I'm a bit confused by clothing costs. It says on p. 316 that clothing costs 20-100,000 nuyen. But it doesn't give any further information or details. I'd assume 20 nuyen clothing is that disposable stuff. But what would 100,000 nuyen clothing be? What would it cost for a decent suit or dress that you could wear to a high class restaurant for a Johnson meet?

Spoken like a good RP geek that doesn't get out much (I kid, no offense ment).

It's really a per-GM judgement call, so this is the sort of thing you should ask your GM if you're not sure what his expectations are. Personally, I think 1000$ for a man should get you acceptably well dressed to typical formal events. At 5000$ you should be pimping it out, or dressed for very high society. Higher than that is really only if you're dealing with something like the Grand Tour.

To reflect reality, I'd double all of those numbers when dealing with female clothes.

Although costs have changed, you're probably okay stealing SR3 costs: ordinary clothes are 50:nuyen:, fine clothes 500 , and "tres chic" clothes 1000 . From that scale 20 gets you used, threadbare stuff in last year's fashion. The fine clothes will probably be fine for any genteel or businesslike meeting; tres chic is only for the poshest clubs. Any more than 1000 and you're looking at custom tailored stuff that will likely make the Johnson raise his or her eyebrows and think of you as a fop.

Compare to lifestyle prices. 100,000 for clothes is enough to live on for months, if not years, for most people in the sixth world. Think of the most extravagant luxury clothes from today, then turn them up to 11. No, 12. Want your suit to have an illusion of an aquarium, complete with fish that respond to outside stimuli? Or a dress that leaves precious little to the imagination, sparkles like diamonds because it's made of them, and keeps you warm in temperatures of -20 C or cool up to 50 C? Sure, for the right price! It's not stuff most shadowrunners can afford or would think of buying. In fact, many of them, like many people, would probably be affronted by such conspicuous, useless consumption.

Spending thousands on your armor and guns, including customization? That's different. That's business and professional pride.

that sums it up pretty well. if yu want to be really accurate just translate today's $'s into .
For example in Target you can get a pair of jeans for $20 that are good for gardening. or for $80 I can get some amazing jeans.

Spending 100K on clothes isn't that unbelievable.

A pair of Luis Vuitton Lord Richelieu shoes (mens dress shoes made from calf leather) retail for $1240.00 US. Just shoes.
A classic tux by Georgio Armani is ~$2000.00 US (*before* tailoring)
Dolce & Gabbana Tuxedo Shirt $840.00
Stefano Ricci diamond pattern Bow-Tie $855.00
Throw in a Philip Stein watch only $2,245.00 (not including commlink).
Loro Piana over coat $1,955.00 (without armor)

Thats a total of $9,135.00. Add some odds and ends (you gotta have some James Bond cufflinks) and you've spent 10% of you wardrobe allowance on *one night* posing as a corporate mover and shaker.

I would imagine a 100,000 Nuyen outfit as being something that merges designer looks with ultra-futuristic technology. Perhaps Dolce & Gabbana's late 21st century equivalent produces evening gowns that incorporate nano-technology to create shifting patterns and shapes.

Yes the 100k outfit would not only be a unique lice but would be an outstanding item. I as a GM would aloe armored protection in such items. They would be pure excrtarigance. I can see a ritch TM wearing nano tech cloths with a built in com and holloprojecters. It would be a statemen as much as an outfit and in more ways than normaly clothing.

For decision making regarding clothes to wear, I use lifestyle as a guideline. For PC with a High lifestyle visiting a swank AAA area meet with the Johnson, they don't need to get new clothes, they wear or have it already. But that Squatter street sam will need to shell out for a new set of duds to get by the snooty doorman. They either shell out to bribe the doorman to ignore their cheap flats, or shell out for new clothes.

Works the other way too, PC have to dress down occasionally to not stand out as a mark in the seedier hoods.

Unless you've got a solid rep and your runner buddies with you. Smartly dressed and well-groomed in the Barrens doesn't necessarily make you prey - it could instead tip off that you're a top predator. Either way, it will stand out.

Dressing to the nines in the Barrens makes a statement. You may be met with a response and have to back it up, but you've said something with your clothing. Dress in 100k outfits, though, and you are probably just going to look like an idiot. Unless, of course, you spent 100k on prettying-up a solid set of milspec hardened armor, possibly with built-in artillery, in which case the Barrens can go to hell 'cause there isn't a thing they can do to you.

But piling on the best of Armani's Armante's offerings to meet a Johnson also says something. Specifically, it says your probably rich and definitely dressing to impress. If you want to look like that for the Johnson, you have to think about what they're hiring you for. A standard job? They'll be rather worried that any runners who can afford to dress like you would take some paltry credsticks for their work. High-end stuff? Then you should look like professionals, not dandies. I'd say you only want to outfit yourselves like that if you're mingling with the uppermost crust or showing your chops to a Johnson who would want you to be able to.

Also, the next character I run who gets a suit of security armor is definitely going to pay extra to have it gold plated and possibly festooned with sequins.

I always considered the 20Â¥ as being Vendormachine sold
1-Use Underoos & Coverall.Bland,simple (colored Black or White).
50-100 ¥ for Squatter or Street style Clothings, 100-500 for Medium Lifestyle
About 1000-5000 for High Class and 10.000+ ¥ for a complete set of taylormade Luxury Style Clothing incl. Accessories
the range from 20 to 100.000 means its up to the GM and his Group to decide for their Kind of Game how much Detail (and Micromanagement) they want to use.

with a 1.000 ¥ Dance
Medicineman

Yes, you can certainly take it too far, but several of the armored suits available in SR4 and Arsenal - generally under a few thousand nuyen - would be fine for the statement many runners might want to make.

Actioneer Business Suit (5/3) and Form Fitting Body armor(half-body version) (4/2) (2400 yen) for poshier meets.
Lined Coat (6/4) and Form Fitting Body armor (half-body version)(4/2) (1600 yen) for rougher meets.
Those are my favorites..

You do realize that if you are spending 100k on a dress you are going to have the hired help wear armor.

Besides when you are wearing a dress made of glass and diamonds, I really fail to see where you hide the unobtanium bulletproof plates.

A custom Jean Paul Gaultier ensemble will easily set you back 1 million euros.

I also find it amusing like when a GM asked me when we were going to a club, "are you wearing armor?" My first impression was that of the DJ using a tommy gun to make people dance.

Oh and a 2000 dollar watch is cheap. My brother's ex-wife's father makes custom watches that cost the same as a house.

As always dress for the occassion, but having a set of form fitting or second skin is run of the mill underwear for sensible runners.

As for the costs of clothing, as previously mentioned 3rd Ed had basic @ 50 nuyen, fine @ 500 nuyen and tres chic @ 1,000 nuyen. this was for the basic unarmoured stuff. I usually treated these values as enough for an entire outfit. Of course, there were more expensive fashions - mainly covered in the 2nd ED sourcebook Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life and later revised with other new stuff in 3rd Ed's Canon Companion. the former covered basic comcepts from an in-character 6th World media viewpoint and the later is pure gamespeak, but has quite a bit of information and rules incorporated into it's write up.

Of course, 4th Ed has a slightly different value to the nuyen than before, but clothing pretty much stays the same. At the cheaper end of the spectrum i'd go with the others here and say it's pretty much second-hand, jumble/yard sale, charity shop or ex-mil surplus supply stores. Or even one-use "flats" - good and disposable with the bloodstains too. Anything around the 500-1000 mark, I'd treat as off the rack store bought stuff - possibly current fashions with specialist suits of clothing - IE: logoed sportswear, tuxedo, cocktail dresses, going around 2000-5000. Anything higher than that and you're most likely talking tailored to fit at Saville Row or Mortimer's of London. (Unless you're after a bargain and hop the suborbital to Bangkok for a nice silk suit - good for the up & coming triad look.)

At the really top end of the scale, then yup its one-of-a-kind designer ensemble - don't forget to accessorise. Oh yeah, and take into account metatype variations. Not so much a bother for the custom tailored stuff, but definately a price hike profit margin for those off-the-rack fashions. thank the spirits for Evo huh.

yeah we found thast's the best set to have, add a few pieces and it looks like the code 2 load out from GitS.
Otherwise we try to blend in where were are with in down time people have their own styles

Remember, not necessarily. Many RL homeless people get up every morning and head off to work, just like the rest of us.

Ever seen the movie The Pursuit of Happyness? The main character, Chris Gardner, was a real guy who live on the street with his not-even-2 year old son (the movie had the kid older, about 8 ) and owned two suits: one blue, one gray. Every day he went to the cleaners, dropped off one suit, then walked over to Dean Witter Reynolds wearing the other. The other guys competing for the same job joked that he was re-enacting the civil war himself.

His suits weren't expensive as all hell suits, but they weren't rags.

None of Gardner's coworkers knew that he and his son were homeless in the Tenderloin District of San Francisco for nearly a year.

Considering that Arsenal incorporates rules for clothing of all types, I just use those when we're looking at stuff that gives armor and assume that lifestyle covers the rest.

See I've always interpreted the prices listed in the BBB as the cost for an entire wardrobe. So for 20 you get rags, some shoes with holes and disposable "flats" you purchase out of vending machines. For 100,000 you have basically anything you might want or need for any occasion. As a general guideline I have my players pay one month's lifestyle cost and assume they have a wardrobe that reflects the appropriate lifestyle.

However, if you have a "middle lifestyle" wardrobe and you need a "high" or "luxury" outfit you can pay whatever seems appropriate. 10% of the relevant lifestyle cost seems reasonable. Or specific items listed in Arsenal. Or any of the suggestions above.

For a guy, 10,000 would produce a wardrobe that would be reasonable for anything from a meeting with Damien Knight and his board to talk about Ares investing 300 million to digging ditches. High end woman's clothing is more expensive and seemingly more single purpose, so I'd expect you'd need to spend more to cover the various high-end events when a man would simply wear a dark suit.

You kidding?

You have to have a closet full of clothing to go meet Damien Knight. This is more than a suit which you wear twice once for your wedding and once for your burial.

10,000 is just for travel if you want to impress Damien Knight.

Clothing does tend to make the person (and the first impression), for good or bad...

Impress him? No. You can't use clothing to impress someone who can give out corporate jets as party favors. But you do need a well made suit and accessories to not look stupid. And what would you do with a closet of clothing at a meeting? Bring it out and show it to him? He's unlikely to really care if you are wearing custom made underwear.

From Damien Knight's reputation, I suspect he can appreciate a good suit and can also appreciate someone wearing an off-the-rack Actioneer over form-fitting body armor. Mr. Knight seems like a man who takes results over style.

He's also richer than Croesus, so yes, trying to impress him may be futile. All his suits are double-dikoted.

*snickers*

And that's per outfit. How many pairs of shoes does the typical straight male actually own? Same question about a woman? Or pairs of slacks? Jackets? UNDERGARMENTS?! From an RP perspective, I would say probably much more than double, probably clost to tripple or even quadruple.

Excellent ponits, and that's how we have always run things. Consider, however, how far the cost of even a SINGLE "high" lifestyle outlet would stretch to cover "dress down" items? If the 'runner chose to, I see no reason they might not have a little trunk in the closet with "special" low class outfits. It's the mindset, after all, that makes a good 'runner.

THREAD TITLE is optional.
No, not on Runs. Well, ok, if you're a big, bad cybertroll you might live to tell about it ^^

I remember reading in one of the books (BBB? I'm away from my source material for a page cite) that your clothing was one of the the things that went away if you failed to maintain the lifestyle (Pay up or get out is the header IIRC). That would imply that the clothing apropriate to your lifestyle (and its maintenance and replacement) would be a factored-in part of your lifestyle. If you "paid" for it as you suggest, that would keep it from being taken, but then it also will "expire" as in become "dated" so you will begin to stick out at a given level. Even "low" lifestyles assume some updating and replacement. Fibers in 2070 are tough, but they do wear out. In fact, given modern trends in quality, I see no reason 6th world corps would focus any more on durability than they have to in order to drive repeat sales.

An exact reference would be helpful, but I'm inclined to think this is mostly fluff and the author just needed some examples of how your life will suck if you don't pay the bills. I think its safe to say that there are no hard and fast rules and the fact that they list "clothes" separate from lifestyles means there are reasons for buying clothes distinct from lifestyle. The most logical reason, to my thinking, is to purchase clothes for a lifestyle you don't maintain (as has been discussed above). Just like your lifestyle might include a car or other transportation, but if you want a rigger-equipped death-dealing speedster you still need to buy it separately.

And really, where would a fashionista social adept be without her endless wardrobe for every locale and occasion?

SR4A, P.267: Lifestyles

Lifestyle measures the quality of a character’s daily life and her living expenses, including shelter, food, entertainment, clothing and so on. It does not cover technical resources, weapons, magical equipment, professional hirelings, or other major but not personal items.

I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentement. The car is included with any lifestyle High (20 points) or higher, per the Shadowrun Companion, P.260: Vehicles. But that vehicle is leased, not owned, so you can't modify it. That's clearly stated. And the final point: because my character would! is dead on. Kerenshara's not that much of a clothes horse at the moment mostly because she lost all what she had for all intents and purposes recently. But her "high" lifestyle covers plenty of clothes, shoes and other accessories for now.

They'd be a social Mystic Adept with the Fashion spell and a specialization in Manipulation?

*clears throat*

"Nothing to see here, move along. Move along." ::Kerenshara

This is the original premise I built Kerenshara along - MA with Voice Control, Facial Sculpt, Melanin Control, the Fashion spell and the Makeover spell. Give me eighteen seconds, and I'll give you a whole new me.

Heh, I definately know that one of my female players would spend a whole session on in-character shoe shopping trips at the Renraku Arcology Mall if I let her.* Then again, I know many of my male players would use the same time to hang out in-character at Weapons World or the lateast Westwind dealership if they could.

I agree with the Lifestyle comments above - that general clothing is included therein. I also think that 10% of appropriate Lifestyle nuyen cost is very near the mark of getting a single outfit of that particular standard. I usually play the colthing issue as inclusive of the Lifestyle, but if the characters need/want something specific for a run, or as a one-shot item then that's what the clothing costs are for. Quite a few of my players have learnt to purchase separate "running" attire - usually disposable and often with little additional perks like hidden pockets and concealing lines. got to keep your incriminating evidence down to a minimum - bloodstains are sooooo hard to shift.

[*actually, she's quick to draw up a sketch of her character in the new outfit - I've got a handout folder with around twenty in already. It's almost like the latest Matel catalogue: Here we have Street Combat runner, Hippy NAN runner, Corporate Shark runner, Barrens Streetwalker-Ho runner... (just replace runner with Barbie and you get the idea, neh?)]

*Rolls on the floor, trying to breathe and wiping away tears*

Seriously though, bloodstains? There's a spell that (if you think about it) fixes that: sterilize. Removes any trace evidence, including blood. Why shouldn't it work on clothing, too?

I have sheets for each persona my character adopts on a run, like your handout folder. That's why it's so funny to me: Each one has a default outfit apropriate to the roll listed on it.

Sterilize does NOT remove bloodstains. All it does is make the blood useless as a material link and for genetics-linked evidence. It's still blood, and it's still a stain.

That's more or less one of the core components of the MA I'm playing at the moment as well. One of these days I just need to research a couple of custom spells to complete the package: a Health spell that grows hair quickly (insta-beard!--styling to be handled by Makeover) and a minor shapechanging Manipulation spell for doing retinal modification. And if I really get frisky (that's probably a loaded term to use here ), a stronger Manipulation spell for some temporary magical gender-bending.

Physical Illusion (Mask) essentially could handle the gender, except to tactile. I would say it would be based off the shapechange line.

I talked with my GM about the makeover spell, and we agreed that as a manipulation spell, it made sense to be able to "extrude" hair. I also suggested it could be an offshoot of healthy glow, which is health. (Instant clean up.) But a custom spell like that would be low drain and difficulty to concoct. We decided it wasn't worth it overall to make a spell that's already half way between two existing spells. I suppose your answer is technically more RAW. For retinal mods, that's a real beast, because you have to be able to percieve the retina to be duplicated in three dimensions then internalize it. Same for fingerprints. I just sucked it up and went with the nanoware.

Are they any good? You should encourage her to post them somewhere.

And 10x for shoes.