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DocMorbius
The Challenge: So my Cyber'd up elf got shot in the face with a rocket launcher, time for a new character... Now we have a good selection of players and characters in our group but only one mage so i thought I would make another to complement our overworked colleague. But I'm thinking of making it different, making it interesting, making it a free spirit smile.gif (shaman)

The Problem: I have been looking at creating my free spirit (using rules in Runners Companion) but after the Whopping great 250 BP to become a free spirit it does not leave much to work with, I find that after putting a decent amount into Force and edge I have almost nothing left to get skills and bring other attributes above 2! And as a spirit cant use foci I need high attributes (luckily force = Magic so there is one saving made.)

The bonus: What I do have to work with however is an extra 58 Karma to sprinkle on top (a leftover of my poor exploded elf), now at the start this sounded like a lot but when buying skills it doesn't get much into the high places I need it.

The Plee: I need help, any you can give me would be great, from tips to vague ideas to outright character builds, anything is wanted and appreciated! thanks guys and galls, I really need a clue here smile.gif
Malicant
Unfortunalty the Free Spirit rules are fucked up so much, that you can pretty much forget playing anything above Force 2, maybe 3. But on the upside, you don't get Karma! Isn't that great?

With this rules you play Free Spirits so weak, they should never have become free, so only chose this option, if you want to be a Free Spirit, that can accomplish nothing at all besides being a Free Spirit.

Unbalanced is prefereble to unplayable in SR, but that's just me.
raggedhalo
You can get Karma, just make sure you take the Friendship Pact ability. Problem solved.
Malicant
Yeah. Friendship pact. Ever read how that blasted thing works? It's a joke.
raggedhalo
Yes, several times, because there was a free spirit PC at my table. Crucially, it allows the spirit to earn Karma, which undermines one of your points.
The Mack
@ the OP

If you're looking to have fun, and RP a Free Spirit, then make a Free Spirit.

If you want to play a dedicated magician, play one of the standard metahuman races.
darthmord
Look up a recent thread on Free Spirits. I posted in it several times and we determined how we could make the SR version of Pun-Pun with a Free Spirit. You could potentially rake in several thousand Karma every year just by taking advantage of the Pacts.
DireRadiant
A Free Spirit is fun!

I'd suggest concentrating a bit more on the inherent abilities of a spirit. Materialization/Possession, the ability to teleport anywhere you've ever been before in a couple turns (anywhere on the planet!), and the built in Powers. Powers that you can use over and over and over and over again for years and years with no drain whatsoever.... Influence.. Psychokinesis etc for no drain, all the time, forever. Oh, and a Materialized spirit can fly! (Some debate here...) Get to at least Force 4, any skills are a bonus after getting your inherent Powers.

"Where've you been?"
"Oh I stopped over in Fiji to visit an old contact to order that software you wanted."
"Fiji! We've been stuck behind this door for 20 seconds!"
"Oh yeah, it's daytime there, nice and sunny. Let me go open it from the other side."
Maelstrome
you could always try karmagen. le gasp. rotfl.gif

i could show you what i made with karmagen. i have a decent free spirit.
CanRay
First off, read my story "On The Hunt" for how you can get, and stop, a Free Spirit from doing anything he/she/it wants. (Link is in my Sig.).

As for why playing a Free Spirit? Well, why do Spirits do anything they do after they get free?

And the weakness issue, well, said Spirit might have been the favourite Watcher Spirit of the group's old Mage, who didn't disapate when he died, and the group already knows "Bouncy". A few Karma later, and "Bouncy" becomes "Bouncer"!

Especially if the group is ever able to retire and open that Club like they want to.
Malicant
QUOTE (raggedhalo @ Apr 6 2009, 01:03 PM) *
Yes, several times, because there was a free spirit PC at my table. Crucially, it allows the spirit to earn Karma, which undermines one of your points.
Actually it allows you to lose Force points without being able to prevent it. Which makes it a joke.
raggedhalo
In the extremely unlikely situation that neither the dying PC's player nor the free spirit's player are willing to burn a point of Edge to keep the PC alive and thus maintain the free spirit's force.
Malicant
So, you have a large group and everyone is happy to go into a pact with you, that only benefits you, not them. Right. That makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
CanRay
QUOTE (Malicant @ Apr 7 2009, 09:14 AM) *
So, you have a large group and everyone is happy to go into a pact with you, that only benefits you, not them. Right. That makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

"Oh, come on, it'd be like having a high-powered pet! We'll make it do tricks, take it for walkies, have it possess that Ex you hate and make her do things that we can record and blackmail her with... It'll be great!"
Neraph
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 6 2009, 06:36 AM) *
Look up a recent thread on Free Spirits. I posted in it several times and we determined how we could make the SR version of Pun-Pun with a Free Spirit. You could potentially rake in several thousand Karma every year just by taking advantage of the Pacts.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=25710

grinbig.gif
Namelessjoe
i played a wheelman free sprit once it was fun i had a few spells and modest ill admet tho i was laking in the skill selection but it was fun... i would say if you want to play a free spirit then play one but you wont be an uber mage then agian i dont think thats what you wanted your supporting th party's mage right? as for stats just go for making your self unbalanced or way specialised like force 4(you start at 2 anyway and all your stats at that) then your drain and will power stats at 4 so thats only 60 bp for those 3 stats then sprinkle anouther 100 for your other 6 stats and youll be around human "typical" then on to skills (thats 410 so maybe alittle lower on phiscial stats 2s for str and bod is fine) take some big neg traits like alergy according to the tradition that created you (like holy water or wisconsin cheese) and ignorance for weapons like guns and or matrix use alittle cheesy but it gets you points then buy a few spells and buy skills with your karma
Ryu
If you are just looking into being a secondary spellcaster, I´m afraid you´ll want to play something different. Free spirits are a distinct option.

Follow up on Dire Radiants advice, and concentrate on what is special about a Free Spirit. You could play the free spirit sidekick to your groups magician:

"Mushu" (form: small eastern dragon)
250 Free Spirit
060 Edge 5 Force 5 (Concealment, Movement, Realistic Form, Fear)
024 Spellcasting 3(spec), Counterspelling 1 (combat spells +2), Assensing 1
015 5 Spells
050 Intuition 5, Willpower 4
----
399

You can dodge guards and bullets by leaving the material plane, attack targets of opportunity from behind, and are generally able to fly move in all directions. Immunity to normal weapons is high enough to protect you in combat. Your spellcasting abilities will grow fast, while your powers work from the beginning.
raggedhalo
QUOTE (Malicant @ Apr 7 2009, 10:14 AM) *
So, you have a large group and everyone is happy to go into a pact with you, that only benefits you, not them. Right. That makes perfect sense, doesn't it?


Except that it does benefit them, too -- because there's a second layer of Edge waiting to save them if they die unexpectedly.
Aaron
QUOTE (raggedhalo @ Apr 7 2009, 10:11 AM) *
Except that it does benefit them, too -- because there's a second layer of Edge waiting to save them if they die unexpectedly.

Not to mention the free spirit with a vested interest in keeping them alive.
suppenhuhn
QUOTE (Ryu @ Apr 7 2009, 05:47 PM) *
If you are just looking into being a secondary spellcaster, I´m afraid you´ll want to play something different. Free spirits are a distinct option.

Follow up on Dire Radiants advice, and concentrate on what is special about a Free Spirit. You could play the free spirit sidekick to your groups magician:

"Mushu" (form: small eastern dragon)
250 Free Spirit
060 Edge 5 Force 5 (Concealment, Movement, Realistic Form, Fear)
024 Spellcasting 3(spec), Counterspelling 1 (combat spells +2), Assensing 1
015 5 Spells
050 Intuition 5, Willpower 4
----
399

You can dodge guards and bullets by leaving the material plane, attack targets of opportunity from behind, and are generally able to fly move in all directions. Immunity to normal weapons is high enough to protect you in combat. Your spellcasting abilities will grow fast, while your powers work from the beginning.


Erm, with force 5 your edge and int would be at maximum, so the cost would be 30 bp higher if i'm not mistaken.

Possession plant spirit (Hedge Witchcraft Tradition)

250 Spirit
55 Magic 6
30 Edge 5 (Aura Masking, Realistic Form, Noxious Breath)
60 Cha 4, Int 4, Log 3, Wil 3
30 Enchanting(Vessel Prep) 1+2, Influence 1, Automatics 1, Assensing 1, Astral Combat 1, Counterspelling 1, Spellcasting 1
04 One spell xD
-35 cheesy disadvantages

Not a great spellcaster but a really nice infiltrator.
Ryu
Thanks for catching that!

"Mushu" (form: small eastern dragon)
250 Free Spirit
050 Edge 4 Force 5 (Concealment, Movement, Realistic Form, Guard)
044 Spellcasting 3(spec), Counterspelling 5 (combat spells +2), Assensing 1
015 5 Spells
040 Intuition 4, Willpower 4
----
399


Your build is nice - I would suggest to forego Aura Masking and initiate for the masking metamagic ingame. Concealment would be a good replacement, as possession comes with a physical vessel.
Malicant
QUOTE (raggedhalo @ Apr 7 2009, 06:11 PM) *
Except that it does benefit them, too -- because there's a second layer of Edge waiting to save them if they die unexpectedly.
Awesome, a character that is only any good if you die.
It barely works in theory, in actual gameplay it's a sick joke. Free Spirit is only good for roleplaying, nothing else. They contribute nothing beyond flavor. They are stupid, ugly, dumb, weak klutzes with less utility then unbound spirits and DPs barely above Watchers. And don't even start with "unlimited potential". Most campaigns are over before they are even half decent.
Maelstrome
i made a free spirit character with karmagen and it isnt useless at all. if you want an effective free spirit use karmagen. or is it taboo to your group? if any of you want to see it PM me. but i would say its proof enough that free spirits can be useful.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Maelstrome @ Apr 7 2009, 08:40 PM) *
i made a free spirit character with karmagen and it isnt useless at all. if you want an effective free spirit use karmagen. or is it taboo to your group? if any of you want to see it PM me. but i would say its proof enough that free spirits can be useful.


I Too think that this is the way to go if you are wanting to play a free spirit...
Ryu
Multipost.
Ryu
Multipost.
Ryu
"Mushu" costs 678 karma (assuming unchanged karma-gen), or 774 assuming a change to attribute*5 with everything else unchanged. While karmagen is currently better than BP-gen, free spirits gain noticeably less from the power differential than everyone else. (Technically the cost is 500 karma lower due to race being free, but let´s assume that any GMs answer is "NO!" in that case.)

As for the utility, there are character types that can´t offer nearly unlimited Concealment, Movement, Guard and Magical Guard counterspelling to every team member that is in their "bubble", can´t infiltrate via the astral, and don´t have Immunity to Normal Weapons. Another factor is that you can spend your share of the group income however you want - for the benefit of your friends, for example. ("Metahumans are summoned by locating a specimen that demonstrated the needed skills in the past, and transfering a to-be-negotiated amount of "nuyen" in exchange for the service. Warning! These are no binding contracts.")
Malicant
KarmaGen is a completly different critter. With it, you can build "flavor" characters that actually contribute something to the gruop.
Malicant
I think it's the way to do if you want any kind of "flavor" character. But with BP Gen you're pretty much hosed in that department.
DocMorbius
Ok so I have had a bit of time to look into it, what do you think of the following build?

**as noted this is created with 400BP and 58 Karma** -- I converted 3 BP into 6 Karma as they were left over at the end--

Body 3 (9karma)
Agility 2 (free)
Reaction 2 (Free)
Strength 2(Free)
Charisma 5 (30 BP)
Intuition 3 (9 Karma)
Logic 3 (9 Karma)
Willpower 5 (30 BP)
Force 6 (40 BP)
Magic 6 (free due to force)
Edge 5 (30BP)

Assensing 3 (12BP) + Spec in Spells (2Karma)
Spellcasting 4 (16BP)
Counterspelling 6 (24BP) + spec in Combat spells (2Karma)

Initiation lvl 1 metamagic Shielding (13 Karma)
Initiation lvl 2 metamagic absorbtion* (16 Karma)

Spell - Stun Bolt (5 Karma)

18pts in knowledge skills (Free)

5 Power points worth of spirit powers (free from edge)

Negative traits (+35BP, probibly Uneducated, vendetta (blood mages) and enemy, bloodmages)

(* Not sure if I have the name right on this one as I dont have the book on me now but it allows you to absorbe the force of the spell you are counterspelling and use each point of force counterspelled to drop the drain on the next cast spell (i.e masivly overcast stun bolt))



-------------------------------------------------------------------

This character is realisticly doable, he is specificaly attuned to our mages weaknesses (she is a specked up summoner who has crap counterspelling) it has 16 to counterspell combat magic and can aborb the enemys attacks, he has 5 edge with whitch to get some decent spirit based cheese (the free spirits version of engulph is bad ass!) he is immune to small arms fire in most cases and can learn new spells by just assensing the spell as its cast, he has 18 free points in knowledge skills and can kill an enemy by just walking up to them whilst holding a frag grenade (which he is immune to, go hardened armour) with a little Karma he can get some basic back up face skills as well.

- oh and there are 7 other characters in the group smile.gif so force 6 is easy enough -


what do you think of teh build?
Neraph
QUOTE (Namelessjoe @ Apr 7 2009, 09:34 AM) *
i played a wheelman free sprit once it was fun i had a few spells and modest ill admet tho i was laking in the skill selection but it was fun... i would say if you want to play a free spirit then play one but you wont be an uber mage then agian i dont think thats what you wanted your supporting th party's mage right? as for stats just go for making your self unbalanced or way specialised like force 4(you start at 2 anyway and all your stats at that) then your drain and will power stats at 4 so thats only 60 bp for those 3 stats then sprinkle anouther 100 for your other 6 stats and youll be around human "typical" then on to skills (thats 410 so maybe alittle lower on phiscial stats 2s for str and bod is fine) take some big neg traits like alergy according to the tradition that created you (like holy water or wisconsin cheese) and ignorance for weapons like guns and or matrix use alittle cheesy but it gets you points then buy a few spells and buy skills with your karma

The attribute maximum for a free spirit is equal to their force. So a force 4 spirit's racial maximum for stats is 4. So getting two stats at 4 on a force 4 spirit costs 90 BP total... Force 2 to 4 = 20, Attribute 2 to 4 = 35 (10 for one increase, 25 to cap.) and you can only have one such attribute maxed out.

EDIT: I've found to be especially useful for Spirits are these:
Lightning Reflexes
Lucky
Shapechange /OR/ (If GM allows, we can argue this point at-length) (Human/Troll/Ork/Elf/Dwarf) Form
Maelstrome
you know what. ill probably regret this but im going to post mine. if anybody sees any problems with it, tell me so it can be fixed. i made this character with the gm over my shoulder but no telling what could have fallen through the cracks at 3 am.

Schwartzvald
free spirit
radiation toxic

body 4
agility 4
reaction4
strength4
intuition4
logic5
charisma4
willpower5
edge 6

force 6

qualities
negative
signature 10
distinctive style 25
positive
quick healing +2 to heal
focused concentration +2 agaisnt drain.

willpower+logic=drain

skills
agility
exotic weapon polearms4(specialised scythe)
blades4
unarmed combat4
infiltration 4
exoctic ranged weapon elemental attack 4
reaction
dodge 4

intuition
perception 4
assensing 4
shadowing 4
tatooing 4

logic
armorer 4

magic
spellcasting 5
counter spelling 5
astral combat 4
ritual spellcasting 4
arcana 4
enchanting 4

charisma
con4
etiquette4
negotition 4


knowledge
magic theory 4
magitech engineering4
philosophy 4
poetry 3

language
latin 4
sperethiel 4
cityspeak n
japanese 4

spells
stunbolt f/2-1
manabolt f/2
manipulate metal f/2 +2
acid stream f/2 +3
toxic wave f/2 +5
shatter shield f/2 -3
power bolt f/2 +3
powerball f/2 +1
lightning bolt f/2 +3
heal dv-2

spirit powers
influence 2 charisma+force against willpower
guard .5 prevent accidents
elemental attack radiation 3 bypasses armor dv 6
pschokenisis .5 equal to magic+willpower test


contact
street mage 6/6
magic researcher 3/3
talismonger 3/3
Laughlin Free Spirit 6/6


suppenhuhn
QUOTE (Ryu @ Apr 7 2009, 08:58 PM) *
Your build is nice - I would suggest to forego Aura Masking and initiate for the masking metamagic ingame. Concealment would be a good replacement, as possession comes with a physical vessel.

Thanks for the kind words.
The reason i went for aura masking is that it allows the spirit to pass as a mundane when possessing someone (well when he raises his edge that is grinbig.gif ) With the metamagic i'd need to be a lvl 6 initiate to accomplish that which is quite a big karma investment.
Concealment is certainly a great power but actually I want to be seen so when possessing Joe the watchman I look like him in the 'real' world as well as on the astral.
The moment noone sees me in real my aura is suspicious, that's what this is all about.

Oh and honestly I think that this is a character you can play and be useful to a group, but reading some comments here apparently YMMV.
suppenhuhn
QUOTE (Maelstrome @ Apr 8 2009, 06:25 PM) *
if anybody sees any problems with it, tell me so it can be fixed.


Er you take one of the most expensive 'metatypes' and create it with the most retarded (albeit the official) version of karmagen which let's you have it for free and ask where the problem is? grinbig.gif
Are there things your GM actually doesn't allow?
Maelstrome
QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Apr 8 2009, 10:05 PM) *
Er you take one of the most expensive 'metatypes' and create it with the most retarded (albeit the official) version of karmagen which let's you have it for free and ask where the problem is? grinbig.gif
Are there things your GM actually doesn't allow?


my gm actually told me to use karmagen for my free spirit. he is pretty lax about allowing things. its how i was when i was the main gm for the group. i guess he picked it up from me and the others. if its in the books or complies with the rules he allows it. thats how i do it, that how he does it, and thats how my other gm friends do it. and its work out so far.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Malicant @ Apr 8 2009, 04:42 AM) *
KarmaGen is a completly different critter. With it, you can build "flavor" characters that actually contribute something to the gruop.



And that is one of the reasons that I like it, for any number of concepts...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Maelstrome @ Apr 8 2009, 03:18 PM) *
my gm actually told me to use karmagen for my free spirit. he is pretty lax about allowing things. its how i was when i was the main gm for the group. i guess he picked it up from me and the others. if its in the books or complies with the rules he allows it. thats how i do it, that how he does it, and thats how my other gm friends do it. and its work out so far.



And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that in the least... Lighten up Suppenhuhn...
Ryu
QUOTE (DocMorbius @ Apr 8 2009, 05:53 PM) *
Body 3 (9karma)
Agility 2 (free)
Reaction 2 (Free)
Strength 2(Free)
Charisma 5 (30 BP)
Intuition 3 (9 Karma)
Logic 3 (9 Karma)
Willpower 5 (30 BP)
Force 6 (40 BP)
Magic 6 (free due to force)
Edge 5 (30BP)

Assensing 3 (12BP) + Spec in Spells (2Karma)
Spellcasting 4 (16BP)
Counterspelling 6 (24BP) + spec in Combat spells (2Karma)

Initiation lvl 1 metamagic Shielding (13 Karma)
Initiation lvl 2 metamagic absorbtion* (16 Karma)

Spell - Stun Bolt (5 Karma)

18pts in knowledge skills (Free)

5 Power points worth of spirit powers (free from edge)

Negative traits (+35BP, probibly Uneducated, vendetta (blood mages) and enemy, bloodmages)

what do you think of teh build?


Force is 55 BP, as you are buying that last point of it. Going for Force 5 / Edge & Willpower 4 is much cheaper. I would add a few spells (with BP), and avoid dealing with bloodmages on a regular basis. Those are ikky. Some suggestions: Magic Fingers, Levitate, Foreboding.

What do you intent to do with the powers? Engulf is nice. Natural Weapon is great, but requires secondary investments in Agility and Skill.
suppenhuhn
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 9 2009, 01:25 AM) *
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that in the least... Lighten up Suppenhuhn...

So you don't think a whopping 62% Buildpoint freebie might be a bit problematic for team balance?
Why do 'normal' metahumans have to pay 30 karma to be a magician when they just as well could be a spirit and have it for free plus loads of other goodies?
Flavour characters are all fine and good but maybe playing Odin the god of thunder is not appropriate for a normal powered campaign and thus such things have high costs attached to them so they only are worthwhile in high powered games with more points for chargen.
darthmord
QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Apr 9 2009, 09:58 AM) *
So you don't think a whopping 62% Buildpoint freebie might be a bit problematic for team balance?
Why do 'normal' metahumans have to pay 30 karma to be a magician when they just as well could be a spirit and have it for free plus loads of other goodies?
Flavour characters are all fine and good but maybe playing Odin the god of thunder is not appropriate for a normal powered campaign and thus such things have high costs attached to them so they only are worthwhile in high powered games with more points for chargen.


You need to get your rules straight. There are benefits to being a metahuman mage that a free spirit CANNOT have. Not to mention other ways to die as a Free Spirit that as a metahuman, do NOTHING to you.

Also, if you were to build a free spirit under BPs, they have to pay a significant chunk of BP (250 iirc) for their package of benefits. The mage package is much cheaper and by far, more cost effective.

Besides, if one character is using karmagen, then all characters in the group should be using karmagen.

Methinks you are tilting at windmills.
suppenhuhn
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 9 2009, 04:22 PM) *
You need to get your rules straight. There are benefits to being a metahuman mage that a free spirit CANNOT have.

You mean things like summoning powerful spirits for loads of drain as opposed to being a powerful spirit all the time?
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 9 2009, 04:22 PM) *
Not to mention other ways to die as a Free Spirit that as a metahuman, do NOTHING to you.

Which are?
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 9 2009, 04:22 PM) *
Also, if you were to build a free spirit under BPs, they have to pay a significant chunk of BP (250 iirc) for their package of benefits. The mage package is much cheaper and by far, more cost effective.

I was talking about Karmagen.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 9 2009, 04:22 PM) *
Besides, if one character is using karmagen, then all characters in the group should be using karmagen.

Which doesn't give nearly the same benefit to normal builds as it does to munchkin flavour chars.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 9 2009, 04:22 PM) *
Methinks you are tilting at windmills.

Among the blind the one-eyed is king. grinbig.gif
Neraph
QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Apr 9 2009, 09:02 AM) *
Which are?


Destroying a Spirit Formula. People don't have Spirit Formulae.
The Mack
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 10 2009, 12:07 AM) *
Destroying a Spirit Formula. People don't have Spirit Formulae.


You don't need a Spirit Formula to put a bullet through their heads.
suppenhuhn
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 9 2009, 05:07 PM) *
Destroying a Spirit Formula. People don't have Spirit Formulae.

That disrupts a spirit as does about anything that kills a metahuman. whoopdeedoo

In fact the one and only way to kill a spirit is to venture to his home metaplane and destroy it there and even getting the formula you need to begin with is more work then killing a team of runners and the moment someone has my formula i know that and i know exactly where it is.
Mx
QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Apr 9 2009, 04:58 PM) *
So you don't think a whopping 62% Buildpoint freebie might be a bit problematic for team balance?

It's not a competative game, so i don't understand this need for exact team balance.
And it's only that hight freebie, becouse the cost of the free spirits is so retardidly hight in BP-chargen.
suppenhuhn
QUOTE (Mäx @ Apr 9 2009, 06:08 PM) *
It's not a competative game, so i don't understand this need for exact team balance.

It gets problematic when other character start to become redundant or when some are so powerful that challenging adversaries for them are a death warrant for the rest of the team.
QUOTE (Mäx @ Apr 9 2009, 06:08 PM) *
And it's only that hight freebie, becouse the cost of the free spirits is so retardidly hight in BP-chargen.

The BP cost isn't that much off when you consider what a spirit is capable of simply by being a spirit.
With 400 BP you can easily make it a valuable team member.
The Mack
QUOTE (Mäx @ Apr 10 2009, 01:08 AM) *
It's not a competative game, so i don't understand this need for exact team balance.


Let's say you have 6 players.

They each start with 750 Karma.


But you're not concerned with "exact team balance", so you choose one of them and grant them an extra 450 karma.


So then, 5 of them have 750 karma builds and 1 of them has a 1200 karmabuild.

Does that look right to you? Do you think the other players will mind?



That's basically what you're doing when you let someone play a Free Spirit for zero cost in karmagen.

Except instead of karma you've given them what are effectively super powers, including teleportation, as well as a modecum of immortality.
Malicant
QUOTE (Mäx @ Apr 9 2009, 06:08 PM) *
It's not a competative game, so i don't understand this need for exact team balance.
I wish more people would see it that way. This is Shadowrun. Balance is an illusion.
Mx
QUOTE (The Mack @ Apr 9 2009, 07:42 PM) *
Let's say you have 6 players.

They each start with 750 Karma.


But you're not concerned with "exact team balance", so you choose one of them and grant them an extra 450 karma.


So then, 5 of them have 750 karma builds and 1 of them has a 1200 karmabuild.

Does that look right to you? Do you think the other players will mind?

Execp the amount of starting karma has allmost nothing to do fit characters being "balanced" with each other.
the one with extra 450 karma might be the most powerful of the bunch or she might be the weakest.
Unless all of those six players are über min/maxers or non min/maxers there is gonna be big differensies in power when comparing those 750 karma character with each other.
darthmord
I've seen 400 BP character builds here on the forums that are worlds beyond anything I would make with the same 400 BPs. Yet both can quite peacefully co-exist in the same campaign.

I still think you are tilting at windmills.
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