The rules are rather unclear how Mystic Adepts are handled in terms of Adept powers and Magician spells. How do you determine how much of each they are entitled to?

In the book I think it says that you choose which path to go down but that doesnt make much sense because then whats the point of being a Mystic Adept?

You choose. Say you have a mystic adept with a magic of 5. You could have 1 magic worth of adept powers and 4 magic for spells, or 2 adept / 3 spell, or any combination adding up to five.

You get to choose you much of each (spells /adept powers) you want.
You just have to split your magic attribute accordingly.
So, a mystic adept with magic 5 could have 3 points of adept powers (ie: 3 points of magic going towards adept powers) and be considered magic 2 for spellcasting, for example.
So the point is that you get to have both.

Ah, much becomes clear

However, for both cases, you still treat your maximum magic rating as a if it was not split for Most other purposes... See the BBB pages 186-187...

"For every point of magic invested in physical abilities, teh character gets one power point that she can use to purchase adept powers. Every point of magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character on epoint to use with magic based skills. For all other purposes, including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers, the character's full magic attribute is used. Such a character will not have as many adept powers as most, nor will they be able to cast spells with the same skill as true magicians."

This implies that for every other purpose, including the duration of your astral signature for spells cast, and the force at which your cast spells become overcasting, you use your full rating.

My Two Cents

I know I read it differently here on the forum, but as it is written; it isn't a clear cut answer. The way it was explained on the previous forum disscusion is below, but I can't promise which is official.

For example, Magic 6 (3 Spellcasting / 3 Adept Powers). You would be stun drain at force 3, physical at force 4, capped at force 6.

Sorry to burst your bubble (I was bummed too), but according to the official FAQ, spell force uses only the amount of magic devoted to spellcasting rolls. I know that this interpretation doesn't make any sense according to the wording in the rules, but it was stated explicitly in the FAQ. A Mystic Adept with Magic 5 and 2 Power Points in Adept powers, can cast at Force 3, or Overcast at Force 6.

This is on area of the SR4 FAQ that I flatly disagree with.


Worth noting: I got a chance to skim SR4A this weekend (hurray for techophile friends!) and the description of Mystic Adepts appears to be unchanged (granted, I didn't have by SR4 hard copy to compare).

For a rule that clearly causes confusion - and that appeared in a FAQ - I would have expected that would be a high(er) priority fix. All they had to do is put "calculating drain" in the description, either as parenthetical note in the sentence talking about point put toward magical skills or in the list of things that use the full magic attribute. That would have cleanly solved the confusion.

But they didn't.

-paws

Yeah that was something I noted as well. I wasn't happy to see the same text still in place. Like you, I would have figured they'd have included the FAQ 'clarification' if it was to be official.

Because reading the text as written, it clearly states something OTHER than what the FAQ does.



I originally interpreted it as saying this...

Example: Magic 5, split into 2 Adept / 3 Mage

You get 2 points of Adept powers.

You get 3 points devoted toward Mage abilities (spellcasting, summoning, etc).

Your Drain would be determined by the FULL MAGIC attribute (since the text says that for all other purposes, the full Magic is used). Now when it comes to Spellcasting, you would only use the portion of your Magic devoted toward that, not the full rating. In the above example, it'd be 3 Dice, not 5. But Drain would be based on the Full attribute since Drain isn't just a Spellcasting or Summoning activity (some adept powers cause Drain).

I still believe the FAQ to be incorrect about this and other Magic related items.

Oh no, it's (almost) exactly the friggin' same...





I was reading some of the older (pre SR4) threads here concerning Mystic Adepts, and it seems from what I read that the FAQ interpretation is in line with how MAs operated pre-SR4. Fine, but that doesn't account for how poorly worded the rules are in SR4, nor why they didn't change it in SR4A! Nor is it necessarily a valid point in its own right, as an edition change would have been the perfect time to break with the past rules if the develoepers thought it best to do so (and it certainly seems the writer of that particular passage was under that impression).

Less self serving ads, more actually useful revisions!

Heck, even a quick addition to the example would have helped:



Text in bold is my addition. A simple addition that would probably clear up the issue in most cases. But apparently, too much work for the Anniversary edition...

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why do Adepts use their MAG attribute for drain when casting spells?

They don't, they use Willpower+Tradition Drain Attribute like full magicians.

I believe what he's referring to is determining whether drain is Stun/Physical and the maximum Force spells can be cast at. It's a recurring discussion because of the poor wording of the rules in SR4/SR4A that makes it seem like his example Mystic Adept function thus:

Magic Attribute:5
Magic Points devoted to Adept powers: 2 (equals 2 power points, maximum Adept Power level 5)
Magic Points devoted to "Mana Abilities" (spellcasting/summoining): 3 (equals 3 dice from Magic attribute when making Magic+Skill rolls)
Level of spell before Overcasting/Maximum level of spell: 5/10 (Magic Attributex2)

Unfortunately the errata rules that the last line reads:

Level of spell before Overcasting/Maximum level of spell: 3/6 (Magic Points for "Mana Abilities"x2)

Ok, that's what I thought.




Why would it function that way?

Overcasting is spellcasting. So it uses the MAG attribute points allocated to "Mana Abilities".





That's exactly how it should be in my opinion.

I didn't say that it did, or that it should. In merely pointed out the way many people read it initially due to incredibly poor wording in the rules, which has not been changed in the Anniversarry Edition (hence the reoccurance of this particular Dumpshock meme).

A little late, but I would just like to point out the Official FAQ is a piece of shit, and as far as I am concerned, does not exist.

Does your denial of the existence of that particular 'piece of shit' extend to all instances of 'shit'?

Ah I see.

Thanks for the clarification.


Although personally I didn't find the wording to be poor, and made sense the first time I read it.

I can't imagine why anyone would think that you'd be spellcasting and summoning at MAG 3 but overcasting at your full MAG rating.

Two reasons:

1) You can take (Magic Attribute) levels of Adept powers even though your Points towards Somatic Abilities is (Magic Attribute-Points towards Mana Abilities). But your Mana Abilities are limited in power (Note: power not skill is what we are referring to) to (Magic Attribute-Points towards Somatic Abilities). Some read this and see a disconnect.

2) The phrase "For all other purposes", this is basically the biggest bugaboo in the whole thing and causes the most problems.

Hmm, ok. I guess I just always took it that Adept powers required an effective expenditure of MAG similar to ESS for augmentations, where as MAG for spellcasting, etc. Could be held in reserve or later spent on somatic abilities.




I always took that to mean stuff like how many foci you could bond, etc. (although off the top of my head I can't think of other purposes for MAG)

Did not see the FAQ... Thanks for the Correction...

As was figured out by some, I am one of those who has an issue with shoddy wording that leads to confusion & misunderstanding.

If the FAQ is intended to be RAI / RAW and clarification of the aforementioned, then it *SHOULD* be included in the SR4A reprint. Otherwise, they remain rather inconsequential.