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Wonazer
I was thinking about basing it off of the Street Index, but I got my math all fouled up. So, I decided to come to you all. How do you handle selling an item in your games?
Luke Hardison
Canon rules for selling loot are in SR3, p. 237-238. I've never bothered with anything else.

In short answer to your question, the base price is 30% of the listed price, altered by 5% of the base price (either way) by the Negotiations (Opponent's Willpower) tests made by each side, to a max of 50% and a min of 10%.
BitBasher
And you do not count street index.
Homme-qui-rigole
QUOTE (Luke Hardison)
In short answer to your question, the base price is 30% of the listed price, altered by 5% of the base price (either way) by the Negotiations (Opponent's Willpower) tests made by each side, to a max of 50% and a min of 10%.

Personally, I multiply the negotiated price by the street Index
Fortune
QUOTE (Homme-qui-rigole)
Personally, I multiply the negotiated price by the street Index

I would only do that if the Street Index is below 1. biggrin.gif
Wonazer
Doh! I feel stupid now.

Fortune, why would you not adjust if the Index is high?

After reading the rules in the SR3, I saw a potential solution. You are supposed to take 30% off the base price, right? Ok, change that to read 30% off the (adjusted for Index) base price. That would work, wouldn't it?
RedmondLarry
When selling equipment, I use a high Street Index value if the buyer can only get that item on the street. If the buyer has other sources where he doesn't have to pay Street Index, he won't be willing to bump up the price to buy it from a shadowrunner. Just my house rule.
Fortune
QUOTE (Nindaru)
Fortune, why would you not adjust if the Index is high?

Why should I give more money to the PCs than the item is worth? The fence is willing to pay 30% (or so) of the actual value of the piece of gear. It's immaterial what he can sell it for, unless that value is lower than normal (>1 SI), so shouldn't have a bearing on his dealings with the characters.
Homme-qui-rigole
Street Index is not just an adjusted price for PC... It reflecting the demand, rarety, etc. of a item in the street... So, if the fence is a street guy, there is enough chance that he will sell it to another street guy... who will rake for the street price because he don't care about Ares selling price... The fence made a good benefit so he can pay the runners a higher price...

I think that the 70% part for the buyer reflect the expense for finding another buyer, a little corruption, a little protection, contribution for risk and a "little" profit who can reach between 25% or more if the seller his a naive troll... If you give away with the Street Index you just made the profit margin of fencer incredibly high since all expense is include in the 30% base price. Everything beyond SI 1.0 is pure profit for the fence because he will sell the good at street index price...

Imagine a runner that want to buy a ak-98, 2500 , SI 4, 10k on the street... He buy it (eh!) and very happy about it... Next month, he upgrade to a better one, and his fixer agree to pay 30% for his old Ak... The runner know that he pay 10k for the fragging rifle, it's made sense to him to receive only 3000. But if the fixer offer him 750, what do you think the guy will said to the fixer and his 1300% profit? I think that the runner will try to sell his gun on the street himself...
toturi
Exactly! So if the PCs manage to cut out the fence and sell directly to the end-user than they can have a greater profit margin. Remember all those arguments about how things good for the goose is good for the gander? Why is it any different now? If the PCs must buy at SI, then why can't they sell at SI too?
mfb
any item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. that's what price is; i don't see why street index should magically disappear when the runners become the vendors.
Fortune
All that is fine if the PC wants to hold onto the item until he finds a buyer willing to pay what he wants, like Joe the SINless guttersnipe. If, on the other hand, he wants to sell quickly through a fence, who has expenses over and above the purchase price itself, such as Contact Upkeep, Storage Fees, Bribes, Protection, etc, then he should not expect SI to be included.
mfb
that's silly, though, unless that same contact is going to return the favor. i don't see why the runners are somehow this special market that has to pay SI, but never gets it when they sell.
D.Generate
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Nindaru @ Jan 14 2004, 11:54 AM)
Fortune, why would you not adjust if the Index is high?

Why should I give more money to the PCs than the item is worth? The fence is willing to pay 30% (or so) of the actual value of the piece of gear. It's immaterial what he can sell it for, unless that value is lower than normal (>1 SI), so shouldn't have a bearing on his dealings with the characters.

Fortune so do your players get to buy the items at the same prices of which they could sell them? Or do they have to buy them at cost plus street index? If so that is unfair to the players.

If that was the case I wouldn't even waste time selling things in your game I'd just throw everything out .
toturi
QUOTE (Fortune)
All that is fine if the PC wants to hold onto the item until he finds a buyer willing to pay what he wants, like Joe the SINless guttersnipe. If, on the other hand, he wants to sell quickly through a fence, who has expenses over and above the purchase price itself, such as Contact Upkeep, Storage Fees, Bribes, Protection, etc, then he should not expect SI to be included.

OK, then let me introduce you to Mr Connected(5). Buys with SI, sells without. Haveaniceday. love.gif
mfb
ah, you mean buys without, sells with. unless the street index is less than 1.
toturi
No, buys with and sells without if SI more than 1.

Buys at best price to the PC and sells at best price to PC.
Fortune
QUOTE (D.Generate @ Jan 16 2004, 02:58 PM)
Fortune so do your players get to buy the items at the same prices of which they could sell them?  Or do they have to buy them at cost plus street index?  If so that is unfair to the players. 

If that was the case  I wouldn't even waste time selling things in your game I'd just throw everything out .

As I said, they are free to try to find an end-user-type buyer for themselves, in which case SI does indeed come into play. This is not necessarily an automatic process, nor does it happen immediately. If, on the other hand, they choose to broker the sale out to a professional, who will pay them right away to get rid of the item, then why should he cut into his profits?

The specific Street Index for each item is not written down (in-game) in every Fixer's little black book. It is a variable to reflect the supply and demand of certain items, as well as the difficulty in which people can acquire them by less-than-legal means.
mfb
yes, exactly--the SI is a mechanic for determining the street value of a given item. if you're a professional on the street, you pay SI. the professional gets his money by buying stuff for around 30% its value, and then selling it at full value, not by telling runners that he could get a better deal if he had a permit. if he had a permit, he wouldn't need to buy it off the street!

and a person with connected (5) would buy his gear with no street index, if the SI was 1+, because that's the best price. if this thingamajig costs 5 nu, and has a street index of 1.5, then you'd normally pay 7.5 nu for it; someone with the connected edge would buy it at 5. ergo, buy without and sell with.
toturi
His fixer/fence with whom he has a connection to would buy with and sell without. Simple enough for you?
mfb
right. we're talking about the same thing.
hobgoblin
so what you are saying is that a fixer would buy stuff at 30% of normal selling price and sell it at normal selling price times street index?

or would it be 30% of price times SI to buy and normal times SI to sell?

all this from a fixers pov yes?
mfb
the second one. a fixer on the street buys at (price * SI * .3), and sells at (price * SI). he can buy and sell like this because everyone knows they can go to him for the gear they need, when they need it--the 'extra' 70% is paying for the privilege of accessing his contact web (as well as the risk of dealing in illegal goods).
RedmondLarry
Yes, mfb, I agree with you in almost all cases. The fixer has roughly a 200% markup (gross profit) when he does it the way you describe.

The only time I don't run it this way is when the Fixer has a channel to a legal wholesale source or legal retail source where he can get the goods at an even better price. In that case he won't buy it on the street, but he will sell it there. I think most fixers would have connections for buying a few types of items this way.
mfb
oh, sure. if you're not buying on the street, there's no SI.
Fortune
QUOTE (mfb)
the second one. a fixer on the street buys at (price * SI * .3), and sells at (price * SI). he can buy and sell like this because everyone knows they can go to him for the gear they need, when they need it--the 'extra' 70% is paying for the privilege of accessing his contact web (as well as the risk of dealing in illegal goods).

So, in your opinion, the Fixer sells the used gear that he just bought for full (as in brand new) price plus Street Index? Interesting.
LoseAsDirected
Christ.. Do you people really have that big of an issue with PCs trying to sell their gear? Most of my PCs have permanent low lifestyles just so they have a place to store all their outdated equipment.. Bunch of fuckin' pack rats...
Zazen
I'm the same way, 30% of base price. You don't get to charge your fence street index for the priviledge of letting you offload hot, used, bloody gear.
toturi
I charge my fence for the priviledge of getting his hands on gear he couldn't get from other sources. It is hot, so it can't come from other sources.
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