Hello runners, gm's and developers.

I have just started a SR group (here in trondheim norway) and we have some issues with Rigger3.

One of my players is a rigger and wants to make a car that can hold stuff (ie larger then sedan) and have a turret and some other goodies. Reading through the Parts Avaiability Cost for Turrets makes my head hurt. Reading the Convertion guide that updates Rigger3 to revised does not make it any better.

The remote turret they are looking for has a part cost of 9000. So that makes the TN for obtaining the parts 22,5. Is this true or what? It also says that all turrets above small are security grade only. And what of popup turrets? Are the availability higher for them?

Over to some GM issues. Do you allow your players to make cars during chargen? What lilimts do you put on them. Do they have to pay for all the hours spent as well?

regards
Bjarte

I do not usually allow custom vehicles. I would allow instead customised vehicles. It is more probable that a PC has access to a normal vehicle and then customising it than he managed to obtain a total custom vehicle.

And I would enforce the Avail/SI strictly(especially for turrets and weapons).

Well, first off, Rigger 3 doesn't calculate Availability by price%400, they do price/400, truncated (or is it rounded up? I forget). Price%400 would be odd (something with a cost of ¥7,999 would be impossible to get (TN 399), while something costing ¥8,000 would have an avail of 0 and thus be all over the place).
As for the actual availability, I can't tell you off the top of my head. If no one answers by the time I get back from courses, I'll see if I can look anything up.

~J

Kageetanshi: i think i formated myself abit wrong there. what i meant saying was

TN = price of vehicle / (devided by) 400. The book uses the symbol % that was why i used it here, but i am aware of the mathematical use of %.

So that would mean that the parts for a turret that cost 8000 has a Availability of 20? I think it is strange then that a drone with a micro turret in it has a Availability of 8.

regards
Bjarte

Make it a "/1000" houserule.

So what is the lowest possible turret availability (plain micro turret I suppose).

I think it is still fairly high, 12 or so.

I would say that rule is screwed up. Really lots of the rules in rigger 3 are dumb. Why is it now impossible to remove the normal controls from a vehicle through customization? Why are there rules for designing aircraft carriers?

Anyway if the gm refuses to change it just buy lots of those strato 9 drones with the mmg sensors 5 and availability 8 or whatever (far lower than either its sensors or weapon).

meus,

First off - welcome to the boards! There are some very knowledgable people here, who know the rules backwards in several languages (joke. Almost), and will not hesitate to point out tiny sentences from sourcebooks to back up their arguments. I personally find this irritating, and at the same time extremely useful indeed! I am not one of these people, having played the game so long I tend to use old rules and material from SR2 without realising at all. I do have plenty of experience though!

one thing to bear in mind with the vehicles, guns, and other kit available to buy off the shelf in SR is just that - its 'off the shelf'. Its full production models. The Banshee LAV is a prime example of this. Its far too cheap if you try to make one using the rules. But that's because its been in service for a long time. The tech is old.

Likewise many of the drones, which is why it seems a bit off.

The gun creation rules are the same. You are creating prototype, first run models, so they cost more. (actually in some cases they are downright impossible, but this is explained away by unique patents and stuff like that, which aren't available or properly understood by anyone except the manufacturer).



On your later question - I don't allow players to design and build vehicles, unless they have access to the relevant facilities and resources, which is unlikely. However, if the character has the relevant skills, and the player uses them to make a design and then approached a corp with references and so on... the corp might buy it from them and make it their own, and then the player can buy one!

Also, if they are looking for a new vehicle, and there isn't one in the book which quite suits their needs, I'll let them tell me what they're looking for, and go and design something which is a close fit that I think someone might make, and then they can see about acquiring one through the normal means (i.e., track one down, and steal it!).


Hope that's been of use to you.