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Byron
Well I'm currently in a 4th edition shadowrun campaign. I am playing a hacker with rigging capabilities to give him something to do in combat and because drones are just really awesome. I have a lot if questions though. Yes, I checked the rigging for dummies thread but I'm still unsure
1. What are the different control modes? Can I just send an order to drones or do I have to jump into them to do it? Can I send an order to multiple drones, I looked it up and don't really understand it.
2. For autosofts, they replace skills if I'm not mistaken and cannot be any higher than the pilot rating? Also if I have a copy of them on my comlink, can I just load them onto any of my drones or do I have to buy them for each drone? Also I heard about pirating how do I do that?
3. Do I NEED Arsnel and/or Unwired?
4. Now, what parts fo drones/comlinks can you pirate and are software and which are hardware that you would buy
5. Currently I have 1 Rotodrone (one was recently melted by a vampire mage) and 2 Dobermans, as well as a number of micro and minidrones. Each one of my medium drones is equipped with an LMG with normal ammo currently. I assaigned them pilot 3 (cause 4 is 10,000 nuyen each), system 4, response 4, firewall 4, signal 4, programs Clearsight and
6. I am mainly a hacker but have drones so I can stay out of harms way during combat.
7. Can drones be repaired? If so what is the procedure for doing so, and does it cost anything because one of my drones is damaged right now.
8. I'm looking at replacing one of my drones, without autosofts just to bring it's stats up, give ti a gun, and it's cost, a new rotodrone looks like it would set me by over 10,000 nuyen, am I doing something wrong?
9. My skills are Cybercombat 4, Dodge 2, Electronic Skill Group 3, Electronic warfare 5, Ettiquitte 1 with a matrix specialization
Forgery 2
Hacking 5
Percetion 3
Pistol 2
(1 Point each) Pilot Air, Ground, and Antrho with a specialization in remote piloting
Mechanics Aero 1 with a specialty in drones
And mechanics (auto) 1
10. I'm sorry if any of these seem like they are dumb questions, I am fairly new to shadowrun and the book is confusing at times. I hope some of you guys can answer my questions!
DireRadiant
Jumped In = Use VR, You do everything Vehicel Response + Your Skill
Remote COntrol = AR or VR, you do everything, Command Program + Your Skill
Give Orders = Ar/VR/speak to it normally, Drone acts on it's own.use Pilot + Autosoft,

Sr4 FAQ - Rigging section


Byron
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Mar 27 2009, 03:56 PM) *
Jumped In = Use VR, You do everything Vehicel Response + Your Skill
Remote COntrol = AR or VR, you do everything, Command Program + Your Skill
Give Orders = Ar/VR/speak to it normally, Drone acts on it's own.use Pilot + Autosoft,

Sr4 FAQ - Rigging section

Thanks, that helped somewhat but most of my questions are still unanswered, but thanks for the help so far!
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 27 2009, 03:31 PM) *
2. For autosofts, they replace skills if I'm not mistaken and cannot be any higher than the pilot rating? Also if I have a copy of them on my comlink, can I just load them onto any of my drones or do I have to buy them for each drone? Also I heard about pirating how do I do that?


You can load them from your commlink to your drone as needed. See SR4 P.228 Source Code and Piracy (You can always just put on a eyepatch and say "Yarrr!")


QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 27 2009, 03:31 PM) *
3. Do I NEED Arsnel and/or Unwired?


No. There are no core rules, only more gear and options, and some clarifications. You only need the core book,


QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 27 2009, 03:31 PM) *
4. Now, what parts fo drones/comlinks can you pirate and are software and which are hardware that you would buy


You can raise Response, System, Firewall, Pilot. and software these are in the core book. Youc an add specifci sensors, like cameras with lots of options, and radio signal scanners. Unwired and Arsenal have more options, but you can get by without them.

QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 27 2009, 03:31 PM) *
5. Currently I have 1 Rotodrone (one was recently melted by a vampire mage) and 2 Dobermans, as well as a number of micro and minidrones. Each one of my medium drones is equipped with an LMG with normal ammo currently. I assaigned them pilot 3 (cause 4 is 10,000 nuyen each), system 4, response 4, firewall 4, signal 4, programs Clearsight and


QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 27 2009, 03:31 PM) *
7. Can drones be repaired? If so what is the procedure for doing so, and does it cost anything because one of my drones is damaged right now.


Yes. Up to your GM to assign intervals and costs, and you use the associated Build and Repair skills. p. 126 SR4, Build and Repair table. THere's no set cost, but it would make sense parts and repair will cost less then simply buying a new one.


QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 27 2009, 03:31 PM) *
8. I'm looking at replacing one of my drones, without autosofts just to bring it's stats up, give ti a gun, and it's cost, a new rotodrone looks like it would set me by over 10,000 nuyen, am I doing something wrong?


Some of the drones in the book are cheaper to buy as they are equiped with more then you would get if you upgraded a similar drone. Just like real life. But yes, a new drone, and gun, plus mounts,will get up to 10k easily. You can actually get to 40k + for a tricked out rotodrone.

Byron
Mainly what I meant by NEED was like, are there additional tools in there that are indespensible cause I read in another thread it was almost silly to try and even get by without them. Also thanks so far, I really appreciate the help, also how can a drone rigger keep up with the cost of his drones? A street sam or mage don't have nearly this kind of expenditure just to replace stuff they already had, am I missing something? Oh, sorry, thank you so much, you were really helpful, I appreciate it!

In addition, can you not have an autosoft program run at a higher level than the drone's pilot? And can one pirate firewall, system, and pilot programs?

Also I had forgotten to add, my list of skills is there cause I'd like to know if I'm missing anything crucial and would appreciate suggestions for what to buy next.
DireRadiant
What you do is entirely up to you and what you work out with your GM. If you are primarily Hacker with drones you send out to do stuff, then concentrate on getting Response 4, Pilot 4, Signal 4+, Firewall 6 and gunnery clear sight and other autosofts for your drones to act well on their own.

There's no "One True Way" to be a rigger.

As for the costs. Yep, takes nuyen. You can go for cheap drones that are easy to replace, go for tougher drones that are harder to take out, some combination. And look out for chances to Hack a drone to make your own, e.g. steal drones and upgrade them to what you need. All this si gameplay that you need to work out in your game with your team and GM.
Byron
The reason I ask about the drones is I don't see how a rigger can be a sustainable character unless the GM gives him more money than the rest of the group he has higher costs tyhat say, a street sam or mage or even hacker, and the first one has large startup costs but not much after that. What I'm saying is how does a rigger continue to function in a long campaign? Also thank you very much, I appreciate all your advice, it's been really helpful!
Ryu
Drone damage is not that common in campaigns that donĀ“t pay enough for drone replacements. You also need less money for new implants, compared to the samurai, and no money for binding materials at all. The rigger is just the first victim if the pay rate is too low.
Larme
I think you do NEED arsenal. The selection of drones in the core book is just not sufficient to make a really bitchin' rigger. And all the customization rules are in Arsenal, these are very very useful. Unwired, I'm not so sure about. Part of what it does is make the matrix rules a lot more complicated, and not any easier to use. It does add some nice tools though, like botnets and such, and it clarifies a lot of things about how the matrix actually works -- the rules in the core book are nice because they're so simple, but they leave a lot of unanswered questions about what can and can't be done online. TBH, I think that anyone who plays SR without the full compliment of rulebooks is going to have a relatively impoverished experience.
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 28 2009, 09:41 AM) *
The reason I ask about the drones is I don't see how a rigger can be a sustainable character unless the GM gives him more money than the rest of the group he has higher costs tyhat say, a street sam or mage or even hacker, and the first one has large startup costs but not much after that. What I'm saying is how does a rigger continue to function in a long campaign? Also thank you very much, I appreciate all your advice, it's been really helpful!


Well, why is the Johnson hiring a Rigger if one isn't needed? If the Johnson is hiring a rigger, and you need more nuyen, then you should be getting it. Shadowrun is not a game where everyone gets 4 Karma and 4000 nuyen each per run. The type of compensation is entirely dependent on the game and what the GM and players decide is appropriate.

Some teams take the Johsnons pay and use it to pay expenses before dividing it. Some teams split it evenly all the time. Some teams stay completely with a team pool of money. What are you going to do? That's part of what you as players and characters need to figure out. Every character and player has expenses and plans that they need to figure out.
Byron
Thanks all of you! I really appreciate all the help and advice, seriously, thiis was really useful. I think I'm going to get arsenal as I have been planning to for a while anyway, but I wasn't sure, and honestly, I'm not gonna get unwired yet, I'm still semi-new to shadowrun and the online rules are somewhat confusing as it IS so I'm not going to spend money on something that makes it much more so, on the other hand, the arsenal seems to keep things fairly simple but add in a lot of awesome new choices so I'm going to pic it up next time I can, thanks all!
Jimson
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Mar 27 2009, 06:00 PM) *
You can load them from your commlink to your drone as needed. See SR4 P.228 Source Code and Piracy (You can always just put on a eyepatch and say "Yarrr!")


If this is the case, how come the Drone Rigger sample character has the Autosofts listed, but none of them are listed on any individual drones? I see he doesn't have the Software skill either, so he couldn't crack the copyright protection.

I'm making my first rigger and just a little confused by this.
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (Jimson @ Apr 21 2009, 03:58 PM) *
If this is the case, how come the Drone Rigger sample character has the Autosofts listed, but none of them are listed on any individual drones? I see he doesn't have the Software skill either, so he couldn't crack the copyright protection.

I'm making my first rigger and just a little confused by this.


Barring the GM being evil, just having a copy means you can load it on to multiple drones/commlinks. Personnally as a GM, it makes my life easier too as I know he only a single rating not firewall 6 for piece of equipment X, and firewall 2 for for his drone B.
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 27 2009, 06:34 PM) *
Mainly what I meant by NEED was like, are there additional tools in there that are indespensible cause I read in another thread it was almost silly to try and even get by without them. Also thanks so far, I really appreciate the help, also how can a drone rigger keep up with the cost of his drones? A street sam or mage don't have nearly this kind of expenditure just to replace stuff they already had, am I missing something? Oh, sorry, thank you so much, you were really helpful, I appreciate it!

In addition, can you not have an autosoft program run at a higher level than the drone's pilot? And can one pirate firewall, system, and pilot programs?

Also I had forgotten to add, my list of skills is there cause I'd like to know if I'm missing anything crucial and would appreciate suggestions for what to buy next.


A math SPU and other cyber that increases logic are also good buys for a rigger/hacker. Also disposable commlinks...lotsa of disposable commlinks smile.gif
Jimson
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Apr 21 2009, 04:09 PM) *
Barring the GM being evil, just having a copy means you can load it on to multiple drones/commlinks. Personnally as a GM, it makes my life easier too as I know he only a single rating not firewall 6 for piece of equipment X, and firewall 2 for for his drone B.


I like your line of thinking Warloardtheft. And from what I read in other threads, many people think the rigger gets screwed by having to spend so much nuyen on drones and software upgrades. I like enforcing rules, but sometimes making things a little simpler helps a lot. After all, the players fun is much more important than worrying about a few 1,000 nuyen.
Malachi
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 29 2009, 07:29 AM) *
Thanks all of you! I really appreciate all the help and advice, seriously, thiis was really useful. I think I'm going to get arsenal as I have been planning to for a while anyway, but I wasn't sure, and honestly, I'm not gonna get unwired yet, I'm still semi-new to shadowrun and the online rules are somewhat confusing as it IS so I'm not going to spend money on something that makes it much more so, on the other hand, the arsenal seems to keep things fairly simple but add in a lot of awesome new choices so I'm going to pic it up next time I can, thanks all!

Arsenal is a good choice. It adds lots more gun and drone options. My very first SR character was a Rigger and my favourite part of being a rigger was vehicle mods. I loved making different "batmobile" type vehicles: pop-up weapon mounts, oil sprayers, ejection seats, nitrous oxide boosters, and (my all-time favourite) the amphibious operations package. I was sorely disappointed when those vehicle mod rules were missing from the core rulebook because (in my mind) that was the hallmark of the Rigger archetype. Arsenal brings back all of those awesome vehicle modification rules, and in a much simpler format than the previous Rigger systems. I just love making spy cars with all of their gadgets.

My favourite SR memory was from my first SR character. He was a Rigger that had a Ford-Canada Bison, an RV which he lived in. Besides tons of armor and a pop-up mini-gun it also had the aforementioned Amphibious Operations Package. One time we were evacuating after a particularly messy Shadowrun with Lone Star hot on our tail. I knew I wasn't going to lose them with my big, lumbering RV so I promptly shot a whole in the highway barrier and drove the vehicle in Lake Washington. My GM was dumbfounded until I proudly announced that I had an Amphibious Operations Package! The Star broke off pursuit and called for water-based reinforcements. My Bison, which is actually better off-road than on-road, simply made its way to the other side of the lake, then drove up the shore and back onto the road. Good times.
Warlordtheft
I remeber in SR2 taking 3 days to design an Ares LAV from hell (I gave it to my players with the firm understanding that if used, the drek has really really hit the fan). It had upgraded armor, drone racks, and lots of other bells and wistles. ECCM and ECM was expensive in that edition.
Malachi
Darn rights it was expensive. Plus you were a sitting duck if you didn't have the gear and your opponent did. MIJI... I don't miss that at all.
Jimson
Nice one Malachi! I love all the options in Arsenal, but I don't think I would have ever thought of using the amphibious operations package. Great thinking. I love it when my PC's pull a fast one on me.

I'm a little overwhelmed right now with all the options for different drones, plus the vehicle options, plus the software. Having never played a rigger, or ran any as a GM, I feel like a newbie. wobble.gif I don't even know what is a good number of drones to have, or how often they get shot up. Only one way to find out I guess.
Larme
There are two kinds of drones that I like: quiet drones and tough drones.

A quiet drone can be one of those insect spy drones, or it can be a blimp with stealth options that either observes people from a distance, or caps them with a long range weapon like a grenade launcher or sniper rifle from way high up in the clouds where retaliation may be impossible for those on the ground. The point of a quiet drone is that people aren't supposed to know it's there, or be able to reach it, so it typically survives intact despite usually having almost no Body or Armor.

A tough drone is one that has so much armor that most anything the enemy does will be ineffective. A drone you expect to roll into the thick of combat must be armored up well enough that most attacks will bounce off the hardened armor. Otherwise, you'll be spending most of the payout fixing your drone. It is sort of a problem for GMs, because they have to choose between using enemies who can't harm your drone, and thus are not a challenge, or using enemies that can harm it, and thus will probably destroy it utterly. But I find that as long as the GM doesn't have an us vs. them adversarial approach, they don't mind a big ol' drone dominating the opposition, so they don't send guys with rocket launchers to destroy it. Tough drones still have to deal with not being discrete, and thus not useful for some kinds of jobs. That's why I would typically take an armed blimp before I would take a up-armored Steel Lynx. People will raise the hue and cry when a steel lynx breaks down their door, but when bullets rain from the sky they might be dead before they figure out what happened. And the capacity for blimps to hover in the sky indefinitely thanks to solar tech means that they're great for spying as well as killing. But there are still those rare slash-n-burn situations where the best tool for the job is a miniature tank, and a heavily armored drone can easily bulldoze the opposition most of the time without costing you a dime in repair costs.

What should you never use? Never use those halfway drones like the Doberman, ones that are too big to be stealthy, but too small to be immune to small arms fire. Those kinds of drones will end up costing you bigtime. The one exception might be the modified delivery drone in Arsenal, but only when doing discrete, one-off assassinations. It doesn't have the armor for a protracted firefight, but it can roll up to someone, tell them it has a package for them, cap them with a suppresses narrow full burst, and roll away like nothing happened. Always fun wink.gif
ICPiK
Our team rigger runs with the LEBD-1 all tricked out with a vindicator mini gun and it's frickin awesome for about 14,500 yen.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (ICPiK @ Apr 22 2009, 04:44 PM) *
Our team rigger runs with the LEBD-1 all tricked out with a vindicator mini gun and it's frickin awesome for about 14,500 yen.



A LEBD-1 can support a Minigun?... Cool...
Meatbag
Just a note here..

If you're not being paid enough to get yer rig on reliably, It's time to start looting, particularly enemy vehicles and drones. Corps should be deploying security drones of their own, and as a hacker/rigger, you should be able to at least *attempt* spoofing a "log off Spider, slave to my commlink" drone-jacking.

Jimson
I like your style Larme, and I'm glad to hear it from a person who's played a rigger. I think this will help me with the problem of feeling overwhelmed the shear number of options in the BBB, Arsenal, and Unwired.

So how does 2 ground drones (one more stealth orientated, one more combat orientated), and 2 aerial drones (again, one more stealth orientated, one more combat orientated). And then trick the out.

Larme
The only aeriel drone I'd use would be a blimp, or a tiny spy drone. Never use a rotodrone or anything that makes noise and is obvious, because flying drones typically have low enough Body that they are easily destroyed.

The thing about ground combat drones is that you also need a way to transport them, and that's going to be a significant expense. You need at least a GMC Bulldog to cart around your combat drone, and it should have weapons of its own, as well as stealth options like morphing plates, spoof chip, smoke projector, oil slick sprayer, road strip ejector, and/or chameleon paint. A ground combat drone always sticks out like a sore thumb, the only way to make their use practical is to drive up in an inconspicuous van and drop them off, and then when you're feeling the scene, pick them up again and then disguise your van so nobody can track you.

So, if I were going to recommend a "standard" rigger package, I would start with two spy drones: a Kanmushi micro crawler, and a Fly Spy minidrone. Neither really needs modifications, keep them cheap. Then I'd get a Renraku Stormcloud with some kind of long range gun in a concealed fixed turret, probably a sniper rifle, and upgraded sensors of course. You could trick it out with chameleon paint and a spoof chip so it appears to be a news drone or a weather drone, or you could give it signature masking options so sensors fail to spot it. Then, I'd get a Steel Lynx or a Red Samurai heavy drone, slap rating 10 smart armor on there, and add the biggest machinegun I can, upgrade the sensors, and call it good. The rest of my vehicle money would go into a GMC Bulldog that's tricked out for stealth, but still has some weapons added on, and perhaps extra armor too.
Jimson
Thanks a lot Larme. That really helps me out. Although riggers are pretty expensive, them seem like a lot of fun with all the customizing you can do to the drones. I think I will take the Restricted Gear quality once to twice to get some nice toys for my drone too.
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