I am getting ready to run a 4th edition campaign years since I first played 1st edition. Although I see the Doc Wagon listed in a couple of character templates, I can't find it listed anywhere else in the Core. Are they gone? Is there somewhere I can find a list of applicable 4th ed rules related to them?

They are in the sr4 bbb in the gear section or near the lifestyles i believe sorry no book handy to give a page number.

Doc Wagon Contracts are under Biotech.

Your players are CRAZY if their shadowrunner characters take a docwagon contract. They are carrying around a hardened extremely powerful homing beacon black box. They don't know exactly what it does; other then it does communicate to docwagon when it sees fit, and they can't mess with it.

Sometimes, you just need that medical attention, regardless of the cost... Besides, that homing beacon is dormant until triggerred...

I'm not trying to find them for the players per se. The PCs are all former cops and detectives, organizing a dick for hire agency. Tracking the Doc Wagon cards that legitimate citizens would carry will be essential to their investigative techniques.

You believe in the tooth fairy too?

Every Morning when I wake up with a Quarter under my Pillow... how about you?
Pessimism is a poor trait to live your life by...

Thanks for asking though...

Sometimes, things are just a game effect. Doc Wagon can be over analyzed or it can be considered a "Get out of Morgue Free" card.


But people are free to be as hard on themselves as they want.

This is SO TRUE...........

I don't think I would allow that (although you're welcome to) as it would be insanely powerful.

For one thing, it would be bad for business for Doc Wagon if anyone could track their RFID chips.

Even cracking them should be extremely difficult, as Doc Wagon's entire business is based on these chips. I imagine the chips used by Doc Wagon are something akin to Stealth Tags in that they only respond to certain frequencies that carry a passcode. And I think Doc Wagon's chips would have a device rating of 4~6.


That being said, I think essential investigative techniques would be a combination of the following:

• Using RFID stealth chips of their own to track people.
• Using micro drones, spy toys, cameras and sensors.
• Using magic & summoned watchers.
• Using the vast wealth of info on the matrix to hunt people down (people leave massive datatrails they are generally unaware of).
• Using Social Skills to get information and having a wide variety of contacts.

I Hope that helps. And I think doing those things would be a lot more fun in-game as opposed to just letting them find anyone who has a doc wagon chip anytime they want.

^^ Although I hadn't intended for the chips to be simple to crack or DocWagon willing to simply surrender any information the PCs want, you do make good points. I do enjoy to gm my campaign worlds as a non-static place that the characters can change or affect in varying ways. Perhaps if the players are able to succeed in ripping off the DocWagon databases, public loss of faith in the brand will force competitors to step in and offer similar services for variable prices (and no doubt varying success).
But you are right, things like PC-NPC interaction will be important. I've already started building a folder of quick change NPCs and Contacts.
I plan to throw dark violent cases their way, so forensic evidence gathering (magical, matrix and otherwise) are going to be important too.

That's definitely an interesting scenario.




Sounds like a fun game, an (paranormal?) investigative team who can cover a wide range of clients. It would give archtypes like bounty hunters, former cops, faces, occult investigators, etc. a really good chance to shine - while also leaving room for Mages, Riggers, Hackers, etc. to also fit in.

You could even consider giving or forcing all of them to take the SINner quality. Then, they will really have to think twice about engaging in shady activities and being careful when they do.

It'll pose an interesting issue as their quarry will be able to use tactics that they can't, whereas they have authority or legality (or quasi-legality) on their side.

That's the next step I have to tackle in campaign prep. I wanted the PCs (hit the nail on the head about which character types I'm trying to highlight) to have an aspect of corruption to them. As such I am planning the opening of the campaign on the day they are all released from a maximum security pen. This will have forced them to bond prior to gameplay, and make the players (notorious goody-goodies) embrace their villainous ways. I don't wnat to handcuff them too much, so the SINner quality may take some consideration. Any thoughts?

If that is the case, they should all have criminal SINs.

Well, getting out of a Maximum Security pen has some significant drawbacks.

For one thing, I'm not even sure what maximum security in the 6th world entails. I imagine it might be the most confined of all lock downs and inmates probably would not have much contact with each other to bond.

Hell, they could be forced to spend most of their time in pre-fab VR with their bodies hooked up to life support systems, with only monthly exercise sessions.



Also, just getting out of prison means (as overcannon mentioned), they all have criminal SINs.

Here's an excerpt from pg. 259 of the core rulebook.



Starting the characters with criminal SINs means they could have a hard time even buying bus tickets, or open a bank account.

Their DNA is in storage in multiple law-enforcement databases.


That's truly brutal, the characters would have very little freedom even though they were out of prison.


What I might do differently is to connect the characters backgrounds as good guys who lost their way. They live in a shady gray area of life, even though they are legal citizens (remember, having a SIN is a drawback for a shadowrunner, a criminal SIN is much worse).

Concoct some story, about how they either each individually fell from grace or how they fell together as a group.

Maybe they had gambling debts, bills to pay, a wife who cheated and a crime of passion. Maybe they each of them through one sin or another were brought together by a powerful blackmailing figure who might still be dangling that info in front of their noses and uses it to get them to perform even more heinous deeds.

Maybe they killed someone on accident, and unlike Shadowrunners who do that thing all the time, had to cover it up and try to pretend it never happened as they went back to their normal lives. Maybe the person they killed was a powerful Mafia/Yakuza bosses child/sibling/friend, etc.


The characters are bound through this dark act in their past which has brought them together. They've decided to work together (or were forced to), or maybe to keep an eye on each other or for mutual protection. Regardless, they are all in this together trying to scrape by in a soulless life without morals or honor.


You could even think of maybe 3 or 4 possible dark secrets and let them choose as a group the one they like they most, giving them some creative freedom for their backstory (or maybe they could even concoct it themselves).

This would lead to the next process of detailing what happened, how, and who did what. What happened afterwards, and how has it affected their characters.

I agree that the PCs should have a criminal SIN, I'm just concerned it may make their lives too difficult. Anyone out there with experience running a team with criminal SINs? What kind of problems can this create for game enjoyment?

Yeah that's what I was trying to get at in the last post, I think a criminal SIN would make their lives extremely difficult and that finding another way to bind them might be better.

I just wanted to say thank you all for the paranoid Doc Wagon talks. Gives me some really cool ideas to look into with our resident hacker.

Don't forget the best part about DocWagon. If corporate security sees them pick you up, the corporation can and will file an extradition order forcing DocWagon to turn you over to them once you've been treated.

Yeah I know unfortunately been there and done that. LOL

What about false SINs? How reliable could they be? I really want the released from prison idea to work as none of the players have experienced Shadowrun and having them in prison while the wireless matrix springs up gives a perfect oppurtunity to describe the vast new world to new players.

DocWagon is a good save when you're in neutral territory with some somewhat believeable wounds.

Like our Elven Wannabe Bio-Ninja, who jumped off his bike from a higher elevated highway to a lower one to chop a drone in half.

He was doing great until the landing. He missed the bike.

And landed flat footed. Can you say broken ankles, knees, leg bones, cracked pelvis...

Well an opposed test takes place a scanning device rating against the lvl of fake sin rating. It's up to the GM to decide what rating is scanning for the particular situation and hopefully will remember not every beat cop is gonna have a rating 6 scanner.

^^ belly laughs

My very first character was immedietly jumped by Halloweeners upon game start. They stabbed out one of my eyes and sliced off a hand with a monofilament whip. The Doc Wagon attendants who saved me from bleeding out in the street became that characters most helpful contacts throughout the campaign.

Had a funny incident happen with my first character. He had a platinum and other PC had a Basic. I went down first so my platinum activated. I over flowed and died. He would've as well because how in the middle of no where we were but my Platinum team got his dispatch as they were coming in the area so in turn my death saved his life. Kinda cool but sucky at the same time.

With the cutbacks they've been having lately, it's likely been a Rating 3 that just got Downgraded to 2 because of the overload on the servers back at the Cop Shop.

And there's the spam hitting the checker, lowering it's efficiency even more. What? Didn't get the updates for the Firewall? Cost too much, the budget department said. Oh dear.

AHHH. Budget cuts every criminals best friend.

Reliable until your players leave a microscopic shred of evidence, like an eyelash, or saliva, or skinflakes.



Well, if you really want it to work then you can make it work.

You're the GM after all.

But keep in mind that in the actual setting of the game, getting a criminal SIN is one of the more heinous (non-fatal) blunders a shadowrunner can make.


Is that the big main reason for the prison background? to introduce the characters to the setting?

Honestly, that's pretty rough for brand new players. Starting out with a criminal SIN with no choice otherwise would be hard on veteran players if the GM played it as the setting demands.

.

Honestly.... I came up with the campaign opening before I started reading through the books. Having not played myself since the early 90s, I actually forgot about things like the SIN until it came up on the boards here.
These are players I've played DnD with before, and I know they have a habit of not only playing good guys, but min-maxing on the equipment as well. I figured that the prison thing would demonstrate to the players before the game starts, that they are NOT good guys. And taking away any oppurtunity to overload on firearms, seemed like a good idea.
It's just a cool way to start the game, isn't it? I'd love for it to work, but disdain using my gm power to make contrivances unless they are the only option. You've brought up a great deal of good points.

They could have been in a foreign prison that does not data share with the UCAS, like Aztlan. Maybe even a NAN country, although I am not sure who wouldn't data share Criminal SINs with the UCAS, since I am at work right now I can't pull out my ShadowLibrary™!

Yeah it's a sticky issue.

A normal shadowrunner is going to go through fake SINs fairly often, due to the massive datatrail you leave just by walking the street.




Don't worry about min maxing equipment, it's totally normal in this game.

Now that doesn't mean they can walk down the street with an assault cannon, so when the cops start busting them they'll get the hint to try and conceal a bit.




Well, without a SIN they can't get jobs. Not having money to pay rent or eat is a great starting motivator to commit crimes. From there, it won't take much of a push to have them involved in all kinds of shady activities.

Blackmail, extortion, double crosses, so many ways to push them further and further down a dark path.

As a matter of fact, you can use their wanna-be good guy attitude against them.

Toss damsels in distress at them, who beg for help without much to pay to be saved from their abusive boyfriend. Only to find out that she's connected to the mafia and just sent them into the teeth of the Yakuza or the Vorys. With a good guy attitude, they'll probably fall right for it. Eventually when they no longer trust even 2 year old infants to be what they look like, then you've made them into shadowrunners.

In my game they just end up incap-ing the cops... It's really annoying.

Solution is more cops. More than they can incapacitate.

Drone Cops, try Incaping those with a Blackjack.

And, even if they do, more Drones come, with guns. Big guns.

I ran a character who essentially was an outlaw biker, with a criminal SIN. It didn't bother him much. He carried fake IDs (and used disguises) when running, but not for everyday. Everyday he looked like what he was.

But he's not trying to run a vaguely legitimate business (he worked, sort of, as a mechanic for a motorcyle shop who had a lot of OMG customers), he avoided dealing with cops and non-predatory interactions with normal people. Having a criminal SIN means you can't get a license to run a detective agency, you can't work as a detective, you can't posses a firearm, etc. It's a lot easier to work as a drug dealer, pimp and muscle.

An important point.

Well... I think that a combination of suggestions here have solved the criminal SIN problem. Having a high raniking (yet equally corrupt) official pardon the characters in order to put them in his pocket gets past having them leave prison with the 'bad' ID. Another suggestion to offer BP gear purchases as a 'stash' instead of on character gear solves the gear issue (other than cyberware). Even tho I intend now to release the PCs from prison under a pardon, I'm not informing them about the pardon and lack of criminal SIN until later. Make them afraid. The continuing punishment that the criminal SIN would have presented, I'm replacing with a group of "parole officers" who will antagonize the PCs throughout the campaign. These NPCs will consist of a self-appointed group of corrupt Lone Star officers and bounty hunters who crossed the PCs paths prior to imprisonment. As for the stashed gear, I am presenting them with a maximum BP spend of 30 points on gear. They can choose to pay half the cost of permanent lifestyle and have their own "secured" stash point, or skip that cost and choose one of their contacts to hold the gear for them. Since this is a free option, their contacts may NOT keep the stashed equipment in the same pristine condition it was left in (picture the Ferrarri scene from Ferris Bueller). I am also going to give the PCs several free contacts and skills (nothing too primo of course) to represent their time in prison.
Whatcho guys think?

Pretty cool, but.. If I had gotten someone a full pardon I'd be absolutely sure they knew that I was why they were on the outside. And they would have a limo to my office waiting outside the prison so I could discuss this matter. The Dr Strangelove trick, "You know how the Premiere likes surprises", is likely to work about as well as it did in the film.

Not sure where you are going with this but actually I might have them delivered to where the patron could meet them still in their standard transport cuffs and leg irons, so they could be put in the right attitude. Discuss how unfortunate it is to be in jail, etc.. Tell them you could do a lot for them if they are willing to commit to helping me, in vague terms. Then he justs hands them the pardon and tells them he expects to see them the Monday after next at blah. They get jeans and tsirts and dropped by a taxi wherever they want.

The only person who can pardon in most US/Canadian states is the state and the national chief executive, so that kind of limits who they could be working for. Not completely, but it's a pretty small list of who could get the Governor or president to sign the paperwork.

Once you are pardoned you are pardoned. If cops harrass you you just report them like any other upstanding citizen who has a billionaire or the governor as their patron would.

I'd just wipe the Criminal SIN after terrifying them. No BP cost, it's a GM freebie and they now have a regular SIN.

^^
I like to keep my players jumping at shadows. I'm postive that the second they figure out that they don't actually have a criminal SIN, they're gonna go nuts. With a red herring or two thrown at them, I'm hoping to see them struggle with cracking the wrong skulls in the search for answers. Maybe once they've faced enough paranormal beastlies and astral plane sppoks they'll even start to question their own perceptions, doubt reality, turn in the darkness to pills and inhalants. Then, throw the patrons true identity and his twisted plots at them. "Mwa ha ha," the madman screams, "I've been manipulating you all along!" I dunno.... Kinda sadistic I guess.

What do you mean sadistic? I think it sounds like being a good GM

This is an entire premise for one of the adventures in Ghost Cartels....

- J.

^^
har har... I had no idea.... Maybe Catalyst should let me write some adventures for them.

Send them a proposal.