Levels of licenses

This is something that I have been thinking of quite a bit. This all winds back to CP2020 and me coming up with a tiered learning method similar to what the British Army uses.

While I never did do more than on a concept level, I did discover a re-use for the concept.

One of the primary issues I have is with licenses and lack of resolution either the GM rules them as being too general or then demands a license for everything.

However, let's look at real-life, even a drivers license does not give you the right to drive anything, but what is in that vehicle classification. A basic drivers license (depending on the country of course) does not give you a motorcycle license, truck license, or a bus license.

The purpose of a license is to indicate a qualification in a skill which that person can practice. Often enough licenses such as these also demand regular maintenance.

Now, skills are nebulous, but tiered, allowing for degrees of resolution. The level of resolution needed for games is quite coarse. Unless your game specifically revolves around accruing a wide collection of skills (e.g. pilot truck vs pilot car), then that coarseness is acceptable.

What I would like to therefore propose is that licenses can be connected to skills. A license ground vehicles would allow you to drive a ground vehicle. But we also add to it the tiered method, this would indicate that a license corresponds to a skill or a group of skills learned.

This would mean that a license 1 (ground vehicles), may only encompass cars and bikes, while a license 3 (ground vehicles) could also include trucks and buses.

This would also mean that license levels 5&6 can be used to indicate a well rounded skill set. Some of the top world class stunt drivers who have driven nearly every type of vehicle would thus fall into the license 6 (ground vehicles) range.

This would in no way retract the game, but would indicate level of competency, and add a degree of causality with licenses.

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A separate issue but attached is that of fake licenses. I would propose that the forged license part be folded back into the fake SIN. This is because I envision the SIN as the nexus of all information about a person including licenses.

Secondly licenses are no longer physical entities, but electronic, they are then more equivalent to diplomas than corresponding physical entities. Your drivers license of the 20th century is not your ID; for that is the responsibility of the SIN in the sixth world.

The issue of license then is simply a question of right of authorisation and not of validity. The higher rating of the license the more great the latitude in the authorisation to carry/collect/operate that device/application/vehicle/equipment.

A security check would therefore be roll of cinematic suspense on whether or not further questions are elicited by security over authorisation.

IMO...

SIN, is a routing number that links all of the various information about an individual scattered across the matrix.

In my SR games, everything is electronic and on your credstick.

I came up with a system that the combined forgeries of various documents helped determine the quality of the forged SIN. There are basic documents that have to be included, Birth Certificate, Tax Number (Government tax records/Social Security/etc..), and Corp or Government ID (sometimes both or just one depending on the backstory). Put together a table for all of the licenses that I could think up, forgery TN's, legal cost, forgery cost, forgery time (for the DYI types).

Strictly speaking, the rating of the license (assuming it's fake) indicates how likely it is to be popped in a check of the license's validity. Think of it like when the nice officer on the side of the road asks you politely for your "driver's license and registration, please". Your tags say 10/2010, but when they run them, it comes up as 5/2009 and expired. Now you also probably have to do some explaining. The license came up suspended because you didn't pay a fine. And the SiN you gave from your comlink came up with a criminal arrest warrant. Your day just got a lot worse.

In game terms, it's a faked SiN, a fake license to operate non-motorcycle ground vehicles, and fake "license" to operate a vahicle on the road: the plates/registration. Each has a chance to come up wrong in their own respective checks and databases. And that's based on exactly how the modern day Police handle it.

Good point Kerenshara.

The only reason that I went the route of the quality of multiple forgeries to determine the SIN quality is to streamline the process. Four players, each with a Drivers License, Gun Permit, one with a mage permit, 4x Security Permits, etc., after a bit it just gets to be too much. My own experience with this is that it gives GM's an adequate PC expense (to soak up all that extra nuyen...right) allows the players to create some interesting Legends for their characters.

Strictly speaking you are absolutely right, it is not representative of how things work in the RL.

Care for a suggestion? It's simple, and will help you quite a bit if you can make it work.

You know those 4x3 toploaders they sell at your FLGS (Friendly Local Game Store) for cards? Print up some simple cards on normal paper for each type of license and have your players record the data on them (as in, which SiN the ID is tagged to, because if the SiN is burned, so are all the licenses). That way, they can keep all the "active" ones per the SiN they are using at that moment handy and pass them to you whenever you need. It also helps the players keep track of all the nonsense inherent. Speaking as somebody with seventeen personae on their current character, I know all about the bookkeeping nightmare involved. I spent something like 15%+ of my starting nuyen on those SiNs and licenses and comlinks. (Actually portraying somebody's easier when the "decoy" 'link most runners carry is loaded with JUST that persona's info.)

I hadn't thought of that, pretty cool idea. Considering how much effort goes into it, it does seem a shame not to go ahead and make the roles.

I print out business cards with worthwhile items that the characters might find on 'very sleepy' npcs or in locations. Whoever grabs it gets the card and that way they can divy it up without a lot of hassle.

Precisely the same idea, but these are large enough to put a lot of info on, and you can WRITE on them with overhead pens, then just wipe them off. In the slightly larger 3x5 version of the top-loaders, I was able to get just about all relevant combat and movement information (including an initiative track, damage track, edge tracker, initiative pass marker, perception and the "non-skill" tests) on a front and back of one card. That's right: a character sheet on a 3x5 card that's easy to use, with spaces for movement calculation. Amazing what you can do in Word. Now if only I could convert the bleeding thing to a PDF.

PDFCreator... I htink it is free on the net... but not sure...

Something that might help. Word can still export to HTML, right?

If you want I could convert your Word doc into a PDF, I have Acrobat 9, you can send it to bob@boblordofevil.net.

Microsoft office has a function which will convert directly to pdf.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en

Of course, it only works for Office 2007 or Later

I am using 2003 because I consider 2007 to be right up there with Vista.

What I want is to lock the descriptive cells and leave the "data" cells open, with "fit" set to squish the text if you are wordy.

It's not finished - I have some things I still am not satisfied with but if you like, I will send you the current draft version. I have one for decking that's very rough, and want to make an awakened one. Then I want weapons, accessories, magazines, and licenses/SiNs. It's something of a hobby of mine.

Regarding print to pdf, I like dopdf 6.

Chrys, I find your premise flawed. License are not required for skills. I can know how to drive and not have a license. Licenses are tied to the use of dangerous items. A car can easily cause untold carnage because of it's mass and speed. Firearms require permits for obvious reasons. Etc.

Hi Backgammon,

You're the first one to actually respond to my post.

My major issue is that of two sides:

Any kind of structured learning environment or skill environment demands certifications as you progress. You need to graduate from one level to another, there are many paths, but that is dependent on the goal. A person who wishes to become an underwater welder needs to have certifications in both underwater training and welding to be able to gain a qualification in underwater welding, you can't just jump to the head of the class. You will also have tests to maintain your skills.

These tests give you certifications.

Certifications can lead to licenses, but are not licenses themselves.

Obviously with the skills diving and welding you can deal with the whole process. No underwater police officer is going to stop you and see if you are qualified to operate an arc welder underwater or operate a diving suit. The problem comes when you are supposed to be hired for the job and your employer (Mr Johnson) wants to see your bonafides and you aren't some clown with more talk then sense.


My issue is really what is a license? Is a drivers license a license? Is a hunting permit a license? Is an organ donor card a license? Or does a license mean like a license plate? Who issues licenses and what kinds?


This leads me to the question: If I am driving in Seattle in a car with obvious cyber and my gun collection, what licenses do I need? Does every type of cyber, and weapon (including the car) need a license? Is my licenses still valid if I am in NAN? How about in Libya?

It's a whole nebulous area for me and maybe I am a stupid bimbo, but I am having a hard time getting my head around it.

Attached to licenses is then what is a SIN? There are no physical ID cards in the 6th world. What does one look like? Can you apply for a legal one? How does that process go about?

OK, I thought I was answering your OP, but seeing your continuation here, I guess I see what I left out by focusing in Piloting: Ground Vehicle since we're all so familiar with it.

Essentially, those licenses aren't "policed" like driving on the road, but before you are hired for any (legitimate) work, they are going to run your SiN to verify the presence of the correct licenses to do the work in question, and they will also cover themselves (don't you just HATE indemnity insurance?) they will then contact the apropriate agency to VERIFY those licenses are still in force and that there are no outstanding demeanors or limits on your work. So, say you've been blackballed for getting sexually involved with the Guild's offspring, and you want to keep working. You HAVE the skills to be a master underwater welder: you just need to get in the door. So you get a new SiN, and have somebody stuff the needed licenses and certifications (a cert and a license, from a game mechanic perspective in this case would be indistinguishable), and I would hope your SiN was good enough to include a solid work history. Maybe even have somebody who can call them back with details if they're REALLY thorough. But likely they will settle for the license and SiN checks.

Now, on your other question, the way I read the RAW, you DO need a separate license for each and every piece of gear you have that has an R behind it availability. That would include modifications to your weapons, vehicle and armor. It means a license to dispense NarcoJet if you have capsules loaded with it. If you're a genuine SiNner, then you just need to go through the hoops and pay a fee (probably not more than 50¥) and you have a completely legit set of permissions. All the usual downsides apply of course. But if you're SiNless (or hiding your true identity) somebody has to obtain those licenses fraudulently for you, and that's why they have a rating attached. In theory, if you're willing to take a chance on burning the core SiN in question, you could apply for GENUINE licenses with that SiN and hope for the best, but then it's just the SiN that might trip you up. Think of it like an illegal immigrant that goes with their fake papers and gets a totally legit drivers license.

Now, do I (or anybody in my group) play with licenses that way? Drek no! We chose to do it as an operator's license to drive, a permit to carry otherwise legal (R or below) weapons concealed. Other things we are mostly hand waving for a very good (4+) SiN because they are generally pretty trivial. But as I said, that's house, not RAW.

Oh, as an extra thought, a Visa (the imigration type, not the card) would also be a license if you think about it. You're targeting a single (set of) databank for all intents and purposes: imigration and border control of the territory in question.

Did I actually answer the OP that time, or did I still miss the mark?

I believe the rules purposely leave it open for GMs to make their own calls. Do you get a Firearms permit, do you get a Pistol permit or do you get an Ares Predator permit? So as that's left to each GM, I can't give a definitive answer. My thought would be, in general, to strike something between the PC having to spend tons of cash to get bazillion permits versus getting a single permit that covers everything.

As a rule, though, I would say that your Permit MAY be valid outside the jurisdiction of issuance. For example, if you have a ARES permit, it's possible that UCAS has a deal with Ares to honor their permits. Though possible an Ares Firearms permit won't get you anywhere within Renraku. There's nothing in the rules about jurisdiction of Permit, but it makes sense.

Another good example is Manhattan. Manhattan has permits for crazy ass shit like BTLs, drugs, guns, prostitution, etc. But it's not cause you have a narcotics permit in Manhattan that you can (legally) do drugs in Seattle. Manhattan is a good example of very restricted permit jurisdiction.



Well a SIN is probably a complex object stored on a computer, which a string numerical identifier for human-usage purposes. Do poeple actually know their SIN numbers? Probably not. I don'T know how familiar with databases and computer you are, but your SIN is just the primary key for the record that is you. It uniquely identifies you. So being uniquely identified, you can then attach permits to that SIN, which is just another way of saying YOU have a permit.

I'm sure you can apply for a SIN. There are canon references to it. But usually, you'll only get one if there's something in it for the governement - i.e, you will pay taxes and be a productive member of society. As everyone (worthwhile) gets one a birth, the question is how come you have to apply for one? Why don't you have one already? Been living in the fringes, have we? Do we intend to pay our taxes, hmmm?

But yeah, otherwise, you can get one. It's just an identifier. I don't know if your country has something like that, but in Canada we have the same thing. You go apply at a governement office, and they give you a card with a number. The card is not important - what's important is that you now have a unique identifier in the system.

Overall, I agree with Backgammon, my take goes like this...

A concealed weapons permit, means that you have gone through a training course and demonstrated enough knowledge, good judgement, and passed a background check that you qualify for the permit. The pistols that you are going to be carrying are listed on the permit.

When you get a driver's license you are not just licensed for one vehicle (I know, duh!), however if the vehicle is different enough (say, motorcycle) you do have to pass a specialized test to show that you can operate it safely.

A Hunting Permit, allows you to go hunting for a specific game animal during the hunting season for the year that the license was issued.

Your licenses, with exception of your International Driver's License, is NOT valid from country to country. Now, an interesting exception to this would be licenses issued by AA and AAA Corps. These corps have facilities scattered throughout the world and have been given the authority to protect personnel and property (i.e. corp suits get guns outside of corp facilities).