To me it seems incredibly too powerful:

So a magic with Magic 6 walks into a bar, and I have two sweet characters who have 1 and 2 willpower respectfully.

So he uses manaball, overcasts it at 12, so does this mean it deals 12 plus his net hits, and he has to resist 6 + 3 P damage as a drain?

Basically the both die no matter what.

Force/2+2 for Manaball... so drain is 6+2=8p
and yes, they are both probably dead (assuming only a single net success, a body of 6 would still give you damage in overflow, and they would be dying, but not quite dead)... Yes magic is extremely powerful...

Magic is not overpowering, as you could achieve similar results through mundane methods at significantly reduced cost, & without causing damage to yourself.

Direct spells in particular, though, I do think are overpowered, but not by a significant amount. The optional fix in SR4A, however, is fucking retarded.

I suggest using Intuition + Counterspelling to 'dodge' a Direct Combat spell, followed by Body (for Physical) or Willpower (for Mana) + Astral Armor to resist the damage.

alternately, someone could just lob a few frag grenades in there, requiring very little expenditure of nuyen and no karma. this would also likely kill both targets (especially if you get chunky salsa into effect)

To me it seems incredibly too powerful:

So a sammie with an Ares Alpha with tricked-out recoil compensation walks into a bar, and I have two sweet characters who have 1 and 2 body and 1 and 2 reaction respectfully.

So he fires two narrow bursts, so does this mean it deals 9 plus his net hits?

Basically they both die no matter what.



Shadowrun is a lethal game, where being caught flatfooted by someone as powerful as the average runner results in death more often than not. Force: 12 overcast manabolts are pretty rare - that's some serious physical damage that the mage is resisting himself, and it could still be all for nothing - if he rolls badly, and the two targets have a combination of high Willpower, Edge, and counterspelling, then he could be the only one affected by that spell. Personally, I wouldn't consider two characters with a 1 and a 2 Willpower to be "sweet" - I would consider them two characters with an extreme vulnerability. A low Willpower not only impedes your ability to resist mana spells, but also your ability to soak stun damage, to resist some social skills, and to resist things like psychotropic programs and addictions.

I have seen this houserule from time to time, heck, even one of the guys in our group wishes it was this way...

Ditto... Grenades are a great equalizer...

Gernades solve alot of problems on the street. I see your issue with magic.. i hate the whole mages roll skill+magic and your resist with willpower+ a skill that only mages have!

That is not completely true: Magic Resistance does almost the same as Counterspelling for the mundane, and it is hardly more expensive. Only the Adept get hosed, as they have access to none.

That, plus one mage is enough to protect the whole team.

The adept has Magic resistance.

One mage can only protect the team once! If he get preoccupied with something or something seperates you from the part or blocks your LoS.

You're right.

What do you mean? Declaring spell protection is a Free Action and lasts until the mage decides to stop it, no matter how many spells it blocks. As long as the mage can see you, you are covered.

I think I'd prefer Edge + Counterspelling for the "dodge" portion of this.

-paws