Before we get started, I should point out that I have only been playing for a few months. In that time I've gotten some experience playing tech-geeks of various kinds. The group I play in tends to rotate through GMs, and as a result most players have a small collection of characters (many they have been playing on and off for years). Most of the characters I've built thus far are weak-ish human geeks. They're fun, but I think I'd like to add a big dumb low-tech bruiser to my "porfolio."

I'm thinking about a big, tough, ugly, dumb, non-tech troll. I was thinking the SURGE Mechanics would be a good fun place to play in. I'm also thinking to take him slightly into the magic realm instead of the cybertech route I normaly tred, but in all honesty, I haven't looked at the magic rules much... so I'm posting here for help.

I don't have Street Magic available to me here at the moment, but I have the main book, runner's companion, augmentation, and arsenal to work with.

In general I was thinking about a SURGE II or III Fomori Adept, with Quils, & Astral Hazing. I want a guy that's tough, hard to touch with magic, is mostly about melee (and/or bows?), and doesn't use a lick of tech. More or less the oposite of my other characters acutally. Also: Kilt + using my Beard as a weapon = Fun.

In terms of Tech, I'd like to keep him as simple as armor, and a commlink he doesn't really like having to use. I'd rather he use a bow or thrown weapons (quills?) then a gun. The Tech-illiterate negative quality comes to mind. I was thinking some sort of SURGE extra vision modes might be a smart investment considering he won't be using glasses or goggles much.

So how do I build this (or something along these lines) that will be effective?
As house rules that may apply, I get 430 build points, bonus Perception equal to my Intuition, and we cap Hits at double a skill rank (with specilization counting as ranks.)

Here's my most immediate detail questions:
1) Astral Hazing means I'm always in the middle of a Back Ground Count 4. That means I will have to reduce my Magic by 4 (where is this listed?) That means I need to have a Magic Score of 5+ in order to do anything with my Adept right? This may be incredibly limiting, but I'm still liking the concept.

2) I know it's important to be using living weapons when fighting spirits, and I would like this guy to be good at fighting spirits. Do those quils work for this purpose if he is breaking them off and fighting with them? Can thrown quills (is that even possible?) also work this way?

3) Is it possible to make this guy good at Archery too, or do the crazy troll-bow rumors I've heard only extend to cyber-enhanced trolls?

1.) Yes, you are right about magic having to be at least 5 to get SOMETHING out of it. Also take note that this will not only affect you, but EVERY SINGLE MAGICALLY ACTIVE BEING CLOSE TO YOU!
2.) Nope, nothing thrown works. to get him to be a Spirit-Killer, give him Killing Hands and enhance his melee damage somehow. Combined with 1 this will not be so hard, as Spirits get their force lowered by your background count and thus become weaker. Spirits of force 4 and below simply cease to exist at some point.
3.) I think bows have been limited as of SR4.5, but generally you need REALLY high Strength to make Bows viable. And high Strength is kinda hard to get qith Magic.
Also: why make him a DUMB big strong Troll? SR is one of the few Game-Systems, where being strong and resilent does not AUTOMAGICALLY spell dumb as Bricks.
If Power-Focuses would still work like they did in SR3 and simply added to your magic attribute, i would tell you to get one of those. But that would have to be at least Force 5 again to not be destroyed by your very own background count again. This extends to Weapon-Focus as well, so keep that in mind. If you just wanna have him be difficult to touch with magic take arcane arrestor(i think that comes with fomori) and make him a magical adept instead of physical to get counter-spelling.
Even if i don't play SR4 and don't know my way around the rules that good, combat trolls are a hobby of mine ^^

I'm confused by the part about Killing Hands being useful in Astral Combat. Does it let me use Unarmed Attack (including my Agility) for attacking astral foes, (similar to using a Weapon Focus +standard skill) or does it replace the damage of my "astral combat" skill attack? I haven't found this spelled out in the book, FAQ, or even with a quick search on these boards.

Let's say my Troll Adept is trained in unarmed combat and has Killing Hands. He also has Astral Perception. He sees a Spirit on the Astral Plane. Can he make an Unarmed Attack (using Agility & Killing Hands) against he Astral Spirit or does he need to be trained in Astral Combat and use that skill?

Thank you very much for the help.

In previous editions you could do that, but now astral combat is a separate skill. You are better off not taking astral perception at all, and just using killing hands against materialized spirits.

Astral hazing is a very bad idea for any awakened character. You would be condemning him to having only one or two points of Magic that he can use. For someone who is also low-tech, that doesn't leave too many options for being useful in combat - which is this guy's schtick.

Mind that while you'll have 5 magic, you'll only have an effective 1 power point. Likely not worth it, but...you'll be immune to 95% or better of all magic.

Killing Hands basically makes your Hands into a Weapon Focus with which you can hurt Spirits. Else it would be an Attack of willpower or something, which ain't sll that impressive . .
Well, okay, if the spirit has allready lost 4 points of force that could actually work . . and to be completely untouchable by magic, take astral hazing to yxour fomori and STILL make him a magical adept to get counter-spelling. But if you don't manage to initiate fast and often, you will be sorely lacking in most ways. especially being a technological luditte(sp?) And why would you do that anyway? As of SR4, you can use things like Smartlink and DNI without Essence-Loss.

Either go for Astral hazing and be a mundane, or don't and be an adept. Doing both is like having unprotected sex with a thai prostitute. It may seem like a good idea at the time, but you will have ongoing issues causing lasting discomfort.

Oh great, now i have this mental image of a male thai troll prostitute going:"me kill you long time!" x.x

Killing hands and 4X critical strike - murder materialised spirits dead. Alternativly weapon focus - even force one is pretty sweet. Both bypass I.T.N.W.. Past that its mostly taste. I would advise keeping a distance for hazing, its not impossible to make it work but.... Mystic adept with counterspelling, the adept power magic resistance, maybe murky link (unsure how often your foes ritual sorc. your buttocks in your games), high willpower. Some degree of the "Improved reflex" power or buckle to the pressure and get some bioware for that many actions super fun time...

and if you have the points to "spare" take a totem - they are great fun, aid in roleplaying and provide a focus for the GM to hand you astral questing non-sence - Take a look at Bear for a laugh. Berserk - the best "flaw".

Well, okay, i WILL give him points for Style. Hugging Spirits to death with killing hands/subdual combat sounds kinda silly fun ^^

Quick though: fire retardent armor for wrestling those pesky fire elementals

Ranged can work on an adept but you will need to find a weird trick to hurt spirits at range without spellcasting - dual natured arrows would be A) expencive and B) alive

Quick "silly thought":
1) Buy a chest freezer,
2) ward the chest freezer
3) beat unmaterialized spirits into oblivion with thrown chest freezer
4) laugh.

I think we still did not get an Answer as to what would happen if an Adept with Killing hands and one Cyber-Arm used the Grapple-Hand exotic Skill to Rocket Punch spirits several MEters away from him . .

OK thats weird/ awesome/ dumb.

Looking at it I suppose the question is: is it attached to him by some sort of teather? Cause if it is I can't think of anything else that stops it from working off hand.

If its not attached... I'd rule no mostly because otherwise:
1) get a removable cyber-limb,
2) give it to the cybermonster-troll and
3) have him beat people with it.
4) laugh

Yes, the Grapple-Hand is basically a Hand that gets shot out from the Socket, dragging behind a length of steel cable strong enough to pull the user up.
It is intended to be shot out, grip onto something, lock in place and act as a winch for climbing up buildings for example. Kinda like the grapple hook gun, but with a hand instead of the hook. Of course, the power to shoot out the hand this far like that means the hand is a useable weapon.
ROCKET PUNCH! And because it's still attached and not running around like the drone hand, it's still considered a part of him. thus in his aura/magical field. So it SHOULD be able to dish out killing hands/critical strike over 50 meters of distance . . To make matters worse, just make the hand into a Weapon-Focus after implantation.
Of course, that is pretty silly. Watch out for your GM's hardcover Version of any of the Shadowrun books, or he might hit you with one of them.
And because of the humungous reach, the target would be out of the astral hazing, so it would be harder to kill a spirit like that.

The only "in the rules" objection I can form is that you are not using "unarmed" for the attack which I believe killing hand expressly refers to.

That and the classic GM "just go to hell" gut responce this gives me. That and a small smile.

I am so using the rocket punching killing hands troll adept as an antagonist if I ever run a game set in LA.

-paws

Yes, i get some silly ideas from time to time ^^
Further more, make that TWO such Arms and Hover-Feet and use that as a means of transportation.
But then you are dangerously close to the burnout allready <.<

Damn it, this stuff actually makes me want to try SR4 because i can not do this on SR3 <.<