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Oregwath
Okay, lets start with some background. I have never played Shadowrun before, but I have been trying to convince people to play for years now. I finally got someone who has agreed to run a game in the near future. I got all excited and made myself a magician.

Obviously I was not expecting a perfect character on the first try, but when I gave it to the gm he made a face and said, "well, if that is how you want to spend your points..." This has made me a little bit skeptical of my attempt at a character. I have a concept in mind, and I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to use the mechanics to back up this concept.

I was thinking of a magician from the Norse tradition. He was born rather frail and quickly drew the ridicule and scorn of his older siblings. The constant torment caused him to turn to Loki at an early age. He began his career as a shadowrunner to cause as much havoc as possible, and maybe even set up some circumstances to see his older siblings fall. He has a general distrust of heavy technology only uses it when there is no other option. For spells, I was thinking of one combat spell for a defense, but the rest being used for creating general mayhem instead of inflicting damage. I had taken mentor spirit and was going with raven.

Any help would be appreciated, but as there is still no set date for a game there is no real rush.
Wasabi
Most GM's have a heavy detective element in their games which may leave you twiddling your thumbs with a magical berserker. My advice to you would be to consider these facets for ANY SR character (in no particular order):

*Combat
*Investigation
*Support

If you can participate to a degree in each of these three arenas then you'll always have something to do during the game. Combat is self explanatory and should come easily to a build with a Norseman, but what do you do when you have to find someone who was kidnapped or find out who is ruining your teams street rep? You'll want investigation ability of some sort. (Mages's use of detection spells fits nicely in that niche). The third and equally important niche is support. Support is how you make others better when your abilities are of little use. SR4 is a game of specialists and sometimes those specialties can be time consuming. Perhaps you cast increase reaction on a driver who is using Augmented Reality to drive or you cast Increase Charisma on a Face character on his way to a meet. Maybe you have lots of contacts to reduce the time needed to sell off loot or to buy custom gear. Maybe you cast Detect <Individual> on a spirit to provide a distraction as the spirit rampages.

Each character weights these three facets separately. Hackers and Riggers might lend best to investigation and support while a street sam would be primary in combat. Include all three to a usable degree though and you'll have plenty of things to add to your team.

As for buildouts, there are several threads about the most useful or most powerful spells. Also consider spirits. They are like teammates who can die and be resurrected and never ask for a cut of the payout. Drain is important and once you pick your spells figure out the highest drain code at force 5 [for this example, we'll say 6] then have 3x-4x that value in drain dice. So to reliably cast a spell with a force 5 and drain code of 6 have 18-24 drain dice or pick a different spell. This means spells like Barrier, Mob Mind, and Mana Static, while powerful require a specialized high-drain-capable build or the mage puts himself out of action when he casts them. Edge can offset this but only while the Edge holds out. Different GM's have different typical refresh rates on Edge. In a Missions game its every 4 hours, in a homebrew game I've gone RL months with no refresh. YMMV.

As for the backstory you posted it has good detail and vision but does not sound like one well suited to shadowrun. Shadowrun often pits amazingly good characters in near unwinnable situations and a berserker doesn't sound like someone smart enough to run away when he needs to.... and you will from time to time! The GM of a typical game will put the characters in unwinnable situations and when you make a blood mages hair turn green for fun it may make things much, much worse. It would likely get you killed in my own gaming group since we have enough heat from baddies without teammembers adding to our troubles.

Hope that helps, and welcome to the shadows, Chummer!
Psikerlord
I think your character idea sounds cool, and would be fun to play. I agree however with Wasabi that you'll need some kind of info gathering spells, skills or contacts. Mind probe, influence and alter memory are all good info obtaining spells that will help you get to the truth of your run, or avoid a doublecross (... and there's always a doublecross!!!). In any event, I'm sure your GM will tailor the game to suit your character, and you can always pick up a few spells between runs as your earn karma. Have a blast. smile.gif
Ard3
Could you put your current version of character here? It would help possible advices a lot.

On mechanics:
-Take magic at 5
-soft max willpower + drain attribute (iirc charisma for norse)
-even is he frail, take body at least 3, so that first mean stare wont kill you
-on skills get one at 6 or 2 at 5, no reason to get lower
-dont forget Assensing & Perception(happened to me few times...)
-forget Banishing, its not worth it

Spells I recommend for your character:
-Levitate, always useful
-Magic fingers
-Poltergeist for fluff reasons, drain is bit high though
-imp Invisibility, very useful
-Swarm/Stench, to hinder opponents
-Hot potato
-Heal, always take this when magician

Read through what spell, spirit/power you have and be creative.
Doc Chaos
Followers of Loki are not mindless berserkers, who charge into battle and dont know when to quit. That would be Thors crowd wink.gif Think more like "Racoon Shaman", but with more focus on mischief (in his case, mischief that actually hurts people). Chaos and mind/emotion control spells are pretty good combat/attack/retreat support spells.

Just a quick thought that came to my mind: Maybe the character started out trying to wreak havoc all accross his path, but Raven showed up and now tries to get the char to let go of his rage, little by little. To what end... well, who really knows how those spirit thingies tick, eh? wink.gif
Wasabi
Best prank spells: Mass Animate and Trid Phantasm. High drain though.

Mass Animate a roomful of furniture on your way into a meet. Then when the drek hits the fan every table and chair walks itself over to barricade a door or bury an unconscious aggressor. The doorknobs bend away from hands grabbing them, etc. Animate grenades to spit out their pins [have a wire tied around the body of the grenade running through the ring of the pin so it can pull it itself. Animate car doors to slam shut as soon as opened or to fight being opened. Animate SIN cards to bend away from the swiping machine. Animate guns to eject their magazines.

Trid Phantasm, well... the possibilities are limitless. A few to get you started though: A Trid Phantasm of a brick wall inside the glass of the cockpit of an opponents car. (Can't see? Too bad!) or a Trid Phantasm of bodies being eaten by ghouls as you run away to encourage the pursuers to detour.

If you want an efficient character see what your spirits can do then DON'T get anything that dupes them. If you have later access to Invoking metamagic remember that an invoked spirit has all their powers turn into area powers further making duplication even less worthwhile.

As for being Loki for Mentor Spirits choose Raven over Trickster. That way you have less temptation to get yourself killed since Raven is an opportunist and Trickster is a little kid with A.D.H.D.
Oregwath
Thank you all. I wasn't very clear on one subject (that will teach me to post at 2 in the morning). When I said he wanted to wreak havoc, I was speaking in a social sense. Things like playing with people in smalls ways until they think they are going crazy, souring relationships between friends, and clogging up the works of the megacorps.

I think I can understand a bit about my gm's funny look now. I had a 2 in body, agility, reaction, and strength. I then had intuition and logic at 3, charisma and willpower at 5 and magic at 6. I guess I will take my magic down to five and raise body and one other stat up from 2. Most likely reaction I think....

I had taken the skill groups instead of individual skills, since I wasn't sure which ones I was going to need. I had conjuring and sorcery at 4 and influence at 3. Looking back I can see how I probably won't use much of the influence skill group. I will probably drop that and just take Con. I will probably drop all the groups and just take the ones that sound useful now.

I will pick up perception and assensing. How useful would astral combat be?

for qualities I had taken magician, mentor spirit, astral chameleon for positives, and sensitive system, spirit bane - earth, and gremlins for negatives.

I hadn't gotten any further then that, since when I started looking at spells my head began to swim. The three I had decided I wanted the most where Heal, Physical Mask, and Influence. I like the idea of having mass animate, trid phantasm, improved invisibility, and levitate.

The next question I have is how many bp's is considered average to spend on either bound spirits or foci? I don't want to start the game with a ton of spirits but at the loss of some other vital area I am unaware of. And foci seem to be rather expensive, costing both bp's to buy and then extra bp to get the money to buy the material.
Warlordtheft
Loki welcomes you to the fold...follow his guidance and stock up on whoopeee cushions and itching powder.

Thoughts For spells-
Physical Mask-yes, and use it often.
Trid Phantasm-Definite
Magic Fingers-(Heck yeah-nothing like making the razorgirl think the decker is getting touchy feely with her)
Mass confusion/orgy or similar...for the distraction.
Control thoughts (hey if they are that weak willed)
A detection spell (personal fav-detect guns extended)

(Almost Mandatory SR spells for any mage)
Heal
Stunball or Stunbolt


Just stick with con and a little Ettiquette and you be fine. Don't forget dodge.

PS: It is highly advisable not to give "special brownies" as an "apology" to a great dragon.
PSPS:Fortunately a dragon can't fly and crap at the same time. Who knew?
Kerenshara
QUOTE (Oregwath @ May 22 2009, 02:42 AM) *
Okay, lets start with some background. I have never played Shadowrun before, but I have been trying to convince people to play for years now. I finally got someone who has agreed to run a game in the near future. I got all excited and made myself a magician.

Obviously I was not expecting a perfect character on the first try, but when I gave it to the gm he made a face and said, "well, if that is how you want to spend your points..." This has made me a little bit skeptical of my attempt at a character. I have a concept in mind, and I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to use the mechanics to back up this concept.

I was thinking of a magician from the Norse tradition. He was born rather frail and quickly drew the ridicule and scorn of his older siblings. The constant torment caused him to turn to Loki at an early age. He began his career as a shadowrunner to cause as much havoc as possible, and maybe even set up some circumstances to see his older siblings fall. He has a general distrust of heavy technology only uses it when there is no other option. For spells, I was thinking of one combat spell for a defense, but the rest being used for creating general mayhem instead of inflicting damage. I had taken mentor spirit and was going with raven.

Any help would be appreciated, but as there is still no set date for a game there is no real rush.

First, let me congratulate you on a WONDERFULLY crafted character concept that has been woven (at least partly so far) into reflective game mechanics. I'm not sure what your GM is worried about, unless he is the type that expects mages to be all Combat spells and considers the "illusion" and "health" sections useless on principle. I have played with "utility" mages before, and also with an "illusionist" and let me tell you, there's more than one way to skin a cat slinging mana.

And what you chose is highly apropriate: Loki (Trickster from the books IIRC) would rely on misdirection and general confusion, even obfuscation to cause havoc among his enemies. Your choice of totem (sorry, I'm from 1st ed on that word, and I have given up trying to substitute "mentor spirit") is completely apropriate to the background, and your "development" is believably in line with both. Just be sure to include "Improved Invisibility" in the final version, because it's just too useful. Especially combined with "Levitate" and a couple sustaining foci.
paws2sky
QUOTE (Oregwath @ May 22 2009, 09:26 AM) *
I think I can understand a bit about my gm's funny look now. I had a 2 in body, agility, reaction, and strength. I then had intuition and logic at 3, charisma and willpower at 5 and magic at 6. I guess I will take my magic down to five and raise body and one other stat up from 2. Most likely reaction I think....

Yeah, bump up your Body and Reaction.

QUOTE
I had taken the skill groups instead of individual skills, since I wasn't sure which ones I was going to need. I had conjuring and sorcery at 4 and influence at 3. Looking back I can see how I probably won't use much of the influence skill group. I will probably drop that and just take Con. I will probably drop all the groups and just take the ones that sound useful now.

I will pick up perception and assensing. How useful would astral combat be?

for qualities I had taken magician, mentor spirit, astral chameleon for positives, and sensitive system, spirit bane - earth, and gremlins for negatives.


Binding, Summoning, Counterspelling, and Spellcasting are the magic skills you'll get the most use out of. Ritual Spellcasting is handy if you have a magical group or there are other magician PCs - even then, it can be pretty limited. Banishing is useful if you specifically build for it, but honestly, its usually much more efficient to just use a Manabolt.

Astral Combat is an often neglected skill. For what I've seen, it varies from useless to pwnage. Since magicians often neglect it, anyone with Astral Combat will tear them up. You'll also do well against weak spirits, but tough spirits though will likely tear you a new one (Spiritbolt or Manabolt is a much better choice, IMO).

Gremlins can be harsh. Proceed with caution.

QUOTE
I hadn't gotten any further then that, since when I started looking at spells my head began to swim. The three I had decided I wanted the most where Heal, Physical Mask, and Influence. I like the idea of having mass animate, trid phantasm, improved invisibility, and levitate.


Don't forget to buy a combat spell. Even if you prefer more subtle methods, its always good to have that ace up your sleeve.

QUOTE
The next question I have is how many bp's is considered average to spend on either bound spirits or foci? I don't want to start the game with a ton of spirits but at the loss of some other vital area I am unaware of. And foci seem to be rather expensive, costing both bp's to buy and then extra bp to get the money to buy the material.


Bound spirits are a waste of BP. Much better to buy binding materials and bind spirits during your downtime.

For foci... it depends on the character. I prefer to keep it to a minimum - Power Focus (2), Weapon Focus (2), or Sustaining Focus (3) are your most versatile options. For this character, you might consider picking up an Sustaining Focus for either Illusions or Manipulations.

-paws
Oregwath
Excellent, thank you very much. I think I have a good hold on this guy now. I will post a finished product when I get back from class. Gotta love summer courses, they let you get your degree so much faster. smile.gif
Screaming Eagle
I would further the Raven over Trickster choise. If your going to have a second combat spell (past mana bolt/ball) and are Norse themed I would suggest lightning, bolt or ball. Cause... lightning... Ya the drain might knock you on your butt... lightning.
I would suggest mask over invisablilty because you can confuse people more and engender more chaos with mask (pure opinion). I would lean into the mental manipulations and illusion spells in general. I take Heal on every mage ever but you might consider not taking it to start and con the group into buying it for you. It just doesn't feel like the kind of thing Loki would do for free. I'm away from my books but I'm sure you could cook up a "Self only" or "my race only" heal spell to take untill the party forks over the Yen - this choise isn't about making an efficent build anymore, its about having a laugh at the expence of others. "Ya I can heal, no not you, just myself. Healing others is harder, I know a guy whos got the formula but I straped for cash and I'm not big on studying. Good luck with your hospital visit, I'm going to your house, to make sure nothing goes wrong with your girlfriend. Ciao!" I'm warming to this idea... laughing man/ bad man.
The only other thing I might suggest is to take a non-standard weapon for mudanely dropping people instead of the usual pistol/ automatics: pain induser, dart gun, grenade launcher. Something perhaps less efficient then standard weapons but scarier - who the heck knows whats in those darts.
gtjormungand
QUOTE (Oregwath @ May 22 2009, 08:26 AM) *
I think I can understand a bit about my gm's funny look now. I had a 2 in body, agility, reaction, and strength. I then had intuition and logic at 3, charisma and willpower at 5 and magic at 6. I guess I will take my magic down to five and raise body and one other stat up from 2. Most likely reaction I think....


That looks like you haven't spent 200 BP on Physical and Mental Attributes, which I recommend for all but riggers. The Magic and Edge attributes don't count towards that limit.
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (Screaming Eagle @ May 22 2009, 11:31 AM) *
I would further the Raven over Trickster choise. If your going to have a second combat spell (past mana bolt/ball) and are Norse themed I would suggest lightning, bolt or ball. Cause... lightning... Ya the drain might knock you on your butt... lightning.
I would suggest mask over invisablilty because you can confuse people more and engender more chaos with mask (pure opinion). I would lean into the mental manipulations and illusion spells in general. I take Heal on every mage ever but you might consider not taking it to start and con the group into buying it for you. It just doesn't feel like the kind of thing Loki would do for free. I'm away from my books but I'm sure you could cook up a "Self only" or "my race only" heal spell to take untill the party forks over the Yen - this choise isn't about making an efficent build anymore, its about having a laugh at the expence of others. "Ya I can heal, no not you, just myself. Healing others is harder, I know a guy whos got the formula but I straped for cash and I'm not big on studying. Good luck with your hospital visit, I'm going to your house, to make sure nothing goes wrong with your girlfriend. Ciao!" I'm warming to this idea... laughing man/ bad man.
The only other thing I might suggest is to take a non-standard weapon for mudanely dropping people instead of the usual pistol/ automatics: pain induser, dart gun, grenade launcher. Something perhaps less efficient then standard weapons but scarier - who the heck knows whats in those darts.


I have a similar themed NPC-Der Nacht who is trickster. His weapon of choice is a monowhip (only used when he is really annoyed).

Fun things to do-invite/con ooposition into meeting with you-on a boat or even just a building. Ward the building, and cast trid phantasm in the room. The room is basically normal except the comfy office chair is really a chair with restraints (the other is behind a desk that you are sitting in). Opposition sitdown-restraints go off or electro shock him to unconciousness. Deal with at your leisure, or dump overboard (if at sea).
Oregwath
Spiffy, time to unveil my creation.

Name: Sigrun
Metatype: Human

Body:3 Agility:3 Reaction:3 Strength:2
Charisma:5 Intuition:4 Logic:3 Willpower:5
Edge:2 Essence:6 Initiative:6 Magic:5

Assensing:4 Binding:4 Con:3 Counterspelling:4 Perception:4 Spellcasting:6 Summoning:4 (weapon skill):1
I haven't choosen a weapon yet. My gm has also said that he is dreading a hacker because it takes away from the group when one person is in another realm, so I don't really see him doing alot of Astral Combat, so I went ahead and left that off... I hope I don't end up regretting it.

English:N Norse Mythology:6 Magical Theory:3 Astral Research:3 Safe Houses:3 Spirits:3 Local Area Knowledge:3
(Yeah, most of those are pulled right off the sample characters)

Magician, Mentor Spirit (Raven), Astral Chameleon, Sensitive System, Spirit Bane (Earth), Gremlins (2 ranks)
I know that the gremlins can get me into trouble, but I figured that it would help to explain why he is so distrustful of technology while living in a very techy world.

Control Thoughts
Heal
Influence
Improved Invisibility
Levitate
Lightning Bolt
Magic Fingers
Mass Confusion
Physical Mask
Poltergeist
Stunbolt
Trid Phantasm

I was tempted take mind probe but didn't because I see him as wanting to use influence and con to try to make them tell their secrets. More satisfying then just taking it from them. The Heal is going to be a self heal type only, I liked the idea of having the team pooling resources for spells they expect me to use on them. I just put in heal for now because I have to work on making the self heal spell.

Sustaining Focus (3) Silver Raven's Head Medallion

25k nuyen.gif

I am thinking of dropping two spells and putting those 6 bp into a contact. Most likely a Gode who can hook me up with more norse magic paraphernalia. I was also thinking of going with a Ruger Warhawk with APDS rounds. I know that this may not be standoutish, but I am leaning toward the image of a handcannon with the name "Trollslayer" etched on the side and watching the bullets cut through just about everything... yeah I know, corny. rotate.gif
Screaming Eagle
I believe APDS out strips starting avaliablity... sadly.
ExEX though... stick and shock maybe?
Flachette for that "I'm invisable and can aim for your eyes" fun?
Oregwath
Ah, so they are. Bummer. I don't think that stick and shock would fit. If he wanted to do that he has the lightning bolt spell. With a weapon skill of one and two levels of gremlin I think I should probably stay away from the EX Explosion rounds... that would hurt.

The flechette rounds are looking like the best option. Although since the armor reduction 6 is gone I might go for a more unusual weapon.
Screaming Eagle
Microwave Pain Induser, the name says it all.... I'm pretty sure they suck though, suppose I need to look at the rules for it.

A second look at the write up: you only do stun damage with Lightning Bolt (took one of my players to point that out to me, I lightninged him so good, lucky git), you may wish to take mana bolt instead of stun to actually kill things.
overcannon
I would suggest the Defiance-Ex Shocker. That way, you have nothing illegal on your person.

If you have access to the Runners Companion, I would suggest that you take a look at the compulsive quality, and give him some sort of prank related compulsion.

Control thoughts will give you a horrific edge. It is perhaps the most broken spell in the game, so use it wisely to avoid getting geeked.

As I see it the purpose of having a sustaining focus is so you can dump increase reflexes on it and throw a whole lot of spells. Stun bolt might be a good substitution.

Also, you can save 5 BP by making him a dwarf. I think that might be good. You would end up getting 1 more strength at the cost of 1 edge. It just might be fun to have a short little trickster, and it would also expand upon the reasons he got picked on.

Since you don't have any skills that make Magic Fingers useful, you may be better off with something else. I suggest dropping the spell and finding a way to save one more point. Then in conjunction with the 5 points saved by going the dwarf, you could get an additional rating 3 sustaining focus so that you can sustain improved reflexes and invisibility simultaneously. Alternatively, If you want to keep either stun bolt or magic fingers, you could drop Binding by one rank.

In general, this character is very specialized, and that is not necessarily a problem, but you may want to loosen him up a bit.
Wolfshade
As you stated you wanna cause as much social chaos as possible, I think the Orgasm spell (as well as/or it's aoe partner Orgy) would be very effective. A legal stun weapon that gets overlooked is the Pulsar. A stun weapon with Heavy (or light....can't remeber and books at home) Pistol range. The workhorse combat spell I've always used and seen is Mana Bolt (and/or Ball) for combat, but stun bolt is more fitting the character. Armor might be a good spell for sustaining as well increased reflexes. Either run or stand there and watch the fun. Palming(with Magic Fingers) would be an intresting skill choice. I also like the concept and what youve got so far. Good Luck.
Jaid
QUOTE (Screaming Eagle @ May 22 2009, 05:03 PM) *
A second look at the write up: you only do stun damage with Lightning Bolt (took one of my players to point that out to me, I lightninged him so good, lucky git), you may wish to take mana bolt instead of stun to actually kill things.

no. electric damage is *usually* stun. not always. if lightning bolt were stun, then it would have 1 less drain than every other elemental spell of the same type (we learn this in street magic). as such, even though electric damage is *usually* stun, in this case it is not. the lightning spells deal physical damage, as do iirc any spirit powers that do lightning damage.

i would probably ditch poltergeist, personally... you can create just as much chaos with an illusion of objects flying all over the place.
heal functions on a different basis for drain than other spells. it may or may not actually cause less drain when it is limited target... talk to your GM.
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (overcannon @ May 22 2009, 07:28 PM) *
Since you don't have any skills that make Magic Fingers useful, you may be better off with something else. I suggest dropping the spell and finding a way to save one more point. Then in conjunction with the 5 points saved by going the dwarf, you could get an additional rating 3 sustaining focus so that you can sustain improved reflexes and invisibility simultaneously. Alternatively, If you want to keep either stun bolt or magic fingers, you could drop Binding by one rank.

In general, this character is very specialized, and that is not necessarily a problem, but you may want to loosen him up a bit.

Yoou don't need skills to make magic fingers useful. What skill to do you use to move stuff.
Screaming Eagle
QUOTE (Jaid @ May 22 2009, 08:28 PM) *
no. electric damage is *usually* stun. not always. if lightning bolt were stun, then it would have 1 less drain than every other elemental spell of the same type (we learn this in street magic). as such, even though electric damage is *usually* stun, in this case it is not. the lightning spells deal physical damage, as do iirc any spirit powers that do lightning damage.


Ah yes, good catch... hmm, well looks like I fast talked into house ruling it otherwise... so I did succesfully BBQ the fragger for being an idiot. Vengance will be mine! Also cake.

Taking a look at Street Magic (god's its good to be home with my books and my beer) Heal (Self only) would have a drain value of (Damage Vaule -4) rather then the usual DV-2, an ok break on the drain given the DV will (when you REALLY want to use the spell) be 6 or more.
Screaming Eagle
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ May 22 2009, 09:31 PM) *
Yoou don't need skills to make magic fingers useful. What skill to do you use to move stuff.

Exotic melee weapon: Monowhip <edit> specialization: W. Magic Fingers </edit>
Club - specialization: Grenades
Oregwath
In Norse mythology the dwarves are most often associated with death, battle, craftsmenship, and earth. None of those really fit in with the theme I was going for. Especially with Spirit Bane-Earth. Of course, they were also the size of humans and were said to have made their own lord out of the remains of titans... My point? I am not sure I actually have one, just thought I would mention that.

I think that I am going to drop stun bolt and replace it with orgy, if my gm agrees with the incapacitation after reaching willpower part. Aside from that I am most likely going to drop mass confusion and poltergeist to get a contact. I am feeling sort of lonely with nothing in my contact list. They will probably be high on list of spells to learn once the game starts, but as of right now they can be dropped.

I want to thank you all for your help. I have sent the link to this thread to my gm so he can read it too.
Wasabi
For contacts see "Control Thoughts" and "Influence", above. :-)
Psikerlord
I would consider losing control thoughts for increased reflexes. Utility wise you can achieve the same sort of results with influence (to a lesser degree, but then the target thinks it was his own idea, which is very handy). Those extra initiative phases are pretty crucial once the drek hits the fan.
Cthulhudreams
The key to being a mage is to remember this

If you can easily replicate the effect with an AK-47, hand grenade or power saw, do something else.

The rest of the team will have that stuff - so you need different stuff to do. This is why fireball is a bad spell, and detect life is fricken stupidly awesome. Fireball is just like a handgrenade in all respects and someone else on your team will have that under control. No need to tread on his toes by doing what he already does. This is also why magic fingers is just bad, the rigger will have drones and they can do it.

However, detect life gives you a startrek tridcorder which tells you where everyone in the area is, what they are doing and what they are thinking. No-one else on the team can do this at all, and this makes detect life just fantastic. Same for heal, trid phantasm etc.

Anyway, a sample starting mage: Kudos to franktrollman. If you want to make him 'better' you can easily make him an ork or whatever. It's designed to be an intitution tradition mage to leverage the synegies between assessning (a unique magical capability) and magic, but you can swap that around no problem.

[ Spoiler ]
overcannon
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ May 22 2009, 09:31 PM) *
Yoou don't need skills to make magic fingers useful. What skill to do you use to move stuff.

Well, I am just suggesting that without certain skills like lockpick, demolitions, or palming, Magic Fingers is limited to distance activation of devices, which I would view as being applicable in a narrow sense. Now I know that it has other uses, but since he has the levitate spell, many of those are already accounted for.

Besides, what we are talking about is maximum utility within a specific concept. While Magic fingers fits that concept well, Increased Reflexes is almost absolutely necessary. Something has to give to get that spell in, and that would be my choice of what to boot.

QUOTE (Psikerlord @ May 23 2009, 05:48 AM) *
I would consider losing control thoughts for increased reflexes. Utility wise you can achieve the same sort of results with influence (to a lesser degree, but then the target thinks it was his own idea, which is very handy). Those extra initiative phases are pretty crucial once the drek hits the fan.


Don't. You do absolutely need increased reflexes, but this isn't the right trade. Remember, Control Thoughts includes the thought "Kill Yourself."

QUOTE (Oregwath @ May 22 2009, 10:57 PM) *
In Norse mythology the dwarves are most often associated with death, battle, craftsmenship, and earth. None of those really fit in with the theme I was going for. Especially with Spirit Bane-Earth. Of course, they were also the size of humans and were said to have made their own lord out of the remains of titans... My point? I am not sure I actually have one, just thought I would mention that.


Fair enough. A player who more wants to stick to their concept more than min/max is welcome in my book. It is 5 points worse though. My general thoughts on matters like those are that your character should attempt to benefit from the upsides of that choice, namely Edge. Boosting it to 3 would be good, but I don't see where you could get the points for that.
Oregwath
I have a question about magic fingers... one I think could be quite hilarious and useful at the same time. Is there anything to stop a magician from using magic fingers to push the button on the side of a gun and eject the clip? I hope the baddies enjoy trying to take us down with just the round in the chamber. rotfl.gif

Of course, it also helps with the small revenge stuff. Shoes tied together, pants dropping, messing with commlinks. (I think that there are external controls on commlinks but I am not sure.)
overcannon
QUOTE (Oregwath @ May 24 2009, 10:13 AM) *
I have a question about magic fingers... one I think could be quite hilarious and useful at the same time. Is there anything to stop a magician from using magic fingers to push the button on the side of a gun and eject the clip? I hope the baddies enjoy trying to take us down with just the round in the chamber. rotfl.gif


Well, it would work with dumbfire weapons, but it wouldn't work against smartguns. Smartguns have an electronic system, so the commlink decides when to make the clip drop.
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (overcannon @ May 24 2009, 01:52 PM) *
Well, it would work with dumbfire weapons, but it wouldn't work against smartguns. Smartguns have an electronic system, so the commlink decides when to make the clip drop.


GMs call. It isn't specified in raw. Smartlinked they maybe, but that doesn't mean the button to eject the clip isnt there. There is also the matter of the extraction bolt (you may remove the clip leaving him with just 1 round chambered).
Cthulhudreams
Why not just shoot them with stick and shock rounds? Or Stunbolt?

You need to assess GMs expectations of Fun™ vs Functional ™. Judging by the 'if thats how you want to spend your points' remark, the GM has strong functional expectations, and your problem is you don't know how to address those expectations.

Taking magic fingers is not going to address those expectations.
Psikerlord
@overcannon - true enough, control thoughts is the combat winner against a single foe, and in broad terms you can achieve more with it than influence (especially if you combine it with alter memory). But some GMs are quire wary abuot control thoughts, and dislike seeing it used too much... Influence has a "sneakier" side to it, and GMs are more accepting of it.
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