In game mechanic terms, what do I need to do to make a character that can: Hit a target in the head (kill shot) at a range of thirty meters, in the dark, from the back of a moving ship in moderate seas. Since this is apparently something that Navy SEALs can do without the aid of cyberware or magic, this should be more than achievable in the game. As other people out there must have made sniper characters, what to I need to do? Any advice on how to make a character with that capability and more would be very welcome.

Thanks,
AFE

The basic shit you will need:

High Agility (5+, 8+with cyberware)
High Skill (4-5, higher if you can manage)
Cybereyes with: Low Light, Thermo, Image Mag, Image Enhancement 3, Flare Compensation
Smartlink.
Rifle of your chosen type.

Extra fun, if you feel like it:
Reflex Recorders
Custom cyberarms with ridiculously high Agility mods


So. With Agility 8, Rifles of 5, Cybereyes, Smartlink, and a rifle, you're looking at a diepool of 15, with the ability to ignore the vast majority of light-related modifiers, the ability to spot people real well, and the ability to negate range problems at long or extreme range.

SO. At 30 meters, any rifle will be at short range. No modifier there. At night? No modifier with low light as long as there's a modicum of light being shed on the target, which is pretty easy on a boat what with running lights and such. No modifier there. Pitching boat? We'll say between -1 and -2 dice which can be negated by 3 take aim actions. Note: the rules say if a target moves, Take Aim is broken. I ignore that line for regular movements, such as a car at constant speed. At worse, you'll be at -1 even if your gm applies that rule verbatim. Now you wanna hit their head? Let's say a called shot for +4 damage, because allowing "it's their head, it's an instant kill" is broken.

So 15 dice, minus 1 (worst case) for relative movements minus 1 take aim action, minus 4 for the headshot. 10 dice. 10 dice will produce 3-4 hits, for an average damage of 7p (rifle) + 3p (successes) + 4p (called shot) for a total of 14p. As you're sniping them, they're surprised and get no reaction roll to dodge. Body + armor on a pirate will probably be 8-10, which will reduce the total damage by about 3, thereby giving you a remainder of 11p damage.

Plenty to kill a guy.

It's not Shadowrun-specific, but I'm going to leave this article I saw today right here.

Just a little side not, but a range of 30 Meters is absolutely NOTHING for a skilled sniper to accomplish. Standard Marine Corps Rifle training extends out to 500 Meters on a consistent basis. Most of the Marine Corps Snipers that I knew (I knew several) could make a 1000 meter "Kill" shot with open sighted M16 Rifles and did so on many occassions on the target range... with an appropriate sniper rifle, well, lets say that they were deadly at some fairly long/extreme ranges...

That aside... A normal Human in SR4 would need a good Agility (4-6), a good Skill (3-5+) some vision enhancement technology (to negate the range penalties and provide night vision capabilities), a specialization in Sniper Rifles would not hurt either... all this without the requirement of Cyberware/Bioware/Magic... You could have from 9-13 Dice, sans Smartlink which could add 2 more dice for 11-15 Dice... a few penalties (Moving firing platform possibly, moving target platform possibly, and called Shot to the "Head" for up to an additional +4 damage) ... All told possible negative modifiers equaling out to maybe 6 or so, leaving 5-9 Dice for an initial base damage of between 11-13 Physical Damage - Based upon Sniper Rifle Design)... Totally Human, and totally doable without any "Augmentation" whatsoever...

My Two Cents...

The biggest rifle you can find also helps. So if you can get your hands on a Barrett, that takes care of a lot of the work right there.

As does taking the time to get the right ammo. In the earlier example it was demonstrated using called shot to up the damage and then resist the armor. Depending on what type of armor the snipers see (remember that this is a situation that went on for a couple of days) they could go for the extra damage of some ammo types, or the extra armor piercing capability of others. When you combine these with the rifle, it really doesn't take much to make the 1 shot 1 kill type of sniper in this game. When a sniper is doing their job right, their target doesn't get a defense roll, so it doesn't take much to get the hit, with each extra success just adding a little bit more to the chunky-salsa visual the sniper gets after pulling the trigger.

Also remember, that in Shadowrun there are lots of other fun ways to make a sniper. A spell-sniper might have to resist drain, but is another highly viable option.

Meet The Sniper

Martial Arts 5BP Advantage lets you ready weapon or take aim as a free action if you pick Krav Maga. For 10BP take both.

- J.

No real point in taking both since you only get 1 free action. If you want to take a 2nd free action it takes a simple action. Stacking up free action type maneuvers is great for versatility, but they do not stack.

I found various references to these top sniper kills in the field, so they seem to be legitimate.

1. Master Cpl. Arron Perry - 2,430 metres - the current record for longest range sniper kill is 7,972 ft, accomplished by a Canadian sniper, of the third battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (3 PPCLI), during the invasion of Afghanistan, using a .50 BMG (12.7 mm) McMillan bolt-action rifle. That's some shot he broke Carlos Hathcocks record for the longest range sniper kill. The round had a flight time of four seconds, and a drop of 44.5 m (146 ft).

2. Carlos Hathcock - 2,286 meters - In 1967, Hathcock set the record for the 20th century's longest combat kill with a Browning M2 .50 BMG machine gun mounting a telescopic sight. The distance was 2,286 meters or 1.42 miles.

3. Corporal Matt Hughes - 860 meters - a 28 yr-old Royal Marines marksman, was ordered to “take out� an Iraqi holding back a vital advance during a fierce gale. He pulled off an incredible feat of marksmanship by gauging perfectly the wind speed to bend the bullet to its target. The 7.62 calibre round from his L96 sniper rifle curved 56ft in the air before striking its target in the chest, killing him instantly.

And, per Wikipedia:

"By contrast, much of the U.S./Coalition urban sniping in support of operations in Iraq is at much shorter ranges, although in one notable incident on April 3, 2003, Corporals Matt and Sam Hughes, a two-man sniper team of the Royal Marines, armed with L96 sniper rifles each killed targets at a range of about 860 metres (941 yd) with shots that, due to strong wind, had to be “fire[d] exactly 17 meters (56 ft) to the left of the target for the bullet to bend in the wind.�[13]"

"During Operation Enduring Freedom, Spanish Navy Marine snipers shot cables hanging from the mast to the bridge of the North Korean freighter So San, smuggling Scud missiles through the waters of Socotra Island. These cables were preventing it from being boarded by fast rope for an arms inspection. The shots were made at a range of 400 yards (370 m), with rough sea, from the deck of SPS Navarra (F85), and the Marines were armed with Barrett M95 rifles"

Ahhh, the sniper... my fav Sammy. If nothing else, avoiding cyberware, you need to build a crazy scope for him.

Stat/skill wise in a human, your going to want a 5 Agility, 6 Longarms (Sniper Rifle spec), Smartgun, and Krav Maga 1 (Take aim free). If your considering ware, pick up the highest muscle toner you can get, Reflex Recorders and lots of sensor ware. You'll be pulling 15 dice without aiming no ware or 18~20 dice with ware.

If your making a begining character and can't get a Barrett, the Ares Desert Strike is a good choice. $3,350 without mods. With a build in silencer, chameleon coating, easy breakdown (powered), and underbarrel Smartgun, it will run you $8,700 for a solid dependable rifle that will break down into a briefcase, make itself 'invisable', and is very quiet.

I got an 800BP sniper in the community projects side of the Forum that throws 22 dice any firearm (before specilization and smartgun).

Writer: you never read of Simo Häyhä, or did you?
When it comes to Sniper badassery, this is your (sadly deceased) man.

Not to step on Adarael's toes, but I wanted to run my own starting character build ...

I would start with Agility 6, Rifle 6 with a specialization in sniper rifles for a starting skill of 12. Muscle Toner 2, Enhanced articulation and Reflex Recorder bring the total to 16. Smartgun link brings it to 18. If the target is within 150 meters (sniper rifles short range) you can forego the magnification and apply up to +3 in aiming bonus. Now, we are looking at 21 dice. In an urban setting, this is quite possible, while still maintaining a reliable escape route. A Walther with EX-explosive rounds start with a damage code of 9P/-5. Trading 4 dice can raise this to 13P/-5 and leave you with 17 dice. If you are doing that one critical shot, go ahead and use your Edge with this shot. Let's go with an Edge of 6, you now are up to 23 dice, and any 6 is re-rolled. This should net an average of 8 hits, though there is potential for quite a bit higher. Now we are looking at 21P/-5. That AP rating is serious business, and unless the target is a seriously cybered troll, they may still end up burning their Edge just to survive.

Now, once in play, you can upgrade the Muscle toner to level 4 (+2 dice), get a Barret, which starts with a damage code of 9P/-4 instead of 7P/-3. If you started with Exceptional Attribute and Aptitude, you will eventually have two more dice to add. (27 dice rolled, netting over 9 net hits, raising the damage to 24/-6.) Needless to say, this is pretty much the only thing you do, but each shot you take probably nets you some major bucks.

Elves get a higher Agility, but Humans have a higher Edge, so using the above formula, you would eventually have another +1 die either way you go. Even at extreme range (with vision magnification and lighting compensation), when your aiming doesn't add dice, you are only losing three dice, an average of 1 net hit. With the damage values we have been looking at, is this really going to be an issue?

I wouldn't play this character, because of the limited scope (no pun in tended) but it sure would be fun for a bit to be THAT good at something.

I will say this about snipers. I wish there wasn't a need for them in the battlefield as the job takes a lot out of them (emotionally and mentally). I applaud what they can do, I just wish they didn't have to do it.

I have met a few (retired) snipers. They are good people, though sometimes a little quirky. Though, Nowhere near as quirky as the EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal) people I have met.

Some notes!

My build wasn't designed to be optimized, just "this is what you'll generally want to accomplish your goals". And generally all that kind of stuff I'd put on a street sam anyway. I dislike making "this is the best possible build to accomplish this goal" sample characters, because generally they sacrifice versatility and end up screwed in actual play.


Sadly, Enhanced Articulation no longer gives bonus dice to combat skills. It gives a bonus die to PHYSICAL skills, but that's a distinct and specific category from shootin' dudes. Gymnastics, running, etc, are all physical skills. Anything shooty is a "Combat skill.


Only if the target isn't moving, sadly. If the target moves, the take aim is broken. That's why I suggested the worst possible bonus for the OP's example of "on a moving boat" - +1 for one "Take Aim" simple action, the second simple action to shoot.

And I admit, I was using a 'standard' bolt-action rifle rather than a sniper rifle in the example, due purely to availability concerns. I didn't wanna factor in Edge either, for the generally variable nature of the stat.


Only if you're an elf or purchase exceptional attribute. Otherwise you can only upgrade to Toner 3. Agility has an augmented max of 9, barring special cases.

There arent any sniper in Shado-

If you want hardcore minmaxing, I'm reasonably sure the following is legal at chargen.

-Elf Adept
-Agility 8 (exceptional attribute)
-Longarms 7(Sniper rifles 9) (Aptitude: Longarms)
-Muscle toner 2
-Reflex recorder: Longarms
-Improved Attribute: Agility +3
-Improved ability: Longarms +3
-Krav Maga (take aim)

Net total: 13 Agility + 13 longarms + 2 smartlink = 28 dice. Yeah, he's scary.

You can do worse.
Elf, Metagenetic improvement, Genetic Optimization, Exceptional Attribute.
Makes for a 10(15) maximum Attribute
And you can get your Base Attribute to 8, because one of those not only extends the maximum but also ADDS a point to the Attribute.
Then get Cyber-Arms that are from Augmentation, maxed in Atttribute to your Biological Maximum.
Which, in this Case, would be 10, if i ain't mistaken. Then add in enhanced attribute level 3 and you are at 13 Agility without the need for a Torso.
Then there comes skill. let's say long-arms/your rifle here 5/7. Maybe add in Reflex recorder. Smart-Link, Eye-Stuff to get rid of Visibility Modifiers, cyer-Arm-Gyro-Mount,
and yes, you get up there without needing stinking magic in there . .

And with this built, you can shoot any gun reasonably well too. so you are not stuck as a sniper.
shadowrunning usually takes place in buildings, where a sniper will be pretty much useless.
Now a Gunman that can shoot anything and excells at sniping, that is something entirely different.

Wow... Certainly robust characters there...
Probably more than I would start with at Chargen, but hey...

Thanks, Adarael, for the corrections : )

I was removing the character from the boat, just to see what could be done in the streets. Urban sniping as cover for the rest of the team would probably be at short ranges, because you don't want to stray too far from your team. I didn't take into account the max for muscle toner. And, I didn't realize that combat skills and physical skills are different. <sigh> But, I can't say that is a bad thing, really. Blue, my aging former special forces runner with a girl friend and child, part time day job, and criminal SIN is more concerned about getting shadow work in the first place, rather than what one more "die" will get him. In other words, there is plenty more to worry about than squeezing that last bonus out of the mechanics. Besides, with what is given, snipers can still take down whatever they point at.

That is so very, very true...

Just wanted to say real cool discussion here and while I don't really have any stats advice (at the moment) I do have two interesting things to relate
1. Involving the pirates, the interesting thing is,,the destroyer the S.E.A.L.s were on was called the USS Bainbridge, Bainbridge happened to be one of the major figures in the Barbary Wars!

2. Remember, as most combat in shadowrun will be a urban in nature you'll want to think of things from the perspective of a police sniper, not a military one. The difference is this, a battlefield is often more wide open than most urban places (yes I know there are urban battles but many, if not most, battles, are not urban) and getting a one shot kill is not terribly important so being able to hit someone at very long range is the important part. While you do have to be accurate to hit someone at a long range, the point is that you will often have more than one shot to hit a man sized target. A police sniper, on the otherhand, is generally in an urban area and is very close, relatively speaking, to their target 150-200m max (whereas military snipers can often engage people out to 500-750m using rather modest estimates, the current reccord for longest kill is 2430 meters with a large bore rifle, those kills beyond 700-1000m are uncommon) a police sniper, as they are often brought in when hostages are involved generally only has one shot because if the target is not taken down, a hostage will most likely be killed. This means that they will need to target extremely vital areas, such as the brainstem, which will result in instant death but is only one inch wide and a few inches long.

IN SHORT: For those of you who don't like details, police (urban) style sniping is about extreme accuracy at very close range and the one shot kill is emphasized. Military sniping is based on hitting a man sized target at considerable range.

P.S. You win, I hereby award you one internet.

Eh, that would be hardcore maxing. The min still hits pretty hard(in fact since you are hard maxing, it hits harder.)

What would be more interesting to play is a former military/police sniper that has, for some reason, fallen off the grid. He hasn't been practicing (moderate skills - they do need practice to maintain high levels), moderate attributes (too much trid, too many snacks, too many drinks), some lingering contacts in the field, knowledge skills on ballistics and basic physics, old police/SWAT hangouts. "Heard you were good once. Can you still hit the mark? There is a chunk of money for you if you can take care of our problem." The character has to acquire a weapon (could be as simple as a hunting rifle), plan the strike, and the get away, then deal with the payoff (maybe erasing the SIN). Then, quite the day job, look for more work in the shadows, and make that long climb back to excellence with practice and equipment.

Ah, if only I had someone to run this for me.
(Any takers? Could do this online)

He is also impossible to build and has more dice then he should. Nice try though but if your going to do a dice pool exercise your numbers need to be right.

the range might be limited, but what about a drone with sensors and pilot of 6, targeting and clearsight 6, and a mounted sniper rifle (or a sniper rifle with piloting and a propulsion system) then use active targeting of 12 unapposed save for the -3 for metahuman signatures. average 3 hits that go to your actual shot for 15 dp and you're not even there! or the rigger jumps in with 6 perception and 6 or more gunnery and a VCR, now you're rolling 11 to lock on and those net hits are added to the 14 you roll to shoot, plus the option to spend edge

edit: autosofts only go to 4.... but still a fun idea

This is actually the precise system I believe big-league snipers use in Shadowrun. There's no fluff to support it, but I think it's extemely in-theme to have the 2070 'sniper' be essentially a guy who rigs a drone articulation system.