Soo . . on the german shadowrun board shadowrun-nexus.de we were just talking and this came up . . through threadjacking *looks around innocently*
What are the limits of the Edge Natural Immunity?
Can you have natural Immunity against Laes?
What about DMSO? Would that render most Contact Vector Poisons harmless?
I've always felt it was crazy expensive for what you got.
Funny, I was just wondering about DMSO. That sure would be a helpful immunity.
DMSO is not a poison. Natural Immunity (DMSO) is a bit like Natural Immunity (Water), in that by the time you start to feel the effects of actual DMSO poisoning you're gut is probably bulging because you've been drinking gallons of it.
The only thing you can't have an immunity to are "magical" poisons, like some critter toxins and magical compounds, etc.; laés is merely an Awakened drug and not magical per-se, so it's cool (there's actually a character in Ghost Cartels with that quality).
The only thing you can't have an immunity to are "magical" poisons, like some critter toxins and magical compounds, etc.; laés is merely an Awakened drug and not magical per-se, so it's cool (there's actually a character in Ghost Cartels with that quality).
Immunity ringu for me. Yes I have a runner with acsses to that stuff. to coat a spur or two with plus load in his holdouts.
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Apr 23 2009, 12:10 AM) 
DMSO is not a poison. Natural Immunity (DMSO) is a bit like Natural Immunity (Water), in that by the time you start to feel the effects of actual DMSO poisoning you're gut is probably bulging because you've been drinking gallons of it.
The only thing you can't have an immunity to are "magical" poisons, like some critter toxins and magical compounds, etc.; laés is merely an Awakened drug and not magical per-se, so it's cool (there's actually a character in Ghost Cartels with that quality).
The only thing you can't have an immunity to are "magical" poisons, like some critter toxins and magical compounds, etc.; laés is merely an Awakened drug and not magical per-se, so it's cool (there's actually a character in Ghost Cartels with that quality).
. . you know, i am beginning to think that some day, if you have died in the ripe old age of 200 years, someone will put your brain next to that of people like albert einstein O.o
Personally, i liked the natural immunity of SR3.
5 points gave you one natural poison(like fugu for example)
10 points gave you one man made poison(GammaScopolamine for example)
I don't know my way around the SR4 stuff, especially drugs and poisons, but i guess i would probably take something like pepper-punch or so.
something that i am bound to encounter fairly often in the hands of both skilled and unskilled users, simply because it is so widespread in use.
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Apr 22 2009, 11:10 PM)
DMSO is not a poison.
True.
I was thinking of using the Immunization Transgenic Treatment which clearly would apply to DMSO. The RAW permits Immunization to apply to any chemical compound although close reading of the fluff makes me suspect that it would be reasonable to charge the Neurotoxin 'rate' for DMSO Immunization.
QUOTE (crizh @ Apr 23 2009, 12:53 AM)
True.
I was thinking of using the Immunization Transgenic Treatment which clearly would apply to DMSO. The RAW permits Immunization to apply to any chemical compound although close reading of the fluff makes me suspect that it would be reasonable to charge the Neurotoxin 'rate' for DMSO Immunization.
I was thinking of using the Immunization Transgenic Treatment which clearly would apply to DMSO. The RAW permits Immunization to apply to any chemical compound although close reading of the fluff makes me suspect that it would be reasonable to charge the Neurotoxin 'rate' for DMSO Immunization.
Now that i think about it . . DMSO acts only as a carrier by SOMEHOW through the magic of handwavium allowing anything to pass through the pores of your skin . .
now how does it do that? O.o
does it take the "too big" parts, chops em up and then puts them back together in the bloodstream?
we'll most likely never have a satisfying answer . . as long as uncle ancient does not have something ^^
i'll just accept the "no" answer then ^^
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 23 2009, 12:02 AM)
Now that i think about it . . DMSO acts only as a carrier by SOMEHOW through the magic of handwavium allowing anything to pass through the pores of your skin . .
now how does it do that? O.o
now how does it do that? O.o
With SCIENCE!
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Apr 23 2009, 12:49 AM)
Oddly that is the first thing I checked on reading the previous post.
However a careful read does not reveal a mechanism for DMSO's marvellous skin penetrating properties it merely states that it possesses them.
It's a little obscure, but Dr. Szmant has some thoughts.
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Apr 23 2009, 01:13 AM)
It's a little obscure, but Dr. Szmant has some thoughts.
Cool, thanks.
That's going to have to wait until I've sobered up.....
QUOTE
The lipids of the topmost layer of the skin, the stratum corneum, represent the primary barrier to molecules penetrating the skin. One approach to overcoming this barrier for the purpose of delivery of active molecules into or via the skin is to employ chemical permeability enhancers, such as dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO). How these molecules exert their effect at the molecular level is not understood. We have investigated the interaction of DMSO with gel-phase bilayers of ceramide 2, the predominant lipid in the stratum corneum, by means of molecular dynamics simulations. The simulations satisfactorily reproduce the phase behavior and the known structural parameters of ceramide 2 bilayers in water. The effect of DMSO on the gel-phase bilayers was investigated at various concentrations over the range 0.00.6mol fraction DMSO. The DMSO molecules accumulate in the headgroup region and weaken the lateral forces between the ceramides. At high concentrations of DMSO (0.4mol fraction), the ceramide bilayers undergo a phase transition from the gel phase to the liquid crystalline phase. The liquid-crystalline phase of ceramides is expected to be markedly more permeable to solutes than the gel phase. The results are consistent with the experimental evidence that high concentrations of DMSO fluidize the stratum corneum lipids and enhance permeability.
http://www.cell.com/biophysj/abstract/S0006-3495(07)71460-1
Short version: DMSO interacts with the lipid bilayer in your epidermis. The lipid bilayer is normally something like a gel. DMSO gets in between the cap elements in the outer layer and pushes them apart, causing a phase change from gel to liquid crystal, which is a much more permeable phase.
There's presumably an upper bound on the size of molecules that you can transport with DMSO, but it could be quite large. It doesn't have to carry something through the bilayer as a pseudovesicle, it just makes the bilayer itself stop acting as a barrier.
And it's also toxic. You could presumably have DMSO immunity and feel less ill when hit with it (and reduce your potential risk of neurological damage), but without completely altering the biochemistry of skin you're just not going to become DMSO-proof.
Augh, my brain x.x . .
too many big/latin words for this early hour ._.
that will teach me to ask stupid questions @.@
too many big/latin words for this early hour ._.
that will teach me to ask stupid questions @.@
Chemistry/Biochemisty is cool.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.