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Vantive
Drones are everywhere...I can't stop bumping into them.

I had this idea that I could spoof a command to shut down, or drop a weapon clip, Or even land.....

Then have my mage friend Levitate it into the back of my van and I could shove a jammer on it..

I figure that the drone would not be able to recieve any more signals and would sit there idle.

From this point what do I need to do in order to make this drone my own, so nobody will rock up at my house with a bunch of trolls and say wtf.

I have a mechanic shop and the know Dice. What do I need to call and roll


Thanks,
DireRadiant
All possible, assuming the drone hasn't got a set of instructions to go home when it loses contact.
crizh
Stick a Faraday cage in the back of the van and you can dispense with the very obvious and hugely illegal jammer.

A Non-Linear Junction Detector is a good investment as is a Tag Eraser.

You'll want to tear out it's entire OS and software codebase, they can be full of Trojans, and you might want to rip out and completely replace it's dog-brain but that's kinda paranoid. Speak to your GM about that one.
Prime Mover
Faraday cage, tag eraser and replacing OS and Pilot. This should cover all the bases for even the paranoid.
LynGrey
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Jun 11 2009, 10:23 AM) *
Faraday cage, tag eraser and replacing OS and Pilot. This should cover all the bases for even the paranoid.


Could you just slap a GIANT magnet on his brain...? And just replace what you are going to ruin?
Chibu
QUOTE (LynGrey @ Jun 11 2009, 10:41 AM) *
Could you just slap a GIANT magnet on his brain...? And just replace what you are going to ruin?


Well, basically that's what they're saying. However, you need the tools mentioned to do it. Almost all tech in shadowrun uses fiber optics. The memory in the drone is Optical, using light. Magnets have null effect on it.
Vantive
Don't they put Tags on the parts of the machine to track where it all is?
deek
QUOTE (Vantive @ Jun 11 2009, 10:57 AM) *
Don't they put Tags on the parts of the machine to track where it all is?

Depends on your GM.

If the GM is pissed that you just stole a drone, he can do a number of things to track you down. If he doesn't care, then you probably don't need to worry about it. A one-liner saying you are removing/erasing anything traceable would suffice.

All in all, it depends on just how much you abuse stealing drones and home much you GM wants to get them back or prevent you from doing it in the past. So far, any drones I have thrown at my PCs tend to get shot up and they don't want to salvage them.
Vantive
GM:

"Drones are very expensive and worth alot to people, alot of the time it is cheaper to hire an actual team of shadowrunners to recover stolen drones than to replace the drone itself, Go for it if you like but beware the consequences."

Sound like im going to have a problem? Lol.
Malachi
I conditionally agree with your GM, depending on the drone. If you are stealing drones that show advertisements or count traffic or something, then I would say no one will miss them; unless you go on a huge spree of stealing them. OTOH if you're starting to steal the drones that Lone Star uses for checking ID's and catching criminals, or combat drones that corps use to guard there stuff: beware.
Octopiii
That's an interesting assertion by the GM. Unless you're stealing a Cyborg Walker, drones are characterized by being cheap. Steel Lynx = 5k. Shadowrunner team? 15k+.
deek
QUOTE (Vantive @ Jun 11 2009, 11:03 AM) *
GM:

"Drones are very expensive and worth alot to people, alot of the time it is cheaper to hire an actual team of shadowrunners to recover stolen drones than to replace the drone itself, Go for it if you like but beware the consequences."

Sound like im going to have a problem? Lol.

Haha...yeah, sounds like it will be a problem. Its his table though and if he has a problem with you wanting to steal some drones cause you are strapped for cash, then he needs to rectify the cash situation first...which should likely take care of the second (you wanting to steal drones).

Personally, at my table, I wouldn't care about just one. But if you started doing it often, you'd probably get some heat your way...
Vantive
I really like drones that fly around...

My GM doesn't really care what we do, he isnt against us. However he throws alot of spanners in the works and has an answer for just about everything we do.

If I can get one to shut down and get away to it. I have the tools to open it up. I could reprogram it. Im just affraid of it having some sort of tag in it that they can check where the hardware is.
DWC
If stealing drones gets teams of runners sent after you, you could always go full cannibal. Make your living luring out and killing other runners, then looting and selling their stuff.
Screaming Eagle
Um... unless you are stealing some pretty good drones (I'm not saying your not) or your Shadowrunners are cheap mo-fo's (and frankly I'm not saying they ain't) I think your GM has the math wrong.

The other problem is... well I've (A Mr. Johnson) hired a runner team to get my (companies) drones back: I give them the make and model. What motivation does said runner have to track YOU down? Won't any drone that fits the bill suffice? Am I the corp who hired you now starting a VERY low profit (and relativly traceable) drone theft ring? Ain't these drone things INSURED for just this sort of event?

I may hire or use a retainered PI or security forces to look into it if it occures more then once, but if you the rigger are doing your work right his job is going to be hell and proving it was you is going to be worse.

This of course breaks down as you drag this closer to lifting a whole production run from an Ares warehouse. Ares will come get you and anyone you know and love. Or rather they will get somebody and everyone they know and love. How well did you frame that other guy anyway?

No one is going to hire a runner team to get back their stolen car (unless it's the batmobile or they are the most vindictive ass in the world or something).
Low end Runner team for an "easy" job - 1000-6000 nY? Salted to taste.
A "good" car - 30,000 - 60,000 nY

Using your GM's logic EVERY car insurance company from here to doomsday is going to hire runners for their clients and provide a rental during the down time to "recover their car" rather then pay out for a new car.

Oh man... CAMPAIGN IDEA!!!
Blade
Stealing things is one of the job Shadowrunners do. According to this, every kind of gear can be stolen. But nothing is free. It costs less nuyens but has more risks. You risk being seen, being caught, being shot at, being tracked down...

And the more expensive the item is, the more risks you run. So for every x nuyens you save, you have a y=f(x) (where the higher x is, the higher y is) chance to have trouble. So the more you steal, the more likely it is that you'll get trouble at least once.

It's up to you to decide if it's worth the risk.
Inncubi

Along the lines of the non-junction linear detector and the tag eraser... There are tags that are hardened and the simple, standard tag eraser can't touch. My group played Thrash the body electric adventure in Denver. They decided they'd get as many trucks as possible, and to make it untraceable they had one of the mages get Detect RFID tag spell and Wreck RFID tag spell. It works wonders: They spam magic into the trucks, no subsystem is damaged and they are sure to have squeaky clean trucks for sale as well as the parts.
These two spells I see on a smuggler's list.
Night Jackal
From Unwired page 93
QUOTE
Jacking a vehicle or drone 8R Hacking skill x 200¥


Hmm you could always hire a hacker to go steal one for you, looks pretty cheap.
Jaid
QUOTE (Inncubi @ Jun 11 2009, 12:39 PM) *
Along the lines of the non-junction linear detector and the tag eraser... There are tags that are hardened and the simple, standard tag eraser can't touch. My group played Thrash the body electric adventure in Denver. They decided they'd get as many trucks as possible, and to make it untraceable they had one of the mages get Detect RFID tag spell and Wreck RFID tag spell. It works wonders: They spam magic into the trucks, no subsystem is damaged and they are sure to have squeaky clean trucks for sale as well as the parts.
These two spells I see on a smuggler's list.

wreck RFID is no good (you need to see it, which means you can probably reach it anyways, which means no need to spend karma/BP on the spell). detect RFID, on the other hand, is an excellent choice.
Inncubi
Hell... That is true it would have to be sludge RFID tag since its an elemental indirect combat spell.
It would do the same job albeit at a higher drain. I hadn't thought the sight needed for the direct combat spell, but that is totally my bad.

**Oh and it wasn't Wreck it was the area of effect one... Demolish. nyway as a direct combat spell the LOS caveat is still valid.
Jaid
well heck, if you're gonna bend the spell design rules to your whim, my make it elemental? you're pretty much already breaking the spirit of the concept by putting limited target onto an indirect spell, why not make it indirect and non-elemental? (who needs the drain anyways)

(note: i don't particularly support using those two particular spell design options largely due to realism issues i have with it; how do you make acid that only dissolves RFID tags? however, so long as you're gonna abuse the design rules, there's not much point in going halfway on it)
Screaming Eagle
Any such indirect spell: regardless of how hard you make the rules squeal, will be blocked by physical barriers.

Fire balling the inside of a truck only fireballs the guys outside if the truck if the truck explodes.

<EDIT> Another hazza for the detection spell though</edit>
The Jake
QUOTE (DWC @ Jun 11 2009, 03:47 PM) *
If stealing drones gets teams of runners sent after you, you could always go full cannibal. Make your living luring out and killing other runners, then looting and selling their stuff.


That's diabolical. I love it.

- J.
Vantive
Well what if we say it is your drone.

You have a nice Ford-LEBD-1 partrolling around your house, then when you get out the shower it is gone and you dont know where...


What do you do?
Jaid
call the police, maybe. hire a team of shadowrunners and pay them more than the cost of replacing the drone? no.
The Jake
Vantive, tell your DM to stop being a tight fisted arsehole.

Does he allow mages to steal control over free spirits?
Does he allow hackers to pirate software?
Does he allow street samurais to loot dead bodies?

Nearly every archtype in the game has ways of milking resources they need. Riggers are the most COSTLY of all concepts to play, bar none - even more so than a hacker.

Actually, first step - clarify with him that you agree for experimental prototype drones, but not for random security drones.
Secondly, point out the average cost of hiring a team is approx. 6k+, most likely 15k+. Given the cost of basic drones and insurance, corporates would more than likely file an insurance claim and write the thing off (excluding the RFID arguments here which are well covered - I second the faraday cage option BTW. My players have ones fitted to all their trucks).
Thirdly, if he still insists on being an asshat, I'd start insisting all PCs (especially the mages who have little need for cash) to chip in 10% of all their funds to go directly to you to cover drones and vehicle expenses. If they object, then tell them to a) blame the GM and b) refuse to help them in a run if they won't do it.
Finally, if all else fails, probably shoot rockets from your attack drones and blow up entire corporate facilities and deliberately botch a few runs or until he makes you reroll a new character and just quit. If you GM is that recalcitrant and PCs refuse to chip in, you're probably playing with a shit group.

Hopefully it won't come to that. wink.gif

- J.
Vantive
Would you mind explaining in more detail about a Faraday cage?

Assume I can knock it out for a moment and get it into my van, How do I keep it unactive,

I don't really want it waking up in the back of my Van and goes postal and shooting everywhere because its in a confined space without signal.

Then where do I do my modifications to the drone? I have a workshop at my house that I can touch up things and do repairs.. What exactly do I need to do to its brain to make it my own.
The Jake
A faraday cage is basically a chain link fence, fully contained, design to block all electronic signals in and/or out. This is covered in Unwired.

In the case of my PCs, they have a false company that does shipping. They've embedded faraday cages into the truck walls to block RFIDs of smuggled shipments. They tell their legitimate clients it is to help protect against interception (particularly against people looking to rip them off by hijacking shipments because they know its content). In reality they do it so they can ensure GPS tracking is limited to the vehicle at most and not individual boxes. The reason for this they do some pretty fancy switches within that truck (hidden compartments and RFID re-encoding "on-the-fly").

This may or may not work in your situation. In your case you might just for for a 1m3 Faraday cage in the back of a minivan - large enough to fit an extra drone until you can get it back to your base but not so large that it takes up the whole vehicle. YMMV.

- J.
Screaming Eagle
QUOTE (Vantive @ Jun 11 2009, 07:12 PM) *
Well what if we say it is your drone.

You have a nice Ford-LEBD-1 partrolling around your house, then when you get out the shower it is gone and you dont know where...


What do you do?

What I now do varies wildly depending on the details in the situation and the information avaliable. The below are two broad examples.
Bad Part of town/ sinless/ no licence for drone:
If the drone was the only security in my house I take a deep breath, get my gun if I didn't have it in the shower, light a smoke and thank the gods I'm not already dead from my own stupidity. Otherwise check everything to find out how they got in, why they didn't kill me in the shower and if they left anything to trace. If I find anything worth looking into, call the hacker, maybe the mage, do some tracking and make the thief publicly the saddest mofo on the planet as a lesson to everyone else not to touch my stuff.

Good part of town/ good lifestyle, licenced drone, good fake sin or a real one
Call the cops, file an insurance claim and get better locks - the insurance claim is of course rejected because your crappy insurance doesn't cover theft while you are in the shower and while the drone is on - a clause grandfathered from the "leaving your keys in the ignition" void from the previous century. Begin extended vengance campaign on insurance company.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Screaming Eagle @ Jun 12 2009, 05:09 PM) *
Good part of town/ good lifestyle, licenced drone, good fake sin or a real one
Call the cops, file an insurance claim and get better locks - the insurance claim is of course rejected because your crappy insurance doesn't cover theft while you are in the shower and while the drone is on - a clause grandfathered from the "leaving your keys in the ignition" void from the previous century. Begin extended vengance campaign on insurance company.
Seen Leverage lately? Sounds like a crossover between the main character and a rigger who has grown too attached to his drones. You should also enlist an Adept who hates guns, A Face who can only act believably on the job, a cat burglar and a Hacker. Woohoo new campaign idea. I like it.

I also second the notion that the GM should give you some slack. Is the mage also hunted down mercilessly, if he liberates a focus from opposition's magical backup? Those things are likely rarer and more expensive. Moreover as soon as they are rebonded, they cannot be tracked. If the previous owner is killed, they cannot be tracked right away. Unless of course Magic R Us starts putting RFID tags into the foci. silly.gif
Cthulhudreams
It's a real problem with the game - stealing shit like cars is probably easier than getting professional shot at.
Inncubi
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 11 2009, 02:43 PM) *
well heck, if you're gonna bend the spell design rules to your whim, my make it elemental? you're pretty much already breaking the spirit of the concept by putting limited target onto an indirect spell, why not make it indirect and non-elemental? (who needs the drain anyways)

(note: i don't particularly support using those two particular spell design options largely due to realism issues i have with it; how do you make acid that only dissolves RFID tags? however, so long as you're gonna abuse the design rules, there's not much point in going halfway on it)



Not doing that. The spells exist: Street Magic, p. 164: Corrode, Melt, Sludge (objet) spells, indirect, elemental spells, use acid for effect and only affect one kind of object. Could be designed into fire, electricity, hell even water, by spell design at least.

Which one your GM accepts depends, acid one, at least is canon. Hard to believe? Sure. Not messing with that, just showing its, actually, a canon creation.

However you are right on the part about the possibility to affect the Tags due to a barrier, hence to redesign Sludge into an electrical effect could work, or go via the manipulation spell I'll mention.

Hell, there is even a manipulation spell called Pulse (Street Magic, p. 174) that can be redesigned into targeting only a single target: RFID tags. This solution helps if you don't want to go combat spell-y, but manipluation spell-y. And there's precedent to draw for it: The Barrier spells.

Eventually if this still doesn't satisfy you, make it an RFID Zapper Barrier spell, going for a physical rather than mana build.

My point is, it can be built. My bad on the first post about to do it, but just giving some thought to it is doable.
cndblank
I find it funny that a Steel Lynx, a large drone, is cheaper than most motorcycles.

I could see a doberman which is about half the size but a Steel Lynx has be twice the weight of a motor cycle.

And there is no way some thing built for the military would be that cheap.

Plus this is AAA corps we are talking about here.

They can more than afford it.
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