This is probably the most random question ever, but:
What is the state of baseball in 2072?
We know a couple of things, from various sources. Besides SR4A's confirmation of its continued existence, most of the info I can find is in the Sixth World Wiki, though there are a couple of recent tidbits in Corporate Enclaves and Augmentation. (And, of course, the most wonderful Epilogue to System Failure.) So, some facts and a few guesses:
EDIT: SEE POST 11, BELOW.
So... did I miss anything?
Full Version: The Old Ball Game?
I wonder how many asterisks will be in the record books in the awakened world. I assume it would be one of the "clean" sports with no cyber/magic and I am fairly sure I read that it was like that. And that while it still was active was not nearly as popular as it once was. I'll try to dig up some info in one of the sourcebooks I saw it in but this is all like 2e or 3e info, I don't thinkits been covered in 4e yet.
Shadowbeat had a section on baseball, as did the two SR3 SOTA books.
You should check out the Manhattan PDF that was recently released. There is a table in there that lays out which megacorporation owns which New York based sports team. Yes, the Manhattan Yankees and the New York Mets are still around and are listed, and are owned by two different megacorps. It also lists the other NY sports teams such as football, combat biking, urban brawl teams, etc and who owns them.
Okay, so in my research I've noticed something: unless there's something in the two SotA books, which I haven't gotten ahold of yet, SR has no rules for baseball. Well, I have decided to change this. I have no idea how I'm going to do fielding, or how far the ball goes when hit, but I can do the basics of the plate.
The Set: Pitching, in general, is very similar to an attack with a grenade; this includes the fact that a pitcher make Take Aim for as long as he likes prior to his pitch. (Limited, of course, by both the Take Aim restrictions in SR4A and the "delay of game" restrictions in baseball.)
The Windup: The pitch itself is a Throwing + Agility roll, modified by a range penalty appropriate to the pitcher's Strength. A pitcher may take a full windup if he so wishes. (In baseball, this mostly happens on a 3-2 pitch or when the bases are empty.) If he does, he gains a +1 dice pool modifier to the roll; however, the batter also gains a +1 modifier to his roll, as he might have seen some cue indicating what pitch is coming.
The Throw: The Throwing + Agility roll is resolved as if it were a grenade attack (scatter 1d6) against a Reaction roll of 0 hits. However, if the scatter minus net hits is a positive number (0 is not a positive number in this case) the pitch is out of the strike zone and is a ball. If the pitcher glitches, the catcher must make a Reaction + Agility check with a threshold equal to the net hits of the pitch; on a failure, the ball gets by him. (Scored as a wild pitch if the pitch would have been a ball, or a passed ball if it would have been a strike.)
On a critical glitch, roll the Throwing + Agility roll again, and subtract successes from scatter. If this roll indicates a strike, the pitcher has pitched an "easy one right down the middle" and the batter gets a +4 bonus to his hitting roll. This bonus may bring his dice pool above the normal maximum of 20 or Attribute + Skill. If the roll indicates a ball, the pitch is heading right for the batter. Resolve this as a normal Throwing + Agility attack, with the batter rolling his Reaction and, if applicable, Body + Armor to resist damage. (Damage from a baseball is [STR/2]P.)
The Swing: A batter may choose to swing or not to swing; in either case, whether the pitch would have been a ball or a strike is not revealed to him until he chooses. If he does choose to swing, he rolls Reaction + Clubs as an opposed test against the Throwing + Agility roll the pitcher has made. If his roll is exactly equal to the pitcher's, he hits a foul ball out of play; if he misses, he gets a swinging strike; if his roll is higher, it's a solid hit. A glitch in any case means his bat breaks; a critical glitch means a foul pop-up. If the batter hits, and the pitch would have been a ball, he may instead choose to "check his swing;" in that case, a ball will be called (assuming the umpire makes the right call; see below).
The Call: In the event that the batter doesn't swing, and the scatter test was either negative or above 1, the umpire makes the correct call. If the scatter test was 0 or 1, or in any case where the batter checks his swing, the umpire rolls Perception + Intuition. There is no threshold for success, but in the event of a glitch (including a critical glitch) the umpire makes the wrong call -- a ball is a strike or a strike is a ball.
The Set: Pitching, in general, is very similar to an attack with a grenade; this includes the fact that a pitcher make Take Aim for as long as he likes prior to his pitch. (Limited, of course, by both the Take Aim restrictions in SR4A and the "delay of game" restrictions in baseball.)
The Windup: The pitch itself is a Throwing + Agility roll, modified by a range penalty appropriate to the pitcher's Strength. A pitcher may take a full windup if he so wishes. (In baseball, this mostly happens on a 3-2 pitch or when the bases are empty.) If he does, he gains a +1 dice pool modifier to the roll; however, the batter also gains a +1 modifier to his roll, as he might have seen some cue indicating what pitch is coming.
The Throw: The Throwing + Agility roll is resolved as if it were a grenade attack (scatter 1d6) against a Reaction roll of 0 hits. However, if the scatter minus net hits is a positive number (0 is not a positive number in this case) the pitch is out of the strike zone and is a ball. If the pitcher glitches, the catcher must make a Reaction + Agility check with a threshold equal to the net hits of the pitch; on a failure, the ball gets by him. (Scored as a wild pitch if the pitch would have been a ball, or a passed ball if it would have been a strike.)
On a critical glitch, roll the Throwing + Agility roll again, and subtract successes from scatter. If this roll indicates a strike, the pitcher has pitched an "easy one right down the middle" and the batter gets a +4 bonus to his hitting roll. This bonus may bring his dice pool above the normal maximum of 20 or Attribute + Skill. If the roll indicates a ball, the pitch is heading right for the batter. Resolve this as a normal Throwing + Agility attack, with the batter rolling his Reaction and, if applicable, Body + Armor to resist damage. (Damage from a baseball is [STR/2]P.)
The Swing: A batter may choose to swing or not to swing; in either case, whether the pitch would have been a ball or a strike is not revealed to him until he chooses. If he does choose to swing, he rolls Reaction + Clubs as an opposed test against the Throwing + Agility roll the pitcher has made. If his roll is exactly equal to the pitcher's, he hits a foul ball out of play; if he misses, he gets a swinging strike; if his roll is higher, it's a solid hit. A glitch in any case means his bat breaks; a critical glitch means a foul pop-up. If the batter hits, and the pitch would have been a ball, he may instead choose to "check his swing;" in that case, a ball will be called (assuming the umpire makes the right call; see below).
The Call: In the event that the batter doesn't swing, and the scatter test was either negative or above 1, the umpire makes the correct call. If the scatter test was 0 or 1, or in any case where the batter checks his swing, the umpire rolls Perception + Intuition. There is no threshold for success, but in the event of a glitch (including a critical glitch) the umpire makes the wrong call -- a ball is a strike or a strike is a ball.
In any of the Shadowrun canon, has it been indicated if the Cubs have won a world series? I guess the whole Bug City thing would throw a kink in that, but one would presume that the Cubs continued playing elsewhere during all that snafu.
QUOTE (tsuyoshikentsu @ Apr 27 2009, 05:54 PM) 
Okay, so in my research I've noticed something: unless there's something in the two SotA books, which I haven't gotten ahold of yet, SR has no rules for baseball. Well, I have decided to change this. I have no idea how I'm going to do fielding, or how far the ball goes when hit, but I can do the basics of the plate.
The Set: Pitching, in general, is very similar to an attack with a grenade; this includes the fact that a pitcher make Take Aim for as long as he likes prior to his pitch. (Limited, of course, by both the Take Aim restrictions in SR4A and the "delay of game" restrictions in baseball.)
The Windup: The pitch itself is a Throwing + Agility roll, modified by a range penalty appropriate to the pitcher's Strength. A pitcher may take a full windup if he so wishes. (In baseball, this mostly happens on a 3-2 pitch or when the bases are empty.) If he does, he gains a +1 dice pool modifier to the roll; however, the batter also gains a +1 modifier to his roll, as he might have seen some cue indicating what pitch is coming.
The Throw: The Throwing + Agility roll is resolved as if it were a grenade attack (scatter 1d6) against a Reaction roll of 0 hits. However, if the scatter minus net hits is a positive number (0 is not a positive number in this case) the pitch is out of the strike zone and is a ball. If the pitcher glitches, the catcher must make a Reaction + Agility check with a threshold equal to the net hits of the pitch; on a failure, the ball gets by him. (Scored as a wild pitch if the pitch would have been a ball, or a passed ball if it would have been a strike.)
On a critical glitch, roll the Throwing + Agility roll again, and subtract successes from scatter. If this roll indicates a strike, the pitcher has pitched an "easy one right down the middle" and the batter gets a +4 bonus to his hitting roll. This bonus may bring his dice pool above the normal maximum of 20 or Attribute + Skill. If the roll indicates a ball, the pitch is heading right for the batter. Resolve this as a normal Throwing + Agility attack, with the batter rolling his Reaction and, if applicable, Body + Armor to resist damage. (Damage from a baseball is [STR/2]P.)
The Swing: A batter may choose to swing or not to swing; in either case, whether the pitch would have been a ball or a strike is not revealed to him until he chooses. If he does choose to swing, he rolls Reaction + Clubs as an opposed test against the Throwing + Agility roll the pitcher has made. If his roll is exactly equal to the pitcher's, he hits a foul ball out of play; if he misses, he gets a swinging strike; if his roll is higher, it's a solid hit. A glitch in any case means his bat breaks; a critical glitch means a foul pop-up. If the batter hits, and the pitch would have been a ball, he may instead choose to "check his swing;" in that case, a ball will be called (assuming the umpire makes the right call; see below).
The Call: In the event that the batter doesn't swing, and the scatter test was either negative or above 1, the umpire makes the correct call. If the scatter test was 0 or 1, or in any case where the batter checks his swing, the umpire rolls Perception + Intuition. There is no threshold for success, but in the event of a glitch (including a critical glitch) the umpire makes the wrong call -- a ball is a strike or a strike is a ball.
The Set: Pitching, in general, is very similar to an attack with a grenade; this includes the fact that a pitcher make Take Aim for as long as he likes prior to his pitch. (Limited, of course, by both the Take Aim restrictions in SR4A and the "delay of game" restrictions in baseball.)
The Windup: The pitch itself is a Throwing + Agility roll, modified by a range penalty appropriate to the pitcher's Strength. A pitcher may take a full windup if he so wishes. (In baseball, this mostly happens on a 3-2 pitch or when the bases are empty.) If he does, he gains a +1 dice pool modifier to the roll; however, the batter also gains a +1 modifier to his roll, as he might have seen some cue indicating what pitch is coming.
The Throw: The Throwing + Agility roll is resolved as if it were a grenade attack (scatter 1d6) against a Reaction roll of 0 hits. However, if the scatter minus net hits is a positive number (0 is not a positive number in this case) the pitch is out of the strike zone and is a ball. If the pitcher glitches, the catcher must make a Reaction + Agility check with a threshold equal to the net hits of the pitch; on a failure, the ball gets by him. (Scored as a wild pitch if the pitch would have been a ball, or a passed ball if it would have been a strike.)
On a critical glitch, roll the Throwing + Agility roll again, and subtract successes from scatter. If this roll indicates a strike, the pitcher has pitched an "easy one right down the middle" and the batter gets a +4 bonus to his hitting roll. This bonus may bring his dice pool above the normal maximum of 20 or Attribute + Skill. If the roll indicates a ball, the pitch is heading right for the batter. Resolve this as a normal Throwing + Agility attack, with the batter rolling his Reaction and, if applicable, Body + Armor to resist damage. (Damage from a baseball is [STR/2]P.)
The Swing: A batter may choose to swing or not to swing; in either case, whether the pitch would have been a ball or a strike is not revealed to him until he chooses. If he does choose to swing, he rolls Reaction + Clubs as an opposed test against the Throwing + Agility roll the pitcher has made. If his roll is exactly equal to the pitcher's, he hits a foul ball out of play; if he misses, he gets a swinging strike; if his roll is higher, it's a solid hit. A glitch in any case means his bat breaks; a critical glitch means a foul pop-up. If the batter hits, and the pitch would have been a ball, he may instead choose to "check his swing;" in that case, a ball will be called (assuming the umpire makes the right call; see below).
The Call: In the event that the batter doesn't swing, and the scatter test was either negative or above 1, the umpire makes the correct call. If the scatter test was 0 or 1, or in any case where the batter checks his swing, the umpire rolls Perception + Intuition. There is no threshold for success, but in the event of a glitch (including a critical glitch) the umpire makes the wrong call -- a ball is a strike or a strike is a ball.
Just a quick idea here to add to The Swing part, you could give him a Judge Intentions test with some pre-determined threshold, but then have him take a minus or two if he decides to sing for taking the extra concentration to trying to see where the ball is going to go.
QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Apr 27 2009, 08:07 PM)
In any of the Shadowrun canon, has it been indicated if the Cubs have won a world series? I guess the whole Bug City thing would throw a kink in that, but one would presume that the Cubs continued playing elsewhere during all that snafu.
I haven't gotten ahold of SotA 2063 or 2064 yet, but the only info on WS winners I can find is above.
QUOTE (Shadowfox @ Apr 27 2009, 09:03 PM)
Just a quick idea here to add to The Swing part, you could give him a Judge Intentions test with some pre-determined threshold, but then have him take a minus or two if he decides to sing for taking the extra concentration to trying to see where the ball is going to go.
Ooh, Judge Intentions! That's awesome, I forgot about it! So let's say that the batter can make a Judge Intentions roll on the pitcher, and the full windup gives him a bonus to that instead.
Wait a second, Judge Intentions is JUST what I needed for pickoffs! The catcher can Judge Intentions the runners, and the Runners can Judge Intentions the pitcher when the pitcher sets!
...You know what bothers me? A d10 would be a PERFECT way to determine who the hit goes to.
tread jack warning, but i have to post this:
when i first read the title, i was thinking of that nuclear football
when i first read the title, i was thinking of that nuclear football
SotA 2063
2062 (October): Mike Dutton of the Chicago White Sox is discovered to be an adept.
2062: Denver Ghosts become the newest team in the Central Division.
SotA 2064
2063 (October): A bombing at a playoff game between Texas Lone Stars and San Diego Jaguars results in both teams refusing to continue.
2063 (October): The Boston Red Sox win the World Series.
As for 2070 (2072) it is tough to determine where things stand due to various missing pieces in the whole overview of teams and associated cities. We could make a bunch of assumptions, thus creating fan made leagues, based on what we do know from the various past and present sources. I have spare time and wouldn't mind lending a hand in working on this alongside you and possibly anyone else that is interested. If enough is worked out perhaps a pdf covering the subject could be created.
2062 (October): Mike Dutton of the Chicago White Sox is discovered to be an adept.
2062: Denver Ghosts become the newest team in the Central Division.
SotA 2064
2063 (October): A bombing at a playoff game between Texas Lone Stars and San Diego Jaguars results in both teams refusing to continue.
2063 (October): The Boston Red Sox win the World Series.
As for 2070 (2072) it is tough to determine where things stand due to various missing pieces in the whole overview of teams and associated cities. We could make a bunch of assumptions, thus creating fan made leagues, based on what we do know from the various past and present sources. I have spare time and wouldn't mind lending a hand in working on this alongside you and possibly anyone else that is interested. If enough is worked out perhaps a pdf covering the subject could be created.
Damn, an Adept appearing on a team during the playoffs? That must have been a heck of a deal.
I'd totally be up for doing it, if for no other reason than it combines two of my favorite things. Let me work up a new version of the first post based on what I found in Shadowbeat and what you've got there (is that really all from SotA?).
I'd totally be up for doing it, if for no other reason than it combines two of my favorite things. Let me work up a new version of the first post based on what I found in Shadowbeat and what you've got there (is that really all from SotA?).
QUOTE (Shadowbeat)
America's pastime made it mostly through the 21st century with only a few, teeny changes: cybered players, the collapse of the old league structure, and a three-team playoff in the World Series. And making things even more interesting, the traditionalists in North American baseball are under increasing pressure from the zaibatsu to open the World Series to competition with Japanese teams. But it's still basically the same old ball game.
Even after things fell apart and the old U.S. broke up, the governments and big corps agreed to keep baseball going. That was the beginning of the North American League (NAL). The North American League championship is still called the World Series, but the order of play has changed to fit a three-conference structure. The team at the top of each conference at the end of the regular season wins the divisional pennant and goes on to play in the World Series. Two of the three regional champion teams are chosen at random to play the first game of the series. The winner of that game plays against the third championship team. The loser of the second game plays the loser of the first game, and the loser of that game is out. The two remaining teams play each other for two out of three wins.
Most baseball teams are based in the UCAS, CAS, or CFS. But just because Mexico turned into Aztlan and joined the NAN, its people didn't stop loving baseball, and the San Diego Jaguars prove it. Besides, a hot baseball team run from San Diego, a former U.S. city, lets the Azteks sneer at the anglos. Beating them at their own game, the Azzies' favorite pastime. The Miami Sharks tap Into a lot of the Cuban and South American talent that used to end up on the U.S. teams in the old days. Now a talented Caribbean League player can stay in his own country and still play pro ball.
Even after things fell apart and the old U.S. broke up, the governments and big corps agreed to keep baseball going. That was the beginning of the North American League (NAL). The North American League championship is still called the World Series, but the order of play has changed to fit a three-conference structure. The team at the top of each conference at the end of the regular season wins the divisional pennant and goes on to play in the World Series. Two of the three regional champion teams are chosen at random to play the first game of the series. The winner of that game plays against the third championship team. The loser of the second game plays the loser of the first game, and the loser of that game is out. The two remaining teams play each other for two out of three wins.
Most baseball teams are based in the UCAS, CAS, or CFS. But just because Mexico turned into Aztlan and joined the NAN, its people didn't stop loving baseball, and the San Diego Jaguars prove it. Besides, a hot baseball team run from San Diego, a former U.S. city, lets the Azteks sneer at the anglos. Beating them at their own game, the Azzies' favorite pastime. The Miami Sharks tap Into a lot of the Cuban and South American talent that used to end up on the U.S. teams in the old days. Now a talented Caribbean League player can stay in his own country and still play pro ball.
Timeline
2013
The Yankees win the World Series. It will be the last time until at least 2066.
2031
The Seattle Mariners win the World Series.
2032
For the first time, cyberware is legal in baseball. Players in AAA and major-league play are allowed 3 Essence points' worth of 'ware.
2038
Judy Hofsted, baseball's first woman, signs with the Tigers.
2042
Harry "Ironjaw" Bartlett, in his sixth year with the Los Angeles Dodgers, goblinizes into an ork.
2043
The Dodgers play in the World All-Star exhibition against the Yomiuri Giants. Bartlett pitches in the game, causing an uproar in the Japanese media.
2046
The Portland Lords are established by the Hemlad Cartel of Tir Taimgire. Despite receiving much derision for fielding an almost entirely elven team in satin uniforms, the Lords silence their critics by pitching a 5-0 shutout against the Dodgers in their first game.
2048
The Portland Lords win the Coastal Pennant.
Ironjaw Bartlett retires with a career strikeout total of 5,301 -- beating Nolan Ryan's long-standing record by two.
2049
"Lock-on" Lorenzo Hayes, left fielder for the Yankees, breaks the career home run record. The Yankees do not win the World Series.
2050
Hayes brings his career HR total to 847 and his career hits to 4,195. The Yankees still do not win the World Series.
Circa 2054
Marcus Garvey Park in Manhattan had a Little League field.
2062
The Denver Ghosts become the newest team in the Central Division, going 65-96 in their first season. (Indicating that 161 games is, more or less, a full season.)
July: Mike Dutton of the Chicago White Sox is discovered to be an adept. According to him, the team was aware when they hired him, causing a scandal.
2063
The Boston Red Sox, Texas Lone Stars, and San Diego Jaguars win their divisions. However, both the Jaguars and the Lone Stars refuse to continue in the three-team playoffs due to a bomb being set off during their game, causing the World Series that year to go to the Red Sox by default.
2065
The last canonically confirmed World Series is held. The Manhattan Yankees do not win it.
2066
Boston's home field is Novatech New Fenway, in which there stood a wall called the Green Monster.
The Yankees and Sox play a game which is dubbed "the Boston Massacre" by the sixth inning. Before the inning was over, the score was 28-3 Boston; the Yankees pitcher, "Tyrone Magnusson, had melted down in the first inning and the manager had left him out on the mound out of spite."
A counterfeit 1906 World Series ring was known to be in the possession of Miles Lanier. (There were no 1906 World Series rings; the first rings were issued in 1932. The 1906 White Sox were, in all likelihood, given diamond-studded watch fobs.)
2069
The Hanshin Tigers are bought by the Korean corp Eastern Tiger, but the Yakult Swallows beat them badly. The Tigers were immediately "itching for a rematch next season."
2070
"Fairly recently," cyberlimbs optimized for baseball players hit the open market.
The Yomiuri Giants are still around. Also, the season of their league (possibly including pre-season training games) lasts from March to October.
As of 2072
Some baseball leagues are still human-only.
AAA division baseball still exists.
The Manhattan Yankees are owned by NYPD, Inc. Renraku owns the New York Mets.
Baseball has a non-Augmented division, to which the Mets belong.
Conjecture
--Fenway Park is no more, though Novatech rebuilt as accurate a replica as they could.
--Cyberware still abides by the same restrictions that it did in earlier years.
--Unlike in the past, adepts are allowed, at least in the augmented conferences. (Note Street Magic's off-hand reference to athletic leagues that allow cyber allowing Adepts.)
--Teams are sexually as well as racially integrated now.
--The Albuquerque Isotopes are still active. (Note Smiley's hat in On The Run.)
--The Yomiuri Giants have their home field in Bunkyo.
--Japan's baseball leagues are still human-only.
List of Active NAL Teams as of 2051
Eastern Division
Atlanta Braves (CAS)
Baltimore Orioles (UCAS)
Boston Red Sox (UCAS), confirmed as of 2066
FDC Senators (UCAS)
Manhattan Yankees (UCAS), confirmed as of 2072
Montreal Expos (Quebec)
Philadelphia Phillies (UCAS)
Richmond Generals (CAS)
Central Division
Chicago White Sox (UCAS), confirmed as of 2062
Cincinnati Whites (UCAS)
Detroit Tigers (UCAS)
Kansas City Royals (UCAS)
Miami Sharks (CL)
St. Louis Cardinals (CAS)
Houston Astros (CAS)
Texas Lone Stars (CAS), confirmed as of 2063
Denver Ghosts (???), new as of 2062
Coastal Division
California Angels (CFS)
Los Angeles Dodgers (CFS)
Portland Lords (TT)
Sacramento Padres (CFS)
San Francisco Giants (CFS)
San Francisco Whales (CFS)
Seattle Mariners (UCAS)
San Diego Jaguars (AZT), confirmed as of 2062
Non-Augmented Division
New York Mets (UCAS), confirmed as of 2072
Did you plan on including Smartball technology in your rules?
The "range" that you set for bats can determine the threshold for how successful the hit is; add in factors like hitting along the ground versus in the air - I had a set of rules for baseball somewhere many moons ago - most probably on a small piece of paper in a box somewhere...
The "range" that you set for bats can determine the threshold for how successful the hit is; add in factors like hitting along the ground versus in the air - I had a set of rules for baseball somewhere many moons ago - most probably on a small piece of paper in a box somewhere...
I have some ideas about rules running in my head at the moment. Perhaps we should move any work over to the Community Projects forum?
QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Apr 27 2009, 08:07 PM)
In any of the Shadowrun canon, has it been indicated if the Cubs have won a world series? I guess the whole Bug City thing would throw a kink in that, but one would presume that the Cubs continued playing elsewhere during all that snafu.
Sorry, just saw this. To the extreme delight of my girlfriend, a huge White Sox fan, the Cubs are apparently no more as of 2051.
QUOTE (Necro Sanct @ Apr 28 2009, 03:32 AM)
I have some ideas about rules running in my head at the moment. Perhaps we should move any work over to the Community Projects forum?
Link!
Well, tell your girlfriend that she should just leave me in my misery. If Shadowrun is correct in predicting the future, it appears that my cubbies may NEVER win another world series. Ah well, there's always next year.
The Seattle Sourcebook (1990) states that the Seattle Mariners won the last "un-chipped" world series; but it doesn't give a date.
QUOTE (Mythtify @ Apr 28 2009, 07:54 PM)
The Seattle Sourcebook (1990) states that the Seattle Mariners won the last "un-chipped" world series; but it doesn't give a date.
Assuming the date of 'ware being added to baseball refers to the 2032 season, that would be 2031. Added.
I thought it was the Seattle Seadogs. 
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 29 2009, 07:14 AM)
I thought it was the Seattle Seadogs.
It's canonically the Mariners as of 2051. Do you have a source that names the Seadogs, though? We may have missed something.
The Seadogs is what the fans call the Mariners. In the Wolf and Raven novel, I believe, and maybe more places. They were called that because of a long cold streak.
QUOTE (Angelone @ Apr 29 2009, 02:42 PM)
The Seadogs is what the fans call the Mariners. In the Wolf and Raven novel, I believe, and maybe more places. They were called that because of a long cold streak.
It's from "Wolf and Raven", yes.
What happened was that they had a cold streak, and someone had the idea to put out a lot of t-shirts and such with the "Seadogs" name on it, and a parody of the team's logo. (Enough to get around copyright.).
Apparently it sells well even when the team is doing good.
I included a Seattle Seadogs Gym Bag in one of my stories. See if you can find it.
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