What are the ones you like best? Show us!

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Here is one I stumbled today reading Corp Enclaves... Neo-Tokyo, pg 91:

"If Sorayama or Fujimi-bou is where to go to get some augmentation
done right, then the Bleeds are where you go to get augmentation
done cheap. It’s the poorest section of Chiba, occupied by all the
doctors that screwed up.

The Bleeds is, to put it mildly, fucking scary even for us natives.
You don’t want to go alone, and you always go armed. I swear
I’ve taken a friend in to get a new kidney and the doctor excused
himself, left for a couple minutes, and came back blood-spattered
and with a nice warm kidney bagged in his hand. After he took
a minute to catch his breath, he asked whether or not my friend
needed to be sedated for the operation."

Pretty much the entire "Beyond the Pale" section in Cybertechnology is the best shadowtalk ever.

I get the shivers every time I read that.

Is there any way to buy Cybertechnology as a .pdf still?

My favorite was the shadowtalk right throughout the Aztlan sourcebook.

To this day I get shivers reading the chatter between all the IEs and the Big D. Especially when they realise what the teocali's really are, how they are empowered and the dragon with the black aura....

More recently, I like the quote by Man-Of-Many-Names explaining it was he that led Ares to the Chicago hives (Feral Cities).

- J.

For funny and for freaky, crack Augmentation.

The Tir tangire sb had a great description of a resturant that served illusory food and one of the posters had a simple "elves chummer, it's elves" explanation that cracks me up every time I read it. It's the written word equivilent of the comic timing pause between 'roast duck' and 'mango salsa'.

The cybertechnology , neo anarchists guide to real life and renraku shutdown shadowtalk were great. And I've always gotten a kick out of the Shadowtalk from the lofwyr/art dankwalther sections in threats/threats 2.

All from Shadowtech, and exactly why shadowtalk needs to return.

Shadowtalk isn't gone...

It's nothing like it was in the previous books.

How so? Could you be more specific?

Previous books had entire pages of Shadowtalk, with considerable back-and-forth. Entire conversations.

As for the original question, I have two (possibly mis-remembered) quotes from Paranormal Animals of Europe that will hopefully bring back fond memories for those who remember them.

Huh? Emergence is made up of entire chapters of Shadowtalk conversation.

My favorite bits from the past were the sidebar conversations amongst the planet's secret mystic masters in Aztlan Sourcebook. Not only was it a unique break from the typical, occasionally tiresome "serious talk/serious talk/insert something witty" RunnerBanter of other fluff pieces it hinted at the strange and powerful things to come outside the immediate material.

I think the issue is with shadowtalk from how i read the other posters views is, The gallows humor or the lack there of, Men and women who do the work and know they are doing the work, know they are damaged goods but still crack a wise about it

a quote I like, page 41 of paranormal animals of north america.

isn't there anything out there that likes people?
--Leslie

granted Dikotana already posted my altime fav shadowtalk post

Nono, I get that, and it's cool, but it was also a giant book filled with background. But for the most part, the newer books do not have the same volume of shadowtalk - but they also have considerably more content.

I remember where each individual gun or critter had a half-page of shadowtalk.

Yeah, I think the criticism is that the rules sourcebooks don't have entire pages of shadowtalk (though they do have entire chapters that are in-character). But I think the design decision is that they'd rather the rules sourcebooks were filled with rules (and denser background material where necessary) and save the pages of banter for non-rules sourcebooks.

Emergence had lots of shadowtalk, including the feud between Clockwork and Netcat. Unwired for being a "rules" book had a lot of in-character stuff. Ever since SR3, I have very much enjoyed the clear delineation between in-game "fluff" and metagame "mechanics" in the sourcebooks (marked by the consistent "Game Information" chapter). Additionally, we should also keep in mind that the "fluff" chapters at the beginning of the "crunch" books like Arsenal, Augmentation, and Unwired are entirely in-character. This aspect (in-character sourcebooks) is, in my mind, the defining factor that makes Shadowrun different from its peers.

Now, if by saying "bring back shadowtalk" people mean "one piece of gear per page with half a page or more of shadowtalk" then, no, I don't miss that. If one simply skips all of the initial chapters of a book like Arsenal or Augmentation that contextualizes the gear into the Sixth World via in-character conversation and goes straight for the "stats" but then complains that there is no shadowtalk in the "stats" then you are sorely missing out, IMO.

I'm starting to think that's what people mean. And I don't miss it either. Street Samurai Catalog and Paranormal Animals of North America were cool back in the day and I don't want to harsh anyone's nostalgia buzz. But that lack of content per page just doesn't fly in today's market.

Even though I remember something fondly (see "vanilla WoW"), doesn't necessarily mean I wish its return. Clearly, I may differ from KCKitsune or Daikotana in that regard.

Well yes, I agree with you, I'm just trying to clarify what I think the criticism is. But I agree with you that the format of Street Samurai Catalog, with its one gun per page and lots of shadowtalk, is a waste of paper.

I do like having a picture for each and every weapon/vehicle/gear. It helped a lot when I was a newbie to SR and had no idea how all my "kewl" gear was supposed to look. On the other hand, there was a LOT of empty space...

I liked Arsenal, as it had more art for the gear, but it didn't have art for EVERY piece of gear. Of course, I am greedy, as that much art would make the book cost a LOT more!!

I disagree. Sure, you could cram ten times as many guns into the same number of pages by getting rid of the artwork and shadowtalk, but how many guns do you actually need before they become entirely redundant? I also second Dreadlord's wish to have artwork for each item; it helps enormously with my sense of immersion in the game.

It's not about cramming ten times as many guns into the same number of pages. It's about using some of those pages for other relevant material.

I do agree there was more of it but some books like Ghost Cartels and Feral Cities did a damn good job I thought. Emergence had too much shadowtalk I felt...

- J.

Didn't Arsenal show pictures of every gun??

What are you after? Shadowtalk? Artwork? Both? There are actual limitations with how much you can fit into a book, let alone how economically feasible it is.

- J.

Such as? The firearms rules are pretty straightforward (IMO), and frankly I feel that any elaboration would simply be complexity for complexity's sake, which is seldom a good idea.

Possibly more rules, but just more of everything else. Arsenal opens with a (in-character) chapter which gives context to weapons in the shadows of the Sixth World: how they are acquired and sold. Also, Arsenal has a lot more than just hand-held guns: there's a whole chapter on guns, drugs, and explosives; then there's the vehicles and vehicle mod rules (which really is what makes a Rigger worth playing, IMO); then it wraps up with some "advanced" stuff like hazardous environments and martial arts. You would be missing out on a lot of stuff if the book were just guns and armor.

I prefer 'shadowtalk' to 'jackpointers' but the 4e presentations are heads and shoulders above the old school.

Huh. When I said "exactly why shadowtalk needs to return," I apparently didn't convey what I meant very well. That's a shining example of old shadowtalk: extended, largely irrelevant, and witty. It reads exactly like a thread on forums (like Dumpshock) turning into a meme and spreading out of control. It's fun stuff.

It also seems to have gone somewhat out of style by SR3. Yes, there was still a mix of crunch and fluff, but it was clear which was which and the fluff tended to be much more focused on relevance.

New rulebooks are cleaner, easier to use, and filled with more delicious, crunchy goodness. Still, when I want to give someone an idea of what Shadowrun feels like I don't hand over the core rulebook. It's easier to pick up the background flavor from skimming the Street Samurai Catalogue or Shadowtech. Or the new fluff books, really.

But I still don't laugh nearly as much at the new banter as I do when reading SR2 material. And nothing is as chilling as Hatchetman's story. Although the "Shutdown!" chapter in Renraku Arcology: Shutdown is pretty nice... (Forced attempt to start quoting again? Yes!)



[sic] on (Intruder) being included on the first disconnect but not the second.

The whole thing is an amazing portrayal of combat without anything remotely resembling combat being explicit.

There's a difference between the two? I don't see it.


I can offer some theories about that:

a) Humor is one of the hardest things to write. And failed attempts at humor make me cringe, especially when it isn't subtle or the author is screaming "Hey, look how funny this is!" (see Dane Cook)
b) SR1 was balls to the wall; let's try anything and steal what we can get away with. Which is funny. Even by Second Edition it was still a relatively new product with an audience that wasn't set in its ways. By Third Edition, there was a solidified "This is what Shadowrun is" concept and writing for it became more about patching in the unexplored cracks than bringing out crazy new concepts. The world grew too fast with the Shadows of... books. And when new takes were introduced, SURGE for example, it was met with scorn. Not because it was a bad idea (which is a common perception) but because it simply didn't go far enough. Gamers are also a conservative lot and any change to the status quo of long-term properties is too upsetting (see Forgotten Realms).
c) It's a lot tougher to introduce humor to cyberpunk today as its been so thoroughly deconstructed as a concept and is also 10-15 years past its shelf life. Snow Crash was the final, humorous testimony to the sub-genre.

I'm all for shadowtalk and do miss some of the metaplot/major players dropping info that may or may not be in upcoming material or answer questions. But I'm firmly in the camp of pics for each item. Not like Street Sami catalog, no need for full page but weapons,gear and vehicles really need to be represented in table top games. My biggest pet peeve with most games is a nice cool stat block with a sentence long description that suffers from having no visual representation. After that for me shadowtalk is just icing on the cake.

We've already had some of that. The "Jackpoint" pages at the beginning of the books have dropped some hints. For instance, we were told that something was going on with TM's holding Geneva hostage before Feral Cities came out. Also the mystery of "what happened to Puck" has been in 2 books now: Unwired and Feral Cities. I'm also watching very closely in the coming books for fallout from Ghost Cartels. The villain organization in that was called Priema Vaga (sp?) which means "First Wave" and the drug was referred to by those villains as "the dream seed." Something is brewing, I know it...

Also, Feral Cities more or less subtlely hints at some plots involving peopl in Kinshasa-Brazzaville and Cairo (my bet on the upcoming Dawn of the Artifacts, but ym guess is as good as yours).

Back on topic :
To me, the best shadowtalk ever. The reason is, this little piece of text actually taught me a lesson in psychology, one that happened to be incredibly useful in real life when dealing with some people I came to meet.

I can see one. The JP crowd are much more professional and don't comment on things they aren't really knowledgeable about- SL was all about guesswork and dropping hints. The Jackpointers stay on message and don't digress. Every old book had a disclaimer about not using fluff as gospel truth, and having contradictory opinions on things made it easier for individual GMs to decide which plot hooks were interesting,and which ones were red herrings or just unreliable information. JP sounds like a bunch of bloggers all commenting on the same news story. JP is a closed network whereas Shadowland was eventually wide open access, meaning you could have a broad variety of people from different walks of life freely interacting- you never knew who was going to show up next to comment. And despite the stable cast of JP, they do not have that fludity of introduction-everyone posted is connected to some other poster before they are introduced. It's not nearly as impactive as Lofwyr just showing up.

That wolfman/bandit exchange was funny because it was used sparingly,fit the tone of the game and sounded like table chatter. The older stuff had a lot of setting information answered exactly from a players perspective- i.e. "Who has Nukes in the 6th world?", whereas the veterans at jackpoint leave that common knowledge stuff at the door. Presumably the flavor and tone are more divded from the rules so as a GM,I can decide if I want a grim Blade Runner tone to my game, or a glassy tokyo pop type energy, but the settings depth and flavor has always been a selling point of the game for me.
It's like the difference between old school punk rock and radio ready metallica for me, neither is 'better' to me then the other, but I know which one makes me think of breaking the rules, and which one makes me think "this is what I can get away with living under a corporate microscope'.

I don't see a huge degree of difference in the shadowtalk to tell you the truth.

Maybe less frequent "epic" chatter like there used to be... but that's about it. Its hard to have hair raising shadowtalk when godlike AIs, blood mages working with the Horrors and IEs aren't the subject of conversation.

- J.

I think "epic" shadowtalk doesn't need IEs and GDs to be done. We have some real prime runners here - the bit in Chicago with Man-of-Many-Names came out fairly well by my estimation.

It was great for giving him some weight, he's been spouting enigmatic crap for nigh on 20 years, a "put up or shut up" moment was long overdue. I'm suprised he got invited into Jackpoint at all considering nobody knew anything about him,or his agenda and his place in most books was to channel yoda style answers while swiping silent bob's schtick.
I'm glad 4th hasn't had such a blatant hard on for some of the big zomgs of previous editions, particularly since some of them (harlequin) overstayed their welcome. But guys like Argent and Spes felt like they were really presenting a take on their respective worlds, and the new voices just don't have that spark of life (yet).

The bit with Man-Of-Many-Names is the only one that readily springs to mind in recent publications, hence the reason I mentiond it.

The chatter re: Puck I felt was too scattered and subtle to be regarded. That said I think it was intended more for the purpose of building suspense more than anything else.

I liked Netcat coming out in Emergence as a Technomancer and Clockwork trying to turn her in... but again, that's more flavorful than epic.

Principally I agree with you. That said, I'm having a hard time recalling other instances of 'epic' apart from the M-o-m-n bit in Feral Cities.

- J.

Well, there hasn't been much. We're still going for a "street" feel, by-and-large.

Perri's revelation of what the otaku can really do in the Denver book.



Those last two lines are what completely sucked me into this mindfuck of a game.

The whole exchange is great, but that is the money quote.

Perri makes an appearance in the anniversary edition of SR4, btw.

There's also a great moment of Fastjack being badass without even trying.



Bash was the "asshole" sysop at the Nexus back then.

"Appearance?" You mean there's a picture of her or what?

EDIT: Nevermind, she's in the fiction "Happy Trails."

Damnit, Malachi, quit looking for fap material in SR4A!

That book made Fastjack. It established his age, and in locking out Nexus sysops--who were supposed to be the baddest motherfuckers on the Matrix--and casually mentioning he could murder one in particular established what would come later.

Before then he was just a major figure in Tom Dowd's books. Findley made him a legend. I miss Findley.

Amen to that Marty. Currently in the process of reading 2XS and hopefully House of the Sun very soon. Shadowplay is one of my favorite SR books and Argent is the man. Run Hard Die Fast chummer.

Yeah, I don't think we've had moments like those in SR4 shadowtalk yet, though not for lack of trying.

I don't think I can contribute meaningfully to this thread, but I will point out two snippets of description that I thought were real gems from RC and Street Magic.

To be fair, that last one is a legacy item from the previous Grimoires.

Fair enough. I'm just not familiar with them. I played one SR3 game and I was a rigger.

SR4? There hasn't been anything like Fastjack's ascension since Denver.