Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Increase Reflexes Spell
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Dakka Dakka
Does the mage get the extra passes in the same round as the casting or in the next?
Caadium
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 30 2009, 02:02 AM) *
Does the mage get the extra passes in the same round as the casting or in the next?


The next round.

QUOTE
If a character’s Initiative attribute changes, immediately apply the difference as a positive or negative modifier to the character’s Initiative Score. This new Initiative Score applies for any subsequent actions in that Combat Turn. So a character with Initiative 8 and an Initiative Score 11 who activates an implant that changes his Initiative to 10 (+2) immediately raises his Initiative Score to 13 (11 + 2).

If the number of Initiative Passes available to a character increases, that character does not gain the extra Initiative Passes for that turn. So a magician with 1 IP who takes his first action to astrally project (+2 IP) does not gain any extra actions that turn, but he will have 3 IP for the next turn.

If the number of Initiative Passes available to a character decreases, then that character immediately loses any extra Initiative Passes for that turn he might have had. So when that same magician returns to his body, he immediately loses 2 IPs on that turn.
Dakka Dakka
Could you tell me where this quote is from?
Psikerlord
that's why you put it in your sustaining focus, so you're ready from the get go
Machiavelli
Yeah, if it is an option having this focus always activated. If not (and if I´m informed correct) you have to speak the spell everytime the focus is deactivated and this wouldn´t be an advantage.
Dakka Dakka
40000¥ and 8 Karma have to be earned first. Yes, the spell has to be recast everytime the focus was deactivated.
Larsine
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 30 2009, 01:14 PM) *
Could you tell me where this quote is from?

The quote is from SR4A page 145 "Switching Initiative"

Lars
Caadium
Sorry, I meant to include that.
Windling
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 30 2009, 06:50 AM) *
Yeah, if it is an option having this focus always activated.


Keep in mind if you *always* have the focus active you will develop focus addiction rather quickly. The rules for focus addiction can be harsh, but for many GM's the difference between slapping a player with the addiction quality or not is whether the player is using a focus as a tool vs a crutch. Having it always on is a sure fire way to at some point in the game start refering to your focus as "my precious".


QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 30 2009, 06:50 AM) *
If not (and if I´m informed correct) you have to speak the spell everytime the focus is deactivated and this wouldn´t be an advantage.


The advantage is that a normal mage takes a penalty to all actions while substaining the spell. (-2 to all die pools I believe.) A character with a sustaining focus for that type of spell can substain it indefinatly without the penalty. Having a die pool modifier to all actions in combat is not fun, but that's the counterside of getting extra IP's. The focus helps you enjoy the benefits of both w/o the disadvantages under certain conditions.
Mordinvan
QUOTE (Windling @ Apr 30 2009, 11:42 AM) *
Keep in mind if you *always* have the focus active you will develop focus addiction rather quickly.


I thought it was an optional rule, and so not used by a great many groups, including missions I think.
KCKitsune
Also having the focus activated lights you up in the Astral, and makes it harder to pass through Mana Barriers. If you want reliable Reflex Augmentation without too big of a hit to Essence, then go with Synaptic Booster level 1. Sure only gives 2 IP, but for a Mage... grinbig.gif
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Apr 30 2009, 09:57 PM) *
I thought it was an optional rule, and so not used by a great many groups, including missions I think.


not only is it optional but the only guidelines I can find on when to have people make addiction tests were in digital grimoire and they say when you keep up x2 your magic in force of focuses. A rating 4 spell lock probably does not qualify for that. Now a GM can say not just excessive but long term low level use can make you an addict, but a GM can also say 9 invisible, stealthed(12 successes), concealed(-12 dice) snipers with a Barrett made a called shots to avoid armor and got 14 successes each on you. IOW DMs can say lots of things what fits for one game doesn't fit for another.

A better way to put focus addition is if you have a focus always active your DM may decide to have you make addiction checks occasionally.
Dhaise
It's not really listed as 'optional', the mechanic is just detailed only in a PDF download. In the core books, it's just another addiction leaving it as a point dump during creation and encouragement to roleplay issues later.
Windling
QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Apr 30 2009, 08:57 PM) *
I thought it was an optional rule, and so not used by a great many groups, including missions I think.


I was talking in terms of the core books addiction rules and how many GM's would respond. (Although there are a set of specific ones that are optional.) If I said I always took drugs before, after, and during missions; it's only a matter of time before that problem hits me one way or another. Same with focus addiction. Some GM's ignore it b/c they overlook it as a tool and don't care how it gets used, but many will scratch their heads when they realize you're always using the focus.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Windling @ May 1 2009, 01:11 AM) *
Some GM's ignore it b/c they overlook it as a tool and don't care how it gets used, but many will scratch their heads when they realize you're always using the focus.


Our GM encourages buff casting in the morning (sustained by a focus) so that the mage is combat ready at any time. It's one of the things he tells new magician players.
Psikerlord
My thinking is along the lines of Draco18, you cast it in the morning and off you go. If you hit a ward or something the focus deactivates and you recast if you are expecting trouble (suffering drain again). I may have played too much SR2, but doesn't just about every character walk around with at least a bit of initiative boost..? (whether cyber, bio or magic)? Come to think of it - are there still rules about accidentally "going off" with enhanced reflexes active? (if so, where are they?) That would also be a significant downside to using constant intitiative boosts.
Dakka Dakka
Besides the ward problem, walking around with a sustained spell, directly designates you as trouble for anyone who is astrally perceiving. Either you are a mage yourself or you benefit from a mage. Not exactly the best solution for someone who tires to stay below the radar.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 2 2009, 07:53 AM) *
Besides the ward problem, walking around with a sustained spell, directly designates you as trouble for anyone who is astrally perceiving. Either you are a mage yourself or you benefit from a mage. Not exactly the best solution for someone who tires to stay below the radar.


OTOH, you're probably already breaking an entering.
Runners will likely leave their stuff off on "normal days" (aka "down time") but have it "always active" on run days.
Mordinvan
QUOTE (Windling @ Apr 30 2009, 11:11 PM) *
I was talking in terms of the core books addiction rules and how many GM's would respond. (Although there are a set of specific ones that are optional.) If I said I always took drugs before, after, and during missions; it's only a matter of time before that problem hits me one way or another. Same with focus addiction. Some GM's ignore it b/c they overlook it as a tool and don't care how it gets used, but many will scratch their heads when they realize you're always using the focus.


I fail to see how a focus is ever anything more then a tool. They are very expensive tools, but there is nothing in their description indication they contain a pleasure fulfillment mechanism needed to cause an addiction. I can't see how they could engage in the dopemenergic pathways and actually cause one. Sustaining foci least of all as its not like they can even mitigate damage the caster is going to take. They're the magical shopping carts of the SR world, holding the 'weight' of a spell so you don't have too.
Windling
QUOTE (Mordinvan @ May 2 2009, 11:55 AM) *
I fail to see how a focus is ever anything more then a tool. They are very expensive tools, but there is nothing in their description indication they contain a pleasure fulfillment mechanism needed to cause an addiction. I can't see how they could engage in the dopemenergic pathways and actually cause one. Sustaining foci least of all as its not like they can even mitigate damage the caster is going to take. They're the magical shopping carts of the SR world, holding the 'weight' of a spell so you don't have too.


If everyone else plays it differently, then cool for you guys. It's supposed to a game and fun after all!

As for Foci always being a tool; the point I was trying to make was that any tool can become a crutch. It's all about how it's used. A really good example is a calculator. It's "just a tool". How many people will grab for a calculator to do really simple math; or feel uncomfortable, ackward, or unsure of themseves if they aren't using the calculator? Answer: only the people who are so used to using the calculator and not their headspace to do math. Use the calculator long enough and you have a dependency on wanting to use it and a negative reaction when you can't. There doesn't have to be a uforic high to become dependant on something, you just have to have a positive stimulus (easy, reliable, accurate) conditioned and it can become a crutch.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Mordinvan @ May 2 2009, 09:55 AM) *
I fail to see how a focus is ever anything more then a tool. They are very expensive tools, but there is nothing in their description indication they contain a pleasure fulfillment mechanism needed to cause an addiction.

QUOTE (Street Magic p.26-27)
A magician or adept who relies too much on
the power granted by foci eventually forms a mental and spiritual
dependence on them, even to the point of becoming magically
impotent when they are dormant or missing.

QUOTE (Digital Grimoire p.8 )
When a magician relies too heavily on foci, they become
a €œcrutch€? that begins to undermine the magician€™s abilities.
Prolonged (ab)use of more foci than the magician can safely
handle can burn out their Talent.
Focus Addiction (p. 26, Street Magic) uses the Addiction
rules (See Addiction quality, p. 80 and Substance Abuse p. 247,
Shadowrun, Fourth Edition). The gamemaster can call for a Focus
Addiction Test at any time she feels the player is abusing foci; a
good guideline is whenever a character has a total Force of active
foci in excess of twice their Magic attribute. When a character fails
the Focus Addiction Test, she gains the Focus Addiction Negative
Quality (See Focus Addiction, p. 26€“27, Street Magic). Treat focus
addiction as a Mental addiction with a Threshold of 2.


Neither are 'Optional' rules.
Mordinvan
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 2 2009, 01:16 PM) *
Neither are 'Optional' rules.


Ah the reference to the negative quality?
Given the rules for acquiring said addiction don't actually occur in a hard copy book... ya their optional.

Also given even according to them I could walk around with a sustained reflexes spell on 24/7 with no problems so long as I don't have twice my magic in foci active at one point in time...
HappyDaze
QUOTE
Neither are 'Optional' rules.

Isn't Digital Grimoire intended to be 100% optional rules?
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 2 2009, 03:16 PM) *
Neither are 'Optional' rules.


I'm not sure how the fluff text in a negative disadvantage makes acquiring a focus addiction in play core non optional rules. They are distinctly optional in that its totally up to the GM if he wants to do it, if he thinks a given use is abusive, if he thinks the abusive nature is enough to create an addiction etc. Getting addicted to something is a wonky thing, some people can drink like fishes and never get addicted others get addicted quickly.

The how and when you want to have a person make an addiction test is totally up to the GMs discretion making it basically an optional rule. If there was a rule that said every 3 times you use a focus you must make an addiction test, then it would not be optional.

Hey do it when and if you want, and if you do here are some guidelines=optional
This happens when you do X=non optional.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012