Note: I'm new to the forums so go easy.

I'm currently making a Rigger, and these forums have answered almost all my questions. One question has eluded me since picking up the SR4 rulebook.

What is accually "larger" than a LMG? Obviously MMGs and HMGs would be larger, but where do grenade, rocket, and missile launchers fall?

Since no weights are given I do my normal and fall back on RL, given that even simi-auto grenade launchers are often smaller/light than LMGs.

Example: Milkor MGL (6 shot 40mm simi-automatic grenade luncher) = 11.68lb vs. M249 squad automatic weapon (LMG) = 17lb

Also, given that sholder fired rocket/ launchers can be lighter than LMGs.

Example: LRAC F1 (reusable rocket launcher) = 16.1lb vs. FN Minimi (LMG) = 18lb

Further complicating things is the fact that some "Heavy Sniper Rifles" like those that the Barret Model 121 from Arsenal is modeled after weigh much more than LMGs

Example: Barrett M82 (.50 caliber sniper rifle) = 30lb vs. M60 (1950s LMG) = 23.15lb

The cake topper for me is the fluff text from the Nimrod Aerial Combat Drone listing a Multi rocket launcher that does not even exist (unless you count the Gleche Hail Barrage Rocket Launcher from p103 "Main Guns")

Can anyone make any more sense out of this?

Signed
My head hurts

Just wanted to be the first to say.... "Welcome to the Forums"
AS fo any answers, I have the smae questions ocassionally... Generally just use common sense

Im going to reference Rigger 3r for this, as Sr4 (yet again) fails to cover something. Well, until they release a rigger book.

Assuming an LMG has a weapon value of 1.5 (weapon value is an arbitrary number set in the rigger 3 book).

SMG, rifle and grenade launchers (aka pretty much every thing that does not fall under the Heavy Weapon skill) are all WV of 1
MMG, HMG, Missile/rocket launchers, harpoon guns, are all WV of 2
Big Miniguns are 2.5 <- ignore this, as they are rolled in with the machine guns.
Assault Cannons, Autocannons, and vehicle scale lasers are WV 3

Everything beyond that is just big and will make people go splat.

So translation.
Anything you can use the Heavy Weapon skill for, with the exception of an LMG (including the GE Vindicator minigun, as its listed as an LMG) and a grenade launcher, is too big to fit on what Sr4 calls a 'weapon mount'. More details are listed in Arsenal on page 147.

Your Nimrod drone will (odds are) be using the Mitsubishi Yakusoku MRL, from the main book.

But Welcome to Dumpshock. Here is your ally spirit manifested as a dikoted Ares Viper silver gun, and yes, you can have sex with it. And if anyone else remembers all this, you have been here too long.

Thanks Lindt for the excellent reply.

I started out with SR4 so I missed some of the information that is intuitive for those having read other editions.

The fluff on the Nimrod still bugs me since we can’t mount a missile launcher on either of its 2 standard fixed mounts, but I’ll simply mount a grenade launcher there.

Once question that I forgot to include in the original post was about mounting multi barreled weapons.

Namely the Ares Alpha and later the XM30.

Are these legal and do they take up more than one mount slot?

Thanks again for the reply
Signed
Head hurts less now

Guns with underbarrel weapons may be installed into weapon mounts and don't take extra slots. However they still have their normal ammunition capacities unless the ammunition is beltfed.

If the drone should be able to use all of the weapon's options more than one targeting software is needed.

I would say that a grenade launcher would be "lighter" then an LMG while the missle/rocket launcher, MMG, HMG, and autocannons would be "larger". My main reasoning for this is that a missle/rocket launcher take up more room to load (especially vehicle mounted versions). I would also class laser weapons as larger then an LMG for the batter requirements.

I'd say the redline and the MP Laser are smaller than LMGs as per their descriptions, but whether they can be fuelled by the vehicle is up to the GM.


Also the rules about Lasers are pretty stupid. A beam strong enough to cut through steel plates is significantly slowed/redirected by water drops or dust

If it clearly does more damage than an LMG, then it probably is larger than one.

GLs are less than a LMG. That much I know as they can fit under a AR and such.

And a single pineapple grenade is even smaller. Most weapons have a size in their description.

Ares Redline: Pistol -> normal mount
Ares MP Laser 3: Assault rifle -> normal mount
Ares Heavy MP Laser: cannot be used without proper support -> reinforced mount

For all others I'd say if it is a man portable weapon that can be used without support devices it fits a normal mount. So flamethrowers and and rocket launchers schould fit into normal mounts.

I agree with you on the mounts unless the rigger plans to incorporate the MP laser into the vehicle's power supply then I would say you would need the reinforced mount (but you wouldn't need to use power packs anymore). The Redline would always use power packs though.

As for rocket launchers I would say it needs a reinforced mount just for the ammo bin. If there is someone loading the weapon then you can use a normal mount.

Is there a rule telling us how much power a vehicle can generate? Why wouldn't you let the Redline be connected to the vehicles power supply? It needs the least amount of power of the three Lasers and as all Lasers can use an external source per RAW.

I's say the mounted launchers get their usual ammo capacity (1- and each extra bin adds that amount. No need for extra heavy mounts.

Let us not forget that there is a Heavy Mount available for vehicles that will let you mount a Main Gun equivalent weapon...

While I dont have the books on me, I believe that you could pull both the normal mounts and install a reinforced one in its place. Of course this isnt something you do in the ally, but I havent read the modification rules for Sr4, never mind remember them.

The multi-weapon thing has always been a sticky bit, as IIRC any attachments are not available to use on mounted weapons, but as they arnt 'attached' rather they are intrigral... in reality, id allow it. The Alphas GL isnt that big as far as capacity, and its not going to break the game.

No, laser weapons can not draw from the normal power supply of a vehicle. Its a matter of... voltage? Wattage? Amps? What ever the weapon uses, it uses a LOT more of them then the alternator can supply, though Id allow in-line recharging of the weapon (it recharges it at the normal rate) while its mounted. Besides, then you have that DC/AC conversion, and it gets all messy.

All the quoting from sr3 was pretty unnecessary, as while I was doing it I found the sr4 rules for mounting heavy weapons. Again, they are in Arsenal. And they are strangely clear.

Yes you could. But unfortunately according to RAW removing stock modifications does not free up modification slots. So you only have the regular 4 slots at least two of which are used by the reinforced mount.

Where did you get that? Neither the BBB nor Arsenal speak about accessories not working.

That's the same way I'd rule it. However then there is the question, which battery pack may be used.

Each weapon specifies how many power clips it supports. Any energy-based weapon can be hooked up to a power satchel or power pack. It's a universal connector.

Eh, didnt read that part. But then yes, the fluff is full of shit and should be dragged out into the street and shot.

Really? I must be having Sr3 flashback or something. If there isnt a restriction on accessories, then by ALL means, its a valid and excellent choice. As would attaching an under barrel grenade launcher to an LMG and getting more bang for your buck, so to speak.

Depends on how heavy the pack is. You might get away with it on van (where 10kg is fairly ignorable), but not on a microlight drone.

I'd love to see you put a weapon mount on a microdrone when the smallest drone that can fit one is medium. Anything that can handle having a machine gun bolted on can easily swing the circuitry for at least a power satchel (consider that you don't need most of the framework that goes into making one hands-free & man-portable, and that it would go where the 250-round belt would be stored).

Quite frankly... pretty much any man portable weapon I'd say should qualify for a weapon mount on a normal size vehicle. As drones get smaller apply your best judgement... (at what size drone should only single handed weapons like a SMG be allowed... what about even smaller like a MP/pistol). You should probably use the weapons concealability modifier as a guideline for this.

I'd have nothing against a rigger who wanted a HMG fitted somehow on his bulldog. Where else is he going to fit it? (HMMWVV's do it, 2.5 ton trucks do it... they put pintles on the back of pickup trucks in the 3rd world w/ em).

The game has heavier weapon mounts for some truly brutal heavy vehicular weapons like main tank or APC guns. Which leaves a lot of the man portable guns in sort of a no-mans land.

The exception to the rule I'd go with is for drones... as the size of the drone goes down... I'd start enforcing a size limitation. Although, at some point those weapons are only suitable if modify them w/ dual fed 100rd ammo drums (4mod spaces).

Another thing I've heard of is people creating a 'rigger modification' for weapons. EG: for ~3-4 mod spaces make it belt fed, but unusable except in a drone weapons mount.