OK guys i am so not looking for crude jokes here. But I was owndering do you think it still exists? I mean you can get all sorts of male and felame enhancemnts. tailored pheromones, etc. Sure you can imagine porno BTL's but looking at the industry today would it survive?

The Harry Dresden novel Blood Rites shows how a run could work around a porn industry site, but the modern, RL rise of the internet has damaged the RL porn industry. Supposedly the professionals are losing ground to 'do it yourself' home moves on you tube. Larry Flynt made a show of asking for a Federal Bail out for the porn industry. Heffner is looking for a buyer/investor for Playboy industries.

So would it survive to 2070? in what form? Print media? BTL's? "classic" flat films? i'm sure fans of the gnere like the idea of BTL but would there be an industry or just do it yourself stuff?

There will always be a porn industry. This is actually discussed (briefly) in Vice.

Porn takes a whole new dimension when you can step into the "actor"'s body.

Ain't that the Truth...

It's hinted at in a lot of places. And don't let the hype fool you: the porn industry has been helped more (net) by the anonymity of the internet than any amount of amateur porn will ever be able to squelch. And with Simsense, much less BTL, you can jump into the body of your favorite star, or GET it from your favorite co-star! The demand to have "her" or "him" would be immense, and I can see a cult following (can we say "Branjelina"?) around some of these top stars. Don't forget, either, the way the internet has helped "out" and mainstream so many different kinks. The sheer variety of human sexual interests is boggling. A lot of it seems pretty tame, but even more of it is pretty "out there", and some of it downright frightening, and I consider myselt neither vanilla nor narrow. Some, despite seeming pretty silly, looks like it would be a lot of fun to try. So if you define "porn" as the broader sex market, then I would say that 2070 "adult entertainment" would be amongst the single largest "small business enterprise" opportunuties left... if Horizon didn't gobble them up!

Don't we have a whole thread devoted to titles?

I came up with a new one based on the Ryumo/Lung slash fiction Chrysalis wrote.

I think there will always be porn. Because porn is safer and easier than sex.

Like, I think I like the idea of sex in the absract, but when it comes down to the details, it's kind of off putting. First, I'd have to find a female who likes me and would be comfortable with the idea of sexual relations with me. Second, there'd probably be all kinds of things we'd have to do to lead up to a sexual encounter in terms of social relations and interactions. Third, I have no idea if she's got sexually transmitted infections including HIV, herpes, Hepatitis B, or whatever, and there's really no way you could be sure aside from putting her on a moon base for months with no other human beings in the vicinity and then running all your tests. Fourth, once you get down to actually performing the sex act, there's all kinds of considerations you must keep in mind, you must maintain a high level of observance, and you must have refined skills, as articulated in http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82133 and all those thoughts and anxieties floating around in the head basically make it more difficult to perform sexually; it can effectively create performance anxiety.

So basically, you kind of begin to think, why even screw around with all that crap, when you could just load up some porn? So much simpler, and so much more conducive to peace of mind instead of stress.

I think porn in all forms will always exist, whether we're talking about sexy marble Rodin sculptures with bondage themes, or .avi files floating around on the internet.

The internet hasn't quite killed the good (questionably) ol' porn rag yet. It may by 2070, but I think that gives some basis for an argument that standard moving pictures, or trideo, will be around. Simsense porn too, of course, but even still images will probably be around. Actually, with 2070 photo and video editing technology it may all be digital, and there might even be sites/programs that let you more or less make your own. Personally, I think the personal touch of simsense will bring back a kind of porn stardom. Actually, it can be even better. You can be a simsense pornstar and no one will know your face, just how it feels to be in your skin.

As for kinks, the sixth world can only make these more impressive. Sasquatch/Troll/Dunkelzahn porn with possession, astral projection, and drain? Or the simpler sex shoes for astral observers? That's something the Matrix can't duplicate, and that might be enough to keep a niche live-action market alive.

Then, of course, there's magic. Illusions can give you literally any porn you can conceive of, or at least any you can explain to a mage and pay for.

San Fernando still cops a mention in Corporate Enclaves (following what Kerenshara said).

I am stinging to see Vice.

- J.

Why do you you think that people's interest in sex would diminish in the future - when there are even more options than there are now [plus new ones we can't even understand at the moment] ??

Doing a quick google search leads to this page of statistics.

Although it seems to relate to 2006 data, comments on the page like "The pornography industry is larger than the revenues of the top technology companies combined: Microsoft, Google, Amazon, eBay, Yahoo!, Apple, Netflix and EarthLink" and "US porn revenue exceeds the combined revenues of ABC, CBS, and NBC" indicate the global porn industry is very healthy.

If you read about the Larry Flint asking for a bailout, you'll read how it's considered ironic in a "if all these other industries are asking for money, so will we" kind of way - not really because of revenue loss.

From what I gather, revenue from the porn industry is one of those things few governments want to admit to - sex being one of those things a government can't been seen to support [even though it generates massive amounts in tax revenue. But supporting the arms industry which kills millions of people and most non-military people condemn seems to be ok].

Also, I remember reading about how porn and genealogy were the driving forces for the internet, and how porn was the deciding factor in the VHS vs Betamax tape wars.

There's such a thing as BTLs and you need to ask if there's porn?

As long as there are ugly people in the world, where cumming on Nadja Daviar (eww, but then there Sarah Palin porn sites out there) is only a commlink code away, there will be porn.

Most of the "porn industry" (read the old porn makers) complain because you used to have to get expensive cameras, good starlets, and a porn star who can achieve wood. Nowadays you can just skip all that go to any electronics shop, pick up a quality camera and do gonzo shooting in Indonesia, sell the movies to an online site and most of your fun and video camera are covered.

Porn studios used to have the power over who makes it big or small. Now with the price of a webcam and a website you can have your own site, spread images through viral marketing and do some porn. Alternatively you can also use a service which will do everything for you and even photoshop your professionally taken images to make you that 10.

The big complaint I hear from the studios is that you have to go through so much utter shit to find the good stuff that they can then put on DVD.

DARPA may have invented the internet, but porn built it, make no mistake. Porn does not follow new media, the new media follows porn. Porn embraced VHS before any of the mainstream studios and it soared while Betamax died. Porn embraced Blu-Ray and now HD-DVD is dead. Where the porn goes, everyone follows.

Without porn, there would be no internet, it would just be a passing fad for tech geeks. Without porn, very few people would own home computers, seeing them as useful only for business. E-mail would still be a curiosity and message boards would be the domain of academics.

In the future, this will not change. The rise of Simsense and the Matrix will be entirely due to porn. The ASIST standard used by every simsense device was most likely one of many competing formats, which won out solely because of support from porn studios.

We run Miami as having a decent adult simsense and trideo industry, which generates quite a few runs.

Am I the only one that pictures Daviar as more Shami Chakrabati than Scarlett Johansson?

I think that hyzmarca is spot on. However, the combination of BTLs and virtual sex would certainly alter the scene. The cottage industry that porn has turned into today might shift back to higher end producers, not sure about that one.

In SR3, the adult INDUSTRY (notice, Snow Fox is not talking about porn, but about getting actually paid to produce porn) would still exist - technology in SR3 is not much of an enabler for most people, but rather a way to help the corps sell their products better. Paid porn exists because the corps have a marketing budget to make sure you know their porn is the better porn.

In SR4, the adult industry can only survive if it gravitates towards areas which require money or resources to get. The bulk will be very, very high-quality BTLs/sims, since a rig is pretty pricey. The remainder is weird stuff; centaur sex in the Himalayas sort of thing. Legal kiddie porn/snuff films (because they have documents to prove it's all artificially created), sort of 'choose your own adventure' porn movies. Stuff like that. Most normal, 'straight' porn will be taken up by regular Joes with a tridcorder.

Benraku parlors with personafix chips (Kind of like dollhouse but creepier), BTL's, Magical illusions, simsense both hot and cold, camera drones, trideo.

Are you kidding? Is this a joke thread? Seriously, the adult entertainment industry would not only survive, it would be fraggin thriving!! Strip clubs with AR overlays and VIP rooms with all kinds of freaky shit (Hell, Matrix Strip Clubs!) As long as people are interested in watching people have sex then there will be adult entertainment. In 2070, you can have a magician set you up with all sorts of kinky shit, simsense and magic let you be your favorite porn star and get screwed by you favorite star. You can go to benraku parlors and have sex with any celebrity you want. Well, maybe not but close enough that you won't notice since cosmetic surgery is top-notch and personafix chips make them act just like the real thing.

Porn is not going anywhere and as someone said upthread, porn doesn't follow media, media follows porn. Every medium we use to enjoy entertainment has been brought in by porn. VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, Interactive software, even do-it yourself porn was pushed by the porn industry.

Hell, the word simsense star always meant "Futuristic porn star" to me anyway. I know they use it for action movies and the such but come on, simsense had to be embraced by the porn industry as soon as it was safe. Hell, probably before that. People are always gonna pay for sex and pay for people to have sex on camera and pay people to sell amateur porn to studios. This is like asking if prostitution is ever going to die out. Right, like the world's oldest profession suddenly just gives up the ghost.

Cavemen scratched dirty pictures into the ground with sticks, the Dutch Masters created private stroke paintings for aristocrats, Civil War soldiers received care packages including crude erotica etched in charcoal (true story), and college freshmen still beat it into used socks and stick them under their mattresses.

The pornography industry in SoCal alone makes more money than Hollywood and Bollywood combined and innovated SSL credit card transactions along with the various media Darkeus and others mentioned.

So, yeah, I don't think the porn industry is going anywhere anytime soon. While BTLs and bunraku parlors may make the experience more "real", along with legal simsense, there will always be those who don't want to go that far. Just as how a modern porn connoisseur isn't necessarily going to run out and hire a hooker. Naturally there will be a market to cater to these people.


I can only recall one illustration of Daviar. She was the dark-haired elf in the Draco Foundation group shot from Dragons of the Sixth World. While I think Shami is definitely closer than Scarlett, I picture her more like Ukranian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. Only as a brunette. Classically attractive, Eastern European, but of indeterminate age.

This calls for a game story. It's not dirty, but it's not clean either.

Our first run after returning to Shadowrun from a long break. Our GM sets us up a job via his stock name for the mobile rave scene that serves as our meeting place ("The"...on second hand, you don't want to know the name). We have to kill this Elf who's living in upscale housing, it was suggested we make him suffer, and bring back his head. Sick, yeah, but we regularly sell corpses of people who come after us to the street docs for cred and the occasional second hand cyberware. So many street shamans...but I digress. We make our way into the blaggers house and have the troll use his shock gloves on him for a while. After having the pull the troll back a couple times because he was turning the guy to pulp (Physical damage with shock gloves still does a ton of physical damage), we load him with roomsweeper and a few cuts for good measure. Our Street Sam takes off the head while my mage proceeds to be sick out in the hall.
We bring the head back to the Johnson, and he proceeds to connect a wire into a datajack on the target's head, he leans back and starts getting what looks like shivvers and a smile across his face. He unhooks and looks at us across the table, giving us a disgustingly satisfied look and says "You're Good".

At which point we learned we'd gained a point in Notoriety for appearing in a snuff BTL.

All this and no mention of the orgy spell.

Always imagined her looking more like Cathrine Zeta Jones personally.

Could have sworn there was mention of porn in various books, and what we consider porn today is on the trid and in the movies and noone really bats an eye.

Sounds like Transmetropolitan.

thanks for the input guys. yeah I know faux sex will still be out there, think of the Brad Paisley song "I'm so much cooler on line" but this is really what I was thinking of, the hard core industry. (no pun intended.)

CalHots. Very, very realistic—and addictive—pornography produced primarily in LA. Illegal almost everywhere except LA. Very popular... (and who produces most of these?)

Does anyone remember that film Boxing Helena?

Catalyst Porn Labs?

Damn you.

-paws

Why the frown? Kerenshara's rather fond of that... well, the slightly more personal Orgasm anyhow. You're under cover and that creepy troll just WILL NOT QUIT! So take him aside, stroke his cheek while looking in his eyes, and he makes a mess in his shorts and leaves you alone, totally spent. The fact that you wanted to break his face for laying a hand on your thigh notwithstanding because that persona would never do that, and it's nowhere near as disgusting as actually DOING anything with him. Or you could use it to make it LOOK like you did if that's more in-character. Or the mark you're screwing information out of couldn't stimulate the economy of his local StufferShack with a full-up Ebony Credstick, much less you in his bed, so you just encourage him along to a quicker end (he could at least have brushed his teeth) and he's so pleased he just opens right up to you.

Orgasm, Orgy... Both VERY good spells, lots of utility there...

Well imagine that. There was even some adult entertainment in this thread.

Entertainment? I was being SERIOUS!

Well, ok, the TOPIC and suggestions were serious, but the presentation WAS crafted to get a chuckle. Glad it worked for somebody.

To keep htis on topic and not shut down that actually could be a very good use of spells in the industry. remeber early on I sited the Harry Dresden adventure but there he was just looking for an attacker, in effect being a body guard, but the idea of spells could really add to the professional industry. there are already spells to tailor clothing and freshen looks and stuff so why not go further.
"bob we need another take."
"Gimme a few minutes will ya?"
There are references to spells like that in the Princess Meredeth serries by Hamilton, though her b/f's finally complain it hurts when she restores them without a pause but in an industry, they won't care. It could also addto commentary "are htose /that- real/cyber or CGI?" A spell used in the insdustry would take away the 'she's faking it' elements of criitque. As a spell for uses, and there's a similar thing in the first season of GitS, the episode "Casheye" I'd say it is a mental manipulation and it also causes a level of stun damage, think about it the better it is the more your worn out, with an equal level having to be resisted by the caster.

The mage in my campaign has a side job of casting Trid-Entertainment for SimSense Porn productions, as well as summoning spirits, and using magic for other special effects. He was once the victim of a forced extraction/recruitment by a rival simsense corp.

I imagine that shapechanging would pop up often in adult entertainment. The male or female lead "disguising" themselves for whatever plot reason. And non-famous character actors taking on different roles. Sure, magic could be used, but it'd be cheaper and more consistant to find & train a good actor/actress, then upgrade them up with the False Front (or hinted Sexmorph) bioware and a full-sim recording rig. It would be especially more economical for the supporting/character roles if they are all played by a only a few talented people with known very good (or better) emotive responses, like how a relatively small group of voice artists do nearly all of the current voiceover work across multiple media. But it could prove weird (by 2009 standards anyway) for one person to be up for the "Best Supporting Actor" and "Actress" awards (or whatever they're called in the adult industry).

Even better than P2.0, I expect the next big thing will be reality star full-sim. Take a star, male or female, say a vapid blond(e) from a billionaire family with no real talent except an uncanny knack for staying in the media spotlight. 80% of her fans would follow him/her through P2.0 with the occassional bonus special (part of their monthly fee) full-sim of a couple hours of highlights from his/her "real life." 18% could afford even more access, with full-sim of him/her on interview shows, public appearances, behind the scenes on her latest film set, the occasional exclusive restaurant meal or club outing, and a couple hours a week of his/her personal life. The top 2% of identity junkies could pay for full access, 4-8hrs of full-sim per day, including his/her most intimate experiences, all given only a basic quick same-day editing to crop out anything unpalatable to most fans and then a quick pass to level out the sensory tracks. Bam -- a major cash cow for the studio, and a far less risky gamble than some conventional big-budget 2 hr movie. As depressing as the Sixth World would be, almost everyone would pay for the escape, especially when they would never have the means and access to everything the star would.

Yeah, you could participate in "The Real Housewives Of...". Groan.

Hmmmm... gotta see if we can get that one in somewhere... ah, yes. Too bad your name doesn't lend itself to the image of a vapid blonde...

A little off-topic but reminds me of a certain story, about stupid things runners do, that was in old Blackjack's page.

This team is hired to extract a certain scientist. Through legwork they learn he likes to dress up as a girl and hit the streets every once in a while, so they decide to stop by, get him in the car and do the job. They choose the Samurai to do it, so he's driving and picks up the scientist. After a few blocks of driving, in deep basso voice, behind long eyelashes and red lipstick he says to the Sammy: "Have you ever gotten a blowjob while driving, honey? Its... heaven." And he goes down, unzips the driver's pants and starts to do it. For once, the fearless Samurai is scared out of his wits and takes his taser, jolting the poor doctor in the neck... Spasms make the doctor clench his jaws hard, and the jolt gets the Samurai too. Obviously they crash and the authorities find two burned down bodies that were having intercourse in a car before death. One has a taser in his hands... What he lacks is obvious.

Gave me laughter to this day.

**Edit: I just noticed how many views this thread has with respect to others that were made a long time before. Maybe it has to do with the "Audlt industry" on it, maybe for any other reason. However it certainly gives me a reference as to what sells and what doesn't, just by adding the magic words -in this case through inference-: "Adult", "industry" or simpler: "Pr0n".

Rats, I almost got my persona in print. Oh well... I spent nearly 1/2 hour trying to come up with puns & variation on Ms. Hilton's name for that.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think I was also inspired about that from a vague recollection of a comic (by Warren Ellis?) where an idoru/idol-type star is being stalked by a group of her fans who have all had plastic surgery to look like her.

This just made me think about porn drones. Think about the possibilities of non-lethal warfare.

There's a lot of that in GitS but they are usually in the back ground, except for the episode "Casheye" where there's a break in at a party where rich weirdos are hsowing off their toys and "Android and I" where a geek is causing all the other models of his 'g/f' to suicide so he'll have the only one.

Yeah Ithink the 'adult entertainment' tag has caught people's eyes but since I'm not looking for salaciuous details, they drift off. But I do like the idea of the orgasm spell-hey who need men now- BUT I could see it as developed for the industry and then translated to runs.

Replace the stuff in the money shot magazine with OC spray.

You know, I saw this and I wound up going off in a TOTALY diferent direction. I mean, knowing governments for what they are, how long do you think it would take for them to make THAT particular "kink" illegal, even if the ... other participant is really a shape changed (meta)human? Sorry, but I just had to share. I hope more people get a chuckle than get physically ill.


Well, in theory, with a little high-level sorcery and in-depth knowledge of arcana you COULD trick the female body into self-fertilization and they you really COULD take the man out of the picture for good. Even select for female-only zygotes, right? Now you have a (theoretical) way to bring the male fantasy of an all-female amazon world to reality, right? So you're the last man in that society and... *groans* Yeah, I can just see that now.

More interestingly though, what if some enterprising awakened female scientist (KAM's neice, perhaps?) comes up with the actual spell formula and goes public. How many runs can you think of to get their hands on that formula and the creator before the genie is seriously out of the bottle? Let's see... N.O.W. (or their decendant) to make it available generally; religious groups to destroy the knowledge; Gay-rights activitsts (not much on their plight in the fluff, if you notice); Every stripe of person with a grudge against the opposite sex. Can you imagine the competing shadowruns? How many people would there be going after her at once? I am reminded of the old Peter Sellers Pink Panther movie where over one hundred of the world's top assassins are trying to kill Jacques Clusteau all at once at a carnival. You know, that might even make an interesting module, for the humor value if nothing else... assuming you survive the crossfire.

For shifters in a kink movie it's easy to get round any beastiality laws if both actors really are shifters, say 2 wolf shifters, but only one changes. They're the same speciaes so it's not illegal, unless someone claims the actors are something odd like 'sheep shifters' and you never see the ewe as 'human.'

The orgasm spell in the industry could have been developed to help a beuatiful but nervous starlet give a 'realistic' performance. After all unless the tape is altered, driving up production costs, you can't fake it on sim sense. Cheaper to provide an outside source of feeling than hope the boys in editing can change it.

On a run it can be used to seduce a mark on a run, but also a good spell for a seduction shaman- "Man I can't get enough of him. He's like no other guy i know. Just a caress of his hand and I feel like i'm gonig to ..well...you know. God I'll do anything he asks as long a he keeps looking at me"

I had meant the Critterform spell, but it's the same idea.


I saw it as coming out of the shadows myself for the above reason, or perhaps created by a geeky mage intent on improving his love life? Or some Don Juan or a cruel Black Widdow seeking to take her revenge on men. But the second paragraph IS my favorite implementation, when I'm not using it to distract a guard... at a really low force, it could just make me irresistable and incline him to be determined to "chat me up", distracting him from the guys who walked in wearing company uniforms and waving a cheerful greeting...

guys are easy to...distract with out magic. lean forward, take a deep breath. Unless very strong willed. BUt i think spells like this come out of industries, no pun intended, and then get adapted by runners who think- boy that could be useful...

Weaaallllll... ok, your point(s) are taken. I'm still not sure I entirely buy the last part, but WHOEVER originally penned the formula, 'runners like you and me will find all kinds of uses for them.

For why a spell would come into existance i try and think why would it occure to someone to make it.
The average runner does not think of an orgasm spell. the various alter/control emotion manipulation spells do the job, so what sort of business would actually need a sex spell?

Like the spells to fix appearance/hair/cloths i assuem were created by the fashino industry or quick change/repeairs at fashion shows

I still think some geek at MIT&T, CIT&T or Texas A&M&M would be as likely to come up with it as the adult entertainment industry, even accepting the Sim side for a nervous new actress; In fact, I see THEM grabbing the idea and running with it like they did DVD or will likely Sim when it first appears as a viable technology. Have you ever SEEN the kind of pranks and applied ideas that come out of those three universities? When those people say "Hey, I've got a GREAT idea!" rational people RUN; their counterparts listen avidly then actively aid and abet them in their creation. And their idea of a sense of humor is downright scarry, even to those in the law enforcement community (whose sense of humor usually tends to start at "warped" by civillian definintions and spirals rapidly outward from there).

Unfortunately, I have a legitimate disagreement with you on the later example. For those spells to be meaningful (the fashion spell in particular) it would require "duplication" of a design and a high number of successes to achieve. No designer is going to want to chance that. It is MUCH more useful in the world of covert operations, be they government, military or "shadow". And the hair and makeup is as much a statement as the clothing in many cases. The final point is that you would want to make it clear ANYBODY with the time and money can be made to have this look: it's a sales pitch, pure and simple. If you let the idea creep in that you need magic to pull it off, then you've already lost.

I follow the logic but I htink you're giving the geek too much credit. They would come up with a seduction spell. something like a control emotions to get the girl, but would then give the climax...naturally, not knowing any better.
Maybe the sim exec hears about that and see''s the application and sup's up the sedcution spell to full orgasm.