I'm going to be a bit vague because I don't want to poison playtesting. If you have one or more other folks that together you can try this out please email me at send_junk_to_me_now@hotmail.com. I'll email you the 6 pages plus the scripting sheet.




What Is In It For You

If you appreciate how Burning Wheel fixes some deep seated problems with playing RPGs but still want to get your 6th World on, and are dismayed by the lack of modern combat support in Burning Wheel, here's your solution!

Thanks for your time reading this and I hope to hear from you soon.

.dwight

Have you tried Two Hour Wargames' Chain Reaction 3.0 system? It's much less complicated than SR4, but includes a serious set of reaction based rules that appear to simulate a skirmish-level firefight much better than anything else I've ever seen. Blend in a bit of Mojo for the spell slingers (shouldn't be too hard) and I think you have a set up that puts Shadowrun DMZ to shame. Best of all? It's available as a free download.

I fell in love with Burning Wheel at I-Con years ago. Actually have my name in the book for playtesting and minor rules design. I would love to see what you have written up. I'm not sure I'll be able to help with your conversions just yet, I'm redoing a few things in SR4A at the moment. As well as adapting SR4 systems to Palladium. (Palladium settings are cool, hate mechanics)

Thanks for that link, that looks interesting. But that is a separate combat game, looks a tad more detailed than I'm looking for (and likely not the tone I'm looking for), and appears to focus more on military setting/scenarios? This is for use fully integrated into the RPG (which includes a bunch of other goodies) using the same dice mechanics system throughout and be more encompassing in the type of combat supported to include barroom brawls and such. Magic is included because the larger system already has magic (that is largely patterned after Shadowrun incidentally). If I had to try adapt magic into Chain Reaction I'd end up with more work and rules methinks, and it'd still feel tacked on (because it would be ).

Send me an email, promise you'll set aside an hour some time with at least one other person to run a skirmish, and I'll send it.

If you (or anyone else) wants I can send the characters (PCs and NPCs) that we drew up for our testing so far. Jules Burn & Greeves vs Larry, Curly, & Moe ... Larry with his Glock 18C and Observation 5 kicks ass. I could send a map too, if you insist, but I'd rather people try out drafting a new map. That's part of the rules I want to exercise a lot, see what people come up with after reading my instructions.

Dwight and I were playing around with this last night, it's a pretty solid little subsystem for BW.

I'd mention though that you pretty much need to have a fairly solid grasp of the BW rules to get much accomplished with Streetfight!

Just keep moving along then, Mr. Jong.

Yes the Hub part, which is why I suggest this for people that have some exposure. But I don't think you'd require any Fight! experience (just use the one table Streetfight! references). Fortunately the Hub (first section in the book) is pretty easy to grasp. Especially if you don't bother with worrying about advancement during doing a scrimmage. I was mentally noting advancement for all the characters last night but I'm pretty sure you weren't?

BW takes a very novel approach to roleplaying. I'm no BW missionary, (I'll leave that to dwight) but it is a remarkably entertaining game and it does have a unique approach, particularly when it comes to table dynamics that allows a game to be played from a different (more 'group think') perspective. Is it a "fix" I dunno. Maybe for some groups, but it is different enough that it's probably worth a try.

For the record, the Streetfight rules did encourage me at least to look at combat from a much more tactical perspective as opposed to "Find cover, hunker down and shoot till the bad guys stop moving."

I have no problem with people playing whatever fancies them. I'd even encourage people to adapt a setting they like to their system of choice (I just know that anything written by Tom Clancy is meant to be played with SR rules). "Having fun" is Número Uno in my list.

What I highlighted is something else, and crosses a certain line.

Come on Jong. Your highlight ignores context. I was clear about "If you appreciate how", as in if you like how it has chosen to addresses some issues that often crop up at RPG tables. Seriously. If you don't like the basic premise of how the mechanics of BW operate, in stated intent leading to the mechanic task rather than the other way around (and some other things the system does to improve player-player communications, encourages the player putting their own PC in danger's way, etc.), then just move on. *shrug*

I love SR and BW and by chance, we're having a campaign/world burning session tonight to start a new long term BW game!

Now I don't own this book, but I'm guessing there must be some rules on guns in Burning Sands: Jihad. Maybe that would be a good place to look for help constructing your rule set?

They do share a certain something. You can really see the influence in magic. Do you have the Magic Burner? Spirit Binding is a great take looking back to pre-SR4 shaman spirits, something that I really miss from SR4. Anyway, enough SR & BW fanboi fawning.

Burning Empires is just Jihad all grown up, fully implemented as a separate game. There is another BW setting book called "Under A Serpent Sun". It's older and it gives a few stats for a handgun and an AK. It even hints at stats for using these in Fight!, but they don't actually work. They barely work for R&C. Well the later is my opinion, the former has been Luke's explicitly too.

I've played Burning Empires. While I love the game, and think Firefight! is perfect for what BE is doing, the problem with Firefight! is that it lacks the mortal danger to the individual [PC] that Fight! has. It also, because of the nature of the game, isn't as "personal". Further, although it has maps with physical locations (rather than the abstract positioning in Fight! and R&C) you can't really attach goals to the locations! Intent is all tied up in the running down of each side's Disposition.** I actually ran into that the very first time I ran a Firefight!, it was really kinda awkward because we were all thinking about the goal in terms of physical location on the map and Firefight! resists that wholly.

Also Firefight! doesn't really mix melee in. Melee is very much abstracted down to a single roll in I Corner Him And Stab Him In The Face (yes, that's the actual rule's name) that's sort of separate from Firefight! Streetfight! mixes it all in, back and forth between ranged and melee, like you see in Shadowrun combat.

No, to make this work it required a total rethink of weapon stats and combat. Fight! is simply built for a very different world than the modern one. Range & Cover is more doable and I even expect to use R&C reworked very lightly for vehicle on vehicle combat. But R&C doesn't allow for melee in anyway nor does it allow for discrete positions as goals, the later of which is actually something that is important to a lot of Shadowrun/modern world game scenarios.

BTW I discarded the PTGS Wheel. You now go direct to damage of Superficial, Light, Midi, Sevre, Tramatic, Mortal and step up and down that scale, more than a little like pre-SR4 Shadowrun did. I also "fixed" armor so things move faster (no rolling Armor, or anything else after you are hit), heavy armor doesn't create so much whiff, but it still degrades (quite quickly actually).


** For those following along that don't know Burning Empires or Burning Wheel, "Disposition" is sort of like "hit points", very abstract rather than actual injuries. Burning Wheel uses Disposition but not in physical combat. BW for combat instead takes the concept of discrete injuries, and performance penalties because of them, even further than Shadowrun does. You win when the other guy falls/gives up. Often you/they will be incapacitated without dying but death is a very possible side effect of losing. I've kept this, for that rush from being in immanent mortal danger, but mixed in a little bit of Intent that you see in other "Burning" game sub-systems.

Tried the rules out last night with a different group of players, 3 players instead of 2 this time. It went even a little bit better than with Imperialus, the rules are definitely overall functioning as expected. Quite team orientated. Thinking in "proper" CQC tactics gives you a sizable edge.

P.S. Dave, something that we didn't get to try out the map we used is busting and moving through walls, going to tweak that area a smidgen after results I saw last night.

I do have the Magic Burner and it's pretty awesome. We'll be using Death Art and Corruption in our new BW campaign! It'll actually be my first full regular BW campaign, having played some Blossoms Are Falling and Mouseguard previously.