So our gaming group embarked on the ever dangerous track of beginning a Ghost Cartels Campaign this past Sunday night. Those of you who have read the sourcebook know that the PCs will encounter heavy resistance and serious NPC "mojo." There is a good chance PCs will die, no matter how nice of a GM you are (I tend to fall in this category for various reasons, having only killed one player character in over a dozen sessions).
SR 4.0 states that players are able to burn edge to survive a incident which would result in their demise. Now some of the player characters in the story have edge points over 3 or 4. As a GM who often times sacrifices killing blows for the sake of a story, and is often shy to pull a trigger (Personal philosophy = that the PCs are there to have fun. Especially the casual player. They are there to escape from the stresses of the real world, and as a result are looking for an atmosphere where they could stick it to the man, vent frustrations, have fun, and leave behind their problems at home. Getting shot in the head, or having a character die adds some stress, especially if it's a character they have a lot of passion for. End rant). It's kind of silly in my opinion to have a character who has more lives then a neutered cat.
To the fellow lurkers and posters on dumpshock, what are house rules that have been employed or are current in practice which replace the burn one edge to save a life rule? I am thinking about three scenarios.
1. Use the Primer Runner rule. If a player wants to survive a death blow, they burn all of their edge and are only allowed to do this once in their runner's career.
2. Dead is dead. You can't burn edge to save a PC's life.
3. Buring two edge points instead of one.
Ghost Cartels. Still won't be gunning for people, but if the squishy mage, hacker, technomancer, or adapt takes a 15P pistol shot from a yakuza assassin or a sniper shot from a random FBI agent. They are going down.
Full Version: Save a PC
Umm I don't see that at all.
I'm running Ghost Cartels right now and I don't see the fatality aspect to the same degree at all. The game doesn't really step up a notch to become dangerous until half way through Track 1 and the scenes where the runners are in real danger are rare indeed. There's probably only a handful of scenes in the campaign where I would say that death is a very real possibility. Many of which are obviously more for dramatic effect, as they're obviously intended to somehow survive.
I use the rules and Edge "as is" in this regard. I just use a gentlemen's agreement when it comes to insta-death attacks like snipers. I tell the PCs whatever they use, I'll use. That's enough to keep them thinking.
- J.
I'm running Ghost Cartels right now and I don't see the fatality aspect to the same degree at all. The game doesn't really step up a notch to become dangerous until half way through Track 1 and the scenes where the runners are in real danger are rare indeed. There's probably only a handful of scenes in the campaign where I would say that death is a very real possibility. Many of which are obviously more for dramatic effect, as they're obviously intended to somehow survive.
[ Spoiler ]
I use the rules and Edge "as is" in this regard. I just use a gentlemen's agreement when it comes to insta-death attacks like snipers. I tell the PCs whatever they use, I'll use. That's enough to keep them thinking.
- J.
QUOTE (SincereAgape @ Jun 9 2009, 01:19 PM) 
SR 4.0 states that players are able to burn edge to survive a incident which would result in their demise. Now some of the player characters in the story have edge points over 3 or 4. As a GM who often times sacrifices killing blows for the sake of a story, and is often shy to pull a trigger (Personal philosophy = that the PCs are there to have fun. Especially the casual player. They are there to escape from the stresses of the real world, and as a result are looking for an atmosphere where they could stick it to the man, vent frustrations, have fun, and leave behind their problems at home. Getting shot in the head, or having a character die adds some stress, especially if it's a character they have a lot of passion for. End rant). It's kind of silly in my opinion to have a character who has more lives then a neutered cat.
I do not understand. The current rules allow the PCs to survive more. Although your philosophy is not to kill your PCs, you want house rules to make things deadlier?
since im a third edition guy i prefer the prime runner thing. all or nothing. once in your life you defy death. next time death wont be so gentle.
My house rule is as follow:
When a PC is dead, the GM can let the player burn permanently one point of Edge for a "Hand of God". The GM can let the player use the HoG as many times as he wants, though it's a good idea to limit to one use. A PC who used the HoG is likely to be afflicted with some physical or mental problems at GM and player's discretion.
Alternatively, the GM can let the player borrow some lifetime: the PC will eventually die, but his death will happen later at a fixed date or at GM's discretion.
(Another option is to have the player roll an Edge test with his new Edge score. If he doesn't get any hit, his death is just postponed, if he gets 1 hit he has a major complication, if he gets 2 hits he has a minor complication and if he gets 3 or more hits, he survives unscathed).
When a PC is dead, the GM can let the player burn permanently one point of Edge for a "Hand of God". The GM can let the player use the HoG as many times as he wants, though it's a good idea to limit to one use. A PC who used the HoG is likely to be afflicted with some physical or mental problems at GM and player's discretion.
Alternatively, the GM can let the player borrow some lifetime: the PC will eventually die, but his death will happen later at a fixed date or at GM's discretion.
(Another option is to have the player roll an Edge test with his new Edge score. If he doesn't get any hit, his death is just postponed, if he gets 1 hit he has a major complication, if he gets 2 hits he has a minor complication and if he gets 3 or more hits, he survives unscathed).
Curiously since I started running SR again just over half the part has said they are quite willing to get killed - they have other character concepts Etc. I know my games hacker is itching to swap out - He's a techie IRL and the matrix rules make him want to kill or pull out hair. They just haven't done anything terriably deadly or stupid yet.
This of course leaves me wanting to off the PC's who want to KEEP their charcters.
The Burn Edge To Live rule as is leaves a charater able to survive more or less forever - provided they can spend the karma on more Edge over time. This lets you be a leathal as you'd like (within reason and the tolerance of your players) while not "killing" anyone who really doesn't want to die. People get to cinematically survive the silliest things in various ways.
Possible house rules to reign it in a bit while leaving the option open:
Burned edge is added to the current edge stat for the purposes of Karma cost to buy up the stat - this will make any edge burn builds very unviable in a short period of time as your luck catches up with you. You CAN stay lucky in theory, but you will stop getting better at anything much VERY fast.
Heck I think I might be implimenting this one next session so long as no one at my table starts screaming about it.
This of course leaves me wanting to off the PC's who want to KEEP their charcters.
The Burn Edge To Live rule as is leaves a charater able to survive more or less forever - provided they can spend the karma on more Edge over time. This lets you be a leathal as you'd like (within reason and the tolerance of your players) while not "killing" anyone who really doesn't want to die. People get to cinematically survive the silliest things in various ways.
Possible house rules to reign it in a bit while leaving the option open:
Burned edge is added to the current edge stat for the purposes of Karma cost to buy up the stat - this will make any edge burn builds very unviable in a short period of time as your luck catches up with you. You CAN stay lucky in theory, but you will stop getting better at anything much VERY fast.
Heck I think I might be implimenting this one next session so long as no one at my table starts screaming about it.
How I run it.
Burning Edge is a negative attribute augmentation. In other words, you do not go from 4 to 3, you go from 4 to 4(3).
Players receive a +1 Edge attribute augmentation at 10 Karma earned, 30 Karma earned, 60 Karma, 100 Karma, etc (from 4 to 4(5) ).
End result is Edge is more available, but does have a 'fixed' limit on how often it can be burned.
In addition, whenever a player burns Edge for a Hand of God, they will receive 10BP worth of negative qualities, 50,000 in medical bills, or a combination of the two (5BP & 25,000). This may vary depending on circumstances of the Hand of God.
Burning Edge is a negative attribute augmentation. In other words, you do not go from 4 to 3, you go from 4 to 4(3).
Players receive a +1 Edge attribute augmentation at 10 Karma earned, 30 Karma earned, 60 Karma, 100 Karma, etc (from 4 to 4(5) ).
End result is Edge is more available, but does have a 'fixed' limit on how often it can be burned.
In addition, whenever a player burns Edge for a Hand of God, they will receive 10BP worth of negative qualities, 50,000 in medical bills, or a combination of the two (5BP & 25,000). This may vary depending on circumstances of the Hand of God.
QUOTE (SincereAgape @ Jun 9 2009, 12:19 AM)
To the fellow lurkers and posters on dumpshock, what are house rules that have been employed or are current in practice which replace the burn one edge to save a life rule? I am thinking about three scenarios.
What are you trying to achieve exactly?
It's within the RAW that HOG, or burning Edge to survive doesn't make you all hale and hearty after using it. Maybe you lost a limb, had cyberware destroyed, dropped a magic point, are in a Doc Wagon facility recovering and LS hasn't got around to you yet, or are in jail about to be processed, and all kinds of nasty situations where you are alive, but maybe wish you weren't and will take serious effort to get the PC back to the team.
Are you trying to limit the PC's with 3+ Edge from relying on HOG too much?
Sup guys,
Thanks for the suggestions. Ghost Cartels is a upgrade in difficutly and professional levels from what I usually run, and knowing the PCs that are currently running the shadows in this game, this question came to mind. I forgot about the side effects of using Hand of God, and love the suggestions offered in this thread so far. Everything from mental derrangements, loss of limbs, and high medical bills, depending on how they bite the bullet. The PCs will enjoy these suggestions as well. Wanted to figure out possible solutions or alternative ways to play the game, rather then having a PC with six edge be able to live forever, etc.
In addition, whenever a player burns Edge for a Hand of God, they will receive 10BP worth of negative qualities, 50,000 in medical bills, or a combination of the two (5BP & 25,000). This may vary depending on circumstances of the Hand of God.
-Muspellshimer
A PC who used the HoG is likely to be afflicted with some physical or mental problems at GM and player's discretion.
Alternatively, the GM can let the player borrow some lifetime: the PC will eventually die, but his death will happen later at a fixed date or at GM's discretion.
Another option is to have the player roll an Edge test with his new Edge score. If he doesn't get any hit, his death is just postponed, if he gets 1 hit he has a major complication, if he gets 2 hits he has a minor complication and if he gets 3 or more hits, he survives unscathed).
-Blade
It's within the RAW that HOG, or burning Edge to survive doesn't make you all hale and hearty after using it. Maybe you lost a limb, had cyberware destroyed, dropped a magic point, are in a Doc Wagon facility recovering and LS hasn't got around to you yet, or are in jail about to be processed, and all kinds of nasty situations where you are alive, but maybe wish you weren't and will take serious effort to get the PC back to the team.
-Dire.
Thanks for the suggestions. Ghost Cartels is a upgrade in difficutly and professional levels from what I usually run, and knowing the PCs that are currently running the shadows in this game, this question came to mind. I forgot about the side effects of using Hand of God, and love the suggestions offered in this thread so far. Everything from mental derrangements, loss of limbs, and high medical bills, depending on how they bite the bullet. The PCs will enjoy these suggestions as well. Wanted to figure out possible solutions or alternative ways to play the game, rather then having a PC with six edge be able to live forever, etc.
In addition, whenever a player burns Edge for a Hand of God, they will receive 10BP worth of negative qualities, 50,000 in medical bills, or a combination of the two (5BP & 25,000). This may vary depending on circumstances of the Hand of God.
-Muspellshimer
A PC who used the HoG is likely to be afflicted with some physical or mental problems at GM and player's discretion.
Alternatively, the GM can let the player borrow some lifetime: the PC will eventually die, but his death will happen later at a fixed date or at GM's discretion.
Another option is to have the player roll an Edge test with his new Edge score. If he doesn't get any hit, his death is just postponed, if he gets 1 hit he has a major complication, if he gets 2 hits he has a minor complication and if he gets 3 or more hits, he survives unscathed).
-Blade
It's within the RAW that HOG, or burning Edge to survive doesn't make you all hale and hearty after using it. Maybe you lost a limb, had cyberware destroyed, dropped a magic point, are in a Doc Wagon facility recovering and LS hasn't got around to you yet, or are in jail about to be processed, and all kinds of nasty situations where you are alive, but maybe wish you weren't and will take serious effort to get the PC back to the team.
-Dire.
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