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Ayeohx
I am having a tough time explaining movement to my players; probably because I don't quite understand it myself.

How does a character with only 1 pass dictate his movement throughout the rest of a combat turn?
Can said character stop running on Pass 2 and start walking again?
How about start running again or would that take another free action (that he doesn't have)?
Can the character change his path/direction?

If a character makes a running jump does the distance count as movement? Imagine this scenario, if you would.
There are three passes this turn. In the 1st pass my character runs 6 meters and performs a running jump getting across the 8 meter gap.

So what happens? Does my character travel 11 meters in one pass? Does he get 19 more meters worth of running on the other side or just 8 meters? Does the first phase end with him 2 meters into his jump? So... why not jump everywhere? Go go gadget legs? And no, I wouldn't condone this but I need clarification.
deek
Movement is always a topic for confusion.

The best balance I have come to is dividing all combat turns into four passes. Movement then occurs each pass (whether you have any actions in the pass or not) and 1/4th of the total listed in the book.

So someone with only one pass can walk, stop, walk, stop, as none of those take an action to do. But since running is a free action, he could do that in the first pass, but he couldn't start a run in another pass, as he doesn't have any free actions until IP 1 of the next combat turn.

What normally happens in my game is that players are able to just move in IP 4.
DireRadiant
Movement occurs during the entire course of the combat turn. The decision on movement occurs on the characters IP.

If you really need to go full tactical board movement,
1. divide everyones move by 4 (or 5 if they happen to have 5 IP for physical movement).
2. On each IP, PC acts if they have an action, and does a move.
If they have no action they continue the movement they started in a previous IP.
If they have an action they can change their move using their action to sprint, run, walk, stop, go prone etc.
Dragnar
I'd advise always dividing the move by 5, even if there's not actually anyone with 5 IPs present. Firstly, it makes the movement bits constant and you don't have to recalculate if you have to incorporate a char with 5 IPs and secondly, the movement rates are cleanly dividable by 5 anyway, so use that. smile.gif
Ayeohx
I appreciate the house-rules, and in the end I think I'll be using them, but I want to fully understand the core rules (before I toss them out the window).

Actually, I'm going to break this down using the rules from pg 148 SR4A.

"Once a mode of movement has been declared, the character moves in that mode until his next Action Phase."

Example: There are 3 initiative passes this turn but my human character only has 1 pass. I use a free action and run down the street covering 8 meters.

"A character continues to move in the last mode he chose during passes in which he does not have an action. This means a character with only one action, for example, who chooses to walk or run in the first Initiative Pass will be walking or running the same throughout subsequent Initiative Passes. The movement mode can only be changed when the character acts again."

During pass #2 the walkway directly ahead of the character is blown to bits. With the gangers chasing him he can't run backwards and with the walkway gone he doesn't really want to fall to his death.

Is the character allowed to stop running?

According to the rules above a character is only allowed to change movement during a phase in which he acts. So if the character can stop running in Pass #2 he wouldn't be allowed to start walking in pass #3 (in which he doesn't have a pass).

If this is how it works I'll probably allow people to at least stop movement and begin walking again. Of course, if I do this then why can't they drop prone? Wouldn't that be easier than starting to walk again? I realize dropping prone is a free action, but deciding to walk is tougher than dropping prone.
Ayeohx
Also, how do you guys factor the distance jumped in your movement? If I jump 9 meters at the end of a 23 meter run will I be midair at the beginning of next combat turn?
DireRadiant
It's not actually a House rule the dividing the movement.

See P. 149 Sr4A "If a character mixed his modes of movement during a Combat
Turn and it becomes important to know exactly how far the character
moved in a particular pass, simply divide his Movement Rate by the
number of passes in that turn."

The bit about doing it at 4 or 5 for everyone just makes it a bit easier to handle for all.

Ok, in your example. Because of someone else having extra IP, or the GM needing extra IP in a Combat Turn, the one IP character is confronted with the problem that stuff can happen faster then I can react when I am doing something syndrome. Or, the NPCs have I'm quicker then the PC so I can blow up the road they are about to run into syndrome.

So, 1 IP character decides, as a free action, to walk or run. They do this in the Declare Action section of their Action Phase.
See P. 146 SR4A
"When it’s your turn to act, you must declare the actions that you
will perform during the Action Phase."
See P. 148 SR4A
"To walk or run, the character must
declare it during the Declare Actions part of his Action Phase."

The 1 IP Character Declares, "I am going to do this!" Note the tense. They haven't done it yet. It's doesn't automagically happen they moment they say it. It's not impulse movement. You don't instantly travel from start to stop. It will happen in the future! (Other stuff can happen while they are moving! Like them getting shot dead. Does the corpse keep moving? Do we care if we are dead?)

In your example, they mess up the tense, but we know what they really meant. ("I use a free action and run down the street covering 8 meters.")

Meanwhile Our Baddies Declare and do whatever on IP 1, during which the character moves their allotted portion of 8 meters. Unfortunately the baddies blew up the walkway in front of the character, the little bit just ahead of where they actually are, but not quite there yet.

Does the PC have an IP Action to take? No! So they can't Declare Action. They cannot change what they are about to do, which is run off the walkway. Oops.

Note that as an abstract the mechanics don't take into account things like the likely acceleration time to get to top speed and slowing to a stop. Things you'd want to include if you were really going to model a precise physical movement.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the movement rules, it's really an issue that the character has 1 action, while someone else has more. During those extra actions they can do stuff to you that you cannot react to. If you got shot three times while shooting back only once, is this really any different then the fact you Declare and move once, while someone else can declare and move three times? I think it's more interesting to have an obstacle suddenly appear and have something happen, which apparently causes some concern, rather then simply having the bad guys shoot you extra times, which apparently seems to raise less concerns.
Mr. Unpronounceable
Yeah, they're supposed to act like the security guard in front of the roller in the first Austin Powers movie.
Functionally it's the downside to a 1-pass mook's suppression fire being effective for an entire turn instead of only a second or two.

Honestly...who can't stop walking within 10 meters?

In either case - a sane GM should basically roll their eyes and ditch the screwy rule in favor of whatever works for that group. I rather suspect that that's usually going to be something along the line of "you can always choose to stop." Or possibly "roll reaction, and reduce your movement by 1m/2 hits (or something similar) to avoid walking into the enormous gaping pit that's nearly 10 meters ahead of you.
DireRadiant
If I had 3 IP of actions for which I paid BP in either magic, ware or drugs, I would have some questions about why the 1 IP can act, stop and start, in one of my two extra actions, just because I have two extra actions. It wasn't a problem till I had those extra actions in which I could do something to that person. If I had only 1 IP in a combat turn, I expect the person with extra IP to do extra stuff during that turn. That's what the extra IP are for.

From my POV as a 3 IP person during a combat turn, as that 1 IP person moves 8 meters I can do things to them 3 times, at each time they may be at a different point in their 8 meter travel distance. From the POV of the 1 IP character during the course of their 8 meter move, 3 things can happen to them at different distances during the 8 meter travel distance. One of which may be falling down the hole they didn't know was there till appeared.

What if the hole was a covered hidden concealed trap? Would you object if the PC declares a 8 meter move, and halfway along fell in the trap? If they have 1 IP, and they use it shooting, and then run across the pit trap, do they now get an action?

One possibility is to allow for a Stop movement to be used as an Interrupt action. That way they are sacrificing an upcoming IP action to do something.
FlashbackJon
Given the enormous disparity between having 1 IP and having 2 IPs, compared to its minimal cost in BP, magic, ware, or drugs, I'd say that allowing a slower character to adjust non-action movement on their Init score in later passes is more than fair. smile.gif
PBI
Having movement happen this way also serves to cover the question of what type of movement if the target I'm shooting at engaging in, even if he's not actually moving during my action. Granted, that is more of a wargame aproach as opposed to RPG, but being a wargamer first and RPGer second, I recognized the artifice (intended or not) right away. It can serve to nip those anoying "But he's not moving this action/phase/pass" situations.
Mr. Unpronounceable
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 7 2009, 08:35 PM) *
What if the hole was a covered hidden concealed trap? Would you object if the PC declares a 8 meter move, and halfway along fell in the trap? If they have 1 IP, and they use it shooting, and then run across the pit trap, do they now get an action?

That's what reflex saves are for. grinbig.gif

But seriously - the point of a concealed trap is...you don't see it coming. That's a big difference from the big, obvious hole several meters in front of you.

To use a real-life example...you step out your front door, start walking toward the curb to get your paper, and a car pulls into the driveway. Do you walk smack into the car? Because by the game's rules you must, unless you have multiple IPs.

By contrast, if you cast ice sheet in front of a car, the driver gets a crash test to attempt to salvage the situation.
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ May 7 2009, 03:54 PM) *
But seriously - the point of a concealed trap is...you don't see it coming. That's a big difference from the big, obvious hole several meters in front of you.


The hole wasn't there when the 1 IP person started moving. It was created 1/3 or 2/3 of the way during their intended move.
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ May 7 2009, 03:54 PM) *
By contrast, if you cast ice sheet in front of a car, the driver gets a crash test to attempt to salvage the situation.


Why? Only because the vehicle rules say so. It's not part of the standard movement rules.
Mr. Unpronounceable
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 7 2009, 10:23 PM) *
The hole wasn't there when the 1 IP person started moving. It was created 1/3 or 2/3 of the way during their intended move.


Let me put it this way - if person A starts walking down a hallway toward an open door (6 meters away) then person B closes the door...does person A walk into the door like a windup toy?
If your answer is "yes" you might have an internally consistent rule system, but you've completely destroyed any verisimilitude. And I'd hate to try and walk on a sidewalk downtown in your game.
Lilt
I'd allow any character to stop moving or go prone on an initiative pass they didn't have an action. This lets a character avoid walking off a destroyed walkway, or getting cut-up by suppressive fire, but the character wouldn't be able to start moving again until their initiative pass.
Ayeohx
Problem solved on my end. Since Shadowrun's movement system isn't clear, I sat my group down today and hashed it out.

We are allowing players to keep their mode of movement selected on their last pass (until the next turn). For each pass in which they do not get to act they can at still choose movement. The character is even allowed to stop moving (the movement mode would still be whatever movement mode they last chose) if necessary and on a following pass continue running.

So basically, Mr One Pass can run on Pass #1, "run" zero meters pass #2 if he'd like and then run on pass #3.

This is far from optimal but realistically portraying the situation isn't either. My group went with the most important factor: "fun". Its not fun to be forced to complete your move and fall into an obvious pit or go running off of a rooftop.

Not only does this work for us but I think it's even the rules as written; something that we are trying to adhere to. If our interpretation of the RAW is incorrect I'd like to know so we may adjest our play-style.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ May 7 2009, 06:00 PM) *
Let me put it this way - if person A starts walking down a hallway toward an open door (6 meters away) then person B closes the door...does person A walk into the door like a windup toy?
If your answer is "yes" you might have an internally consistent rule system, but you've completely destroyed any verisimilitude. And I'd hate to try and walk on a sidewalk downtown in your game.


The stupid rule:

does person A walk into the door like a windup toy? Yes.

Is this stupid?

YES.

Moving on.
DireRadiant
I feel like someone has slammed a door in my face on the IP I don't have an action in.
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