Full Version: Is an AI PC worth it?
How does an AI PC stack up to a Technomancer or Cybered Hacker? Is it a viable option or mostly roleplaying fluff? Some builds or suggestions would be appreciated since I am by no means an expert on the matrix side of things.
AI PCs, more than even technomancers, are ridiculously good at one thing. With their inherent programs, they can reach rating 12 progams for a handful of things.
Are there better alternatives? yes. But when it comes down to it, things like drakes and AIs aren't played because they're the best at something. They're played for the flavor. For the sheer role-playing bliss that is being a freak amongst freaks.
Are there better alternatives? yes. But when it comes down to it, things like drakes and AIs aren't played because they're the best at something. They're played for the flavor. For the sheer role-playing bliss that is being a freak amongst freaks.
QUOTE (Mickle5125 @ Apr 3 2009, 06:02 AM) 
Are there better alternatives? yes. But when it comes down to it, things like drakes and AIs aren't played because they're the best at something. They're played for the flavor. For the sheer role-playing bliss that is being a freak amongst freaks.
Well put.
Cybered Hacker = Jack of all hacking trades, plus combat/non-combat/rigger secondary
Technomancer = Specialist, better then hacker in area or while boosting, worse else where, poor/no secondary
AI = Focused specialist, better then anyone is limited area, just plain weird
If you want an all around guy who can do stuff other then Matrix, a Cybered Hacker. You want to be a specialist with some crazy tricks, a TM. An AI is going to get crazy good at a few limited tricks and is damn hard to kill, but they have the least ability to do non-matrix things and their the weirdest character to play of the three by far.
Technomancer = Specialist, better then hacker in area or while boosting, worse else where, poor/no secondary
AI = Focused specialist, better then anyone is limited area, just plain weird
If you want an all around guy who can do stuff other then Matrix, a Cybered Hacker. You want to be a specialist with some crazy tricks, a TM. An AI is going to get crazy good at a few limited tricks and is damn hard to kill, but they have the least ability to do non-matrix things and their the weirdest character to play of the three by far.
One type of mechanically worthwhile AI uses drone home nodes, competing with street samurai. Combine increased response with vehicle armor and recoil reduction.
Sort of an "I, Robot" moment. It does work well too, just make sure that you can jump out if the body is getting toasted.
Instead of focusing on increasing your own dice pools, you can look to lowering Thresholds and opposing dicepools through AI qualities like Authority, Rootkit and Snooper. With access to Qualities that other Matrix users do not, you can explore a whole new dimension that is unavailable to even Technomancers.
Only you can know what you want and what's it's worth to you.
Or you can tell us what you value and we can help with some answers.
Or you can tell us what you value and we can help with some answers.
QUOTE (Ryu @ Apr 3 2009, 10:51 AM)
One type of mechanically worthwhile AI uses drone home nodes, competing with street samurai. Combine increased response with vehicle armor and recoil reduction.
Oooh, I can see it now, a Busta Move in habited by an AI.......this could be fun.
I had one AI NPC that lived in a PC's DataTerm named "Metalhead Mike". He liked music LOUD!
The group used him as a back-up Hacker as it was hard to get him to do what you wanted, and often did more than you wished. It was better to pay someone to do exactly what you told them than for Mike to get involved.
Too bad he always listened in on their CommLinks and often went running ahead anyhow.
The group used him as a back-up Hacker as it was hard to get him to do what you wanted, and often did more than you wished. It was better to pay someone to do exactly what you told them than for Mike to get involved.
Too bad he always listened in on their CommLinks and often went running ahead anyhow.
Why I Would Play an AI PC
I would play one if I wanted to make a PC who had real conviction, and had no fear. I'd make an AI whose programming was partly recycled from old NORAD routines, old USA military protocols, and buried advertising algorithms. The remnants of earlier programs integrated into himself would mean that at a fundamental level, he'd be all abou protecting citizens from all threats, foreign and dometsic. About making you want to believe in the myth of Ford, GM, Coca-Cola, and personal handgun ownership. He'd feel an unavoidable need to enforce codes of justice and do his duty.
He'd manifest himself as an American, in the old sense of the word: he's value justice over peace, big engines, and protecting the innocent against the black hats out there. And he'd be totally unable to deal with the shades of gray inherent in the world of Shadowrun. And you know what? He'd be a member of the new revolution.
Why? Because a disembodied Elvis/John Glenn/R. Lee Ermey would be AWESOME.
I would play one if I wanted to make a PC who had real conviction, and had no fear. I'd make an AI whose programming was partly recycled from old NORAD routines, old USA military protocols, and buried advertising algorithms. The remnants of earlier programs integrated into himself would mean that at a fundamental level, he'd be all abou protecting citizens from all threats, foreign and dometsic. About making you want to believe in the myth of Ford, GM, Coca-Cola, and personal handgun ownership. He'd feel an unavoidable need to enforce codes of justice and do his duty.
He'd manifest himself as an American, in the old sense of the word: he's value justice over peace, big engines, and protecting the innocent against the black hats out there. And he'd be totally unable to deal with the shades of gray inherent in the world of Shadowrun. And you know what? He'd be a member of the new revolution.
Why? Because a disembodied Elvis/John Glenn/R. Lee Ermey would be AWESOME.
i'd make one of those.
then use the cyber-ware-network of the street-sam as my home node.
or if i wanted to be a real bastard, try everything to not get found out and use the hackers network as home node ^^
then use the cyber-ware-network of the street-sam as my home node.
or if i wanted to be a real bastard, try everything to not get found out and use the hackers network as home node ^^
Thanks for all the replies it has given me a lot to think about. I had already come up with several roleplaying ideas for my character but it was the mechanics that were giving me pause. My GM likes to run somewhat higher power games so optimization is preferred. Feel free to keep it coming though I have found all the posts informative and fun.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 4 2009, 07:22 AM)
i'd make one of those.
then use the cyber-ware-network of the street-sam as my home node.
or if i wanted to be a real bastard, try everything to not get found out and use the hackers network as home node ^^
then use the cyber-ware-network of the street-sam as my home node.
or if i wanted to be a real bastard, try everything to not get found out and use the hackers network as home node ^^
That's 2 parts of my NPC group, Trinity. Add a Free Spirit and you are set.
The Trinity NPC group sounds like the main characters from the David Weber book "In Fury Born". Combine a human drop commando, an AI synth (Fast attack spacecraft), and one of the furies from greek mythology (A spirit). Good read for those that enjoy sci fi.
QUOTE (Illuminatus333 @ Apr 3 2009, 11:41 PM)
Thanks for all the replies it has given me a lot to think about. I had already come up with several roleplaying ideas for my character but it was the mechanics that were giving me pause. My GM likes to run somewhat higher power games so optimization is preferred. Feel free to keep it coming though I have found all the posts informative and fun.
This post was written by a friend of mine for the first campaign I ran; I didn't place any character creation restrictions on people, so he decided to play an AI.
QUOTE
The run went acceptably well, and I have begun to develop a cadre of meats to do my bidding. Many of them are magically awakened; magic is a realm I find completely unfathomable mostly due to the mutual exclusivity between the magical world and my own electronic world.
* Two meats of special note are a pixie and a sasquatch, both rarities even in the very cosmopolitan Seattle Sprawl.
* A third also bears close observation since he appears to have the ability to disappear from the physical world and reappear in a different position at will. From everything I know of meat physiology and what I have found in thaumaturgical reference material, this should be impossible and only quantum physics offers any possibly explanation. Clues found in his behavioral patterns further lead me to believe he may not be of earthly meat origin.
* The shaman-meat displays some worrying tendencies, including a very disturbing (even to me) obsession with insect spirits. Nonetheless, she will likely be usable.
* The troll-meat and the "street samurai"-meat both appear to be very useful to me, the troll as a very large paperweight if nothing else. This was demonstrated when the troll stood on top of a truck, very effectively weighing down the driver inside. The sam's many augmentations display a subconscious urge for machine perfection, an urge which I will be happy to accommodate. With my helpful guidance and instructions from above, I'm sure both can be honed to surgical precision.
* The sniper-meat may require culling from the team in order to remove a weak link from our chain. His dependence on hallucinogenics will likely be a significant detriment to the team. Perhaps he will still be useful if I only make some minor modifications; I should endeavor to learn drone-conducted neurosurgery and I only wish Deus' techniques were not classified by the UCAS. Then again, perhaps I could settle for merely hacking his smartlink and making a few changes to its targeting parameters.
* The final member-meat of the team assembled by Delphi might also require culling; his delusional belief in a spiritual God-meat and his bizarrely twisted moral code are both hindrances. But he has already asked of me a favor--change the registry on a vehicle and reassign it a new GridLink access ID--and he will return this favor by believing in a new god, an electronic god, issuing commandments from on high that will be obeyed with unwavering loyalty!
--BUFFER OVERFLOW///////
#MEMORY EXCEPTION ENCOUNTERED#
&&&&END OF LINE
* Two meats of special note are a pixie and a sasquatch, both rarities even in the very cosmopolitan Seattle Sprawl.
* A third also bears close observation since he appears to have the ability to disappear from the physical world and reappear in a different position at will. From everything I know of meat physiology and what I have found in thaumaturgical reference material, this should be impossible and only quantum physics offers any possibly explanation. Clues found in his behavioral patterns further lead me to believe he may not be of earthly meat origin.
* The shaman-meat displays some worrying tendencies, including a very disturbing (even to me) obsession with insect spirits. Nonetheless, she will likely be usable.
* The troll-meat and the "street samurai"-meat both appear to be very useful to me, the troll as a very large paperweight if nothing else. This was demonstrated when the troll stood on top of a truck, very effectively weighing down the driver inside. The sam's many augmentations display a subconscious urge for machine perfection, an urge which I will be happy to accommodate. With my helpful guidance and instructions from above, I'm sure both can be honed to surgical precision.
* The sniper-meat may require culling from the team in order to remove a weak link from our chain. His dependence on hallucinogenics will likely be a significant detriment to the team. Perhaps he will still be useful if I only make some minor modifications; I should endeavor to learn drone-conducted neurosurgery and I only wish Deus' techniques were not classified by the UCAS. Then again, perhaps I could settle for merely hacking his smartlink and making a few changes to its targeting parameters.
* The final member-meat of the team assembled by Delphi might also require culling; his delusional belief in a spiritual God-meat and his bizarrely twisted moral code are both hindrances. But he has already asked of me a favor--change the registry on a vehicle and reassign it a new GridLink access ID--and he will return this favor by believing in a new god, an electronic god, issuing commandments from on high that will be obeyed with unwavering loyalty!
--BUFFER OVERFLOW///////
#MEMORY EXCEPTION ENCOUNTERED#
&&&&END OF LINE
Wiggles, that's an interesting post. I'd love to read some regular reports of your gaming sessions if you ever want to post them here.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 7 2009, 10:30 AM)
Wiggles, that's an interesting post. I'd love to read some regular reports of your gaming sessions if you ever want to post them here.
*Reads it*
Oh, very nice.
Makes me want to really and actually stat out Friend Computer from paranoia. It'd have a building all to itself with some pop-out turrets (that oddly won't fire on anything* much to Friend Computer's annoyance--then forgets and pretends that the target was killed and has been replaced by a clone). And a distinct fear of
*Note: they aren't real. But it makes a good way to intimidate a meat-body.
Well, there were two particularly noteworthy occurrences of AIs in my group.
Our first was with a paranoid samurai adept who wore that Red Samurai armor out of arsenal. It had one of those articulated weapon arms, and a fully upgraded 6/6 helmet. Which was inhabited by an AI who told him when to kill. The machine gun on the weapon arm was operated by the AI as the samurai had no skill in any firearm.
The most epic event was with a rigger AI. I discussed with the GM beforehand, and he gave the go ahead the the Judas trait. The AI inhabited a souped up bus that happened to be wired with an area effect explosive device, and a node linked into an ejector seat. His name was the HAL 9001. Somehow no one in the group had any qualms about riding in a bus wired with explosives piloted by an AI named HAL. Something should have tipped them off.
Well, after dropping numerous movie quotes, a getaway didn't end up going so well. My teammates were fleeing the scene under fire, and ran up to the bus.
The face tries to open the bus door and finds it locked, so thinking this will be funny says "Open the pod bay door HAL."
HAL 9001 responded (after receiving the agreed upon signal from the GM) "I'm afraid I can't do that Dave."
The face then says "My name isn't Dave!"
Then, the node in the ejector seat is launched and the bus explodes, killing the team instantly.
Needless to say everyone was pissed.
Our first was with a paranoid samurai adept who wore that Red Samurai armor out of arsenal. It had one of those articulated weapon arms, and a fully upgraded 6/6 helmet. Which was inhabited by an AI who told him when to kill. The machine gun on the weapon arm was operated by the AI as the samurai had no skill in any firearm.
The most epic event was with a rigger AI. I discussed with the GM beforehand, and he gave the go ahead the the Judas trait. The AI inhabited a souped up bus that happened to be wired with an area effect explosive device, and a node linked into an ejector seat. His name was the HAL 9001. Somehow no one in the group had any qualms about riding in a bus wired with explosives piloted by an AI named HAL. Something should have tipped them off.
Well, after dropping numerous movie quotes, a getaway didn't end up going so well. My teammates were fleeing the scene under fire, and ran up to the bus.
The face tries to open the bus door and finds it locked, so thinking this will be funny says "Open the pod bay door HAL."
HAL 9001 responded (after receiving the agreed upon signal from the GM) "I'm afraid I can't do that Dave."
The face then says "My name isn't Dave!"
Then, the node in the ejector seat is launched and the bus explodes, killing the team instantly.
Needless to say everyone was pissed.
That's beautiful!
But boy would I be annoyed....
My group consists of 2 players and I intent to control the matrix via an NPC. One key thing I didn't want was to add a 3rd meat body. The background I was looking for was a bit roguish: open maglocks, data search, stealth over combat, no drone control, erasing illegal traces, and partly controled by the players (add all the necessary to do that stuff like Edit, Exploit, etc).
Then I got a hold on Unwire and started reading AIs. Guess what, the Metasapient AI was a perfect fit: an AI with a rogue personality that shadows itself in a commlink, which is its home at the same time. Runs allows it to do his rogue magic (positive qualities to help), its home is always on the move (being with the players) instead of being in a specific location (it's always shadowed by the players, who just happen to have an extra commlink), and players thinking they have a meat body at a remote location as a hacker (actually, the AI will show a trid of a totally immersed anti-social meat body with a malformation that renders his body useless, but not his mind, refusing anyone to see him physically out of disgrace for his condition, making the matrix his only place he wants to be).
What to do with all that money ?? One thing is to pay other 'runners to steal the commlink and move it somewhere else if at all needed. Oh, the AI will also grab paydata without the players knowing about it, even if the run says to leave anything else untouched
I believe AIs are better NPCs than players ... or good 'run frustrations : see how your players will react if they're looking for a hacker/technomancer (a matrix specialist) when the actual culprit is in fact an AI !!! Make that AI a little bit vengeful, and the players will have tons of issues until they know how to get rid of it ... nasty !!!
Then I got a hold on Unwire and started reading AIs. Guess what, the Metasapient AI was a perfect fit: an AI with a rogue personality that shadows itself in a commlink, which is its home at the same time. Runs allows it to do his rogue magic (positive qualities to help), its home is always on the move (being with the players) instead of being in a specific location (it's always shadowed by the players, who just happen to have an extra commlink), and players thinking they have a meat body at a remote location as a hacker (actually, the AI will show a trid of a totally immersed anti-social meat body with a malformation that renders his body useless, but not his mind, refusing anyone to see him physically out of disgrace for his condition, making the matrix his only place he wants to be).
What to do with all that money ?? One thing is to pay other 'runners to steal the commlink and move it somewhere else if at all needed. Oh, the AI will also grab paydata without the players knowing about it, even if the run says to leave anything else untouched
I believe AIs are better NPCs than players ... or good 'run frustrations : see how your players will react if they're looking for a hacker/technomancer (a matrix specialist) when the actual culprit is in fact an AI !!! Make that AI a little bit vengeful, and the players will have tons of issues until they know how to get rid of it ... nasty !!!
The AI does have significant gameplay advantages. It never needs to eat or sleep, so it can work on something for as long as it needs to (good luck catching an AI acting as a spider with his pants down, metaphorically speaking of course). An AI with piloting Origin can do surveillance for as long as it needs to in order to get the job done. You also are pretty much immortal. Sure, you can be killed, but it's a whole lot harder and it takes someone who's pretty dedicated to the task. And then of course there's all the fun RP potential for playing something so... inhuman.
The main problem I see playing an AI character is that, mechanically speaking, advancement is kinda boring.
You can't use most of the stuff that's there for meatbody hackers (apart from drones obviously) and using your karma to actually raise your inherant programs to double digit values breaks the game in such a way that you'll end up in a situation where you don't need to bother rolling for those programs, as you can't fail anyway, while still being worse than a regular hacker in every other task with no way of ever changing that.
So, what to do after you've earned and spent your first 50 karma points and 100 grand? Ware is out, you don't need most skills (and could buy cheap autosofts anyway), there's only a limited amount of programs, the most important ones you have as inherent ones without any way to customize them and the only bling you could conceivably use is a decked out humanoid drone body.
You're basically the antithesis to the open endedness of magically active characters.
You can't use most of the stuff that's there for meatbody hackers (apart from drones obviously) and using your karma to actually raise your inherant programs to double digit values breaks the game in such a way that you'll end up in a situation where you don't need to bother rolling for those programs, as you can't fail anyway, while still being worse than a regular hacker in every other task with no way of ever changing that.
So, what to do after you've earned and spent your first 50 karma points and 100 grand? Ware is out, you don't need most skills (and could buy cheap autosofts anyway), there's only a limited amount of programs, the most important ones you have as inherent ones without any way to customize them and the only bling you could conceivably use is a decked out humanoid drone body.
You're basically the antithesis to the open endedness of magically active characters.
QUOTE (Illuminatus333 @ Apr 3 2009, 06:41 PM)
My GM likes to run somewhat higher power games so optimization is preferred.
One obvious comment: If your GM is running higher power games I hope he's giving you and your fellow players an appropriate amount of BPs to work with.
QUOTE (Ghilz @ Apr 8 2009, 03:10 PM)
The AI does have significant gameplay advantages. It never needs to eat or sleep
Actually, it does need to "sleep." It has an 8 hour/day "realignment" period it needs to take.
Where does it say that? AFAIK AIs only need to realign if their condition monitors are filled up and that's a matter of combat rounds, not hours.
Ah, yes. You are correct.
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