Was wondering how effective it would be to have a cheap, crappy commlink with what appears to be a legit SIN and a bank account with like $20 in it (or maybe a bit more, whatever looks least suspicious to be honest without risking me losing enough money from a hack for me to care) on as my 'usual' comm and have the actual one off or something. I realize that having a good comm with good hardware and a decker or hacker in your team to ensure it remains 'hack proof' is a good option, although I have concerns with the idea of playing a Hermetic Mage and not being able to monitor my systems with really any computer or electronic knowledge. In other words, could I be safer with running one commlink on as my "This is just a completely average guy with nothing interesting" (cheap commlink, low funds in his bank account, who cares about this guy?), then when it gets down to it shutting off this cheap-o comm (would probably want to transition into a new area or something?) and turning on my 'hack-proof' (I use quote marks because anything can be hacked) comm as needed?

I see some problems with this set-up:

-you wouldn't want your fellow runner buddies contacting you on the cheap-o comm. Or I guess if you did have this, you could have them call, fake a mundane conversation, then switch your comms (cheap-o off, good one on) and call them back?

-Anyone monitoring you at the moment would find it weird if they observed you turning one comm off and another on, no? I guess trying to transition to another area or room or something while turning one on and the other off could help, but yeah...

I haven't seen this suggested anywhere and was wondering if this just has too many complications or what...

Pretty standard tactic, actually. You can keep your "real" comm on, but keep it in Hidden mode. As long as you have a Commlink in Active or Passive mode broadcasting a SIN, security drones and checkpoints won't bother spending the time to scan you for a Hidden Node.

Ahh, so you would still keep the 'real' comm on but in hidden mode? The idea is that once they observe you as "nobody interesting" with your normal comm broadcasting normally, they wouldn't bother seeing if anything else is going on?

Scans wouldn't reveal a comm in hidden mode immediately? Do they have to actually take time to scan for that specifically?

Locating a Commlink in Hidden mode takes 2 hits with a Scan Program. That's assuming it doesn't have Stealth running on it.

I always keep a lot of Stealth on my real comm, and almost nothing interesting on my fake comm.

I have a junk email address so why not!

Four hits actually. Electronic Warfare + Scan (4), that's if you have an "approximate" idea of where the Node is located.

Well, now I feel a lot better about not getting completely owned in the face by a random dude (or a security checkpoint) scanning to things to hack for his amusement and my detriment.

Wireless tech really, really changed hackers. I mean, you can hack a street sam's cybereyes, no? Hoo boy...

I saw someone say something similar earlier today.

Stealth does not protect against Detect Hidden Node attempts.

It is effective against Matrix Perception, Trace User and is the Threshold for Nodes to detect you during Hacking on the Fly or Probing tests.

well, that depends on how dumb the street sam is.

Um, Logic 2?

But no seriously, how does the StreeSam counter that? Other than, "Get your decker friend" to install programs or upgrade firewalls or something, I don't know I just don't like relying entirely on a team decker/hacker to ensure I'm not hacked. Yes, it's good to rely on your buddies, but it's always good to know yourself that it's safe.

Actually you can go one step farther.

Slave the public CL to the hidden CL. Then route all comms from the primary link through the public link. Further, any attempts to connect to the public link get forwarded to the hidden link, making it much easier to run security.

Also IIRC, you can use a subscription to run a program remotely... so you can run common programs externally on the public link where they won't raise eyebrows (edit... basic legit programs).

Well dang, I had a lot of that wrong. If stealth doesn't help you avoid being detected then I guess all my non-hacker builds can drop that off their lists. Thanks for pointers Crizh.

Yeah, for all my non-hacker builds, I basically get as high a Firewall as I can afford and buy as good an Agent as I can afford, then tell my GM that my commlink is set to constantly Analyze its home node for anything out of the ordinary, the same goes for my Agent (when I don't have him doing something else).

They way I figure, if I don't get alerted when a hacker hacks on the fly or probes, then my OS gives me a chance to detect and my Agent gives me one more. Not foolproof, but its at least an effort.

When it comes down to it though, if my GM really is going to spend time hacking my commlink, he's probably got some hacker good enough to make it happen. Which on the plus side, usually means that he's not going to be hacking me with random dudes just for kicks (unless he does it once to prove a point).

Keep in mind the figure for detecting a hidden mode goes to 15+ for area scans.

I point out the open ended '+' on the end of that. If the commlink has it's signal dialed down to 1 or skinlink... and is using the other commlink to broadcast. Good luck... that + is going to turn into a ++++ as you'd have to intentionally be looking for it and then you'd have to scan all the nodes in the vicinity to find which one it's routing through.

Slaving the public commlink to the hidden comm isn't going to set off any bells and whistles? The public comm is designed to be hacked easy so anyone being a douche and trying to get my info just finds out I'm an ordinary guy who's too incompetent to set up proper protection (outside of what came 'in the box') and only has 50 nuyen in his bank account so he's a worthless waste of time... Hacking the public comm won't let you know it's actually slaved to a better, juicier target? Because to me about the only thing more suspicious than a comm that's a bitch to hack is a comm that's a bitch to hack with an easy-hack comm slaved to it...

I appreciate everyone's ideas, too. I'm just paranoid about being techno-raped because I decided to play a character with little-to-no technical know-how of his own whatsoever.

I also guess avoiding notice from law enforcement or random scans is probably in the bag here, but I was thinking of the idea of avoiding being hacked if I'm sitting there in a meeting with a hacker for the first time. That guy's going to want to hack my commlink and anything else he can and dig for info, all while he's talking to me. I just want to have to make him jump through enough hoops so hopefully he'll never find any 'good stuff' and I can finish the meet without worrying about everything I have that's technological now belonging to him, in the hacker sense of belonging.

What "good stuff" do you think your GM is going to try to hack off your commlink? Just curious. I mean, I understand your paranoia, but unless you GM is going to be running that kind of campaign, it may never come up...

Every single Cyber-Component acts as it's own node. You can cluster them together and make your Sammi-Self an actually usefull Computer.
You can install things on each node. And on the Cluster-Level you can have Agents running things. Then slave all of those things with wireless burned out into your skinlink and use an external comlink with skinlink adaption for when you really must have your cluster going wireless.
Level1: Cheap-0 ComLNK with nothing too serious as to not seem too suspicious but cautious.
Level2: Behind that use another high level Command Link with Hidden Mode as ONLY Mode available. Install Agent and Firewall and the such on high levels here.
Level3: Command Link is connected to your Cluster via skinlink.
Level4: Install on your Cluster Agant and high grade Security Stuff.
Level5: Each single component/node gets wireless burned out and hardwired into your Skinlink-Adapter.
Level6: Each single component/node gets some minor security of their own installed as a last ditch resort.
Logic means Drake-Shit when it comes to hacking in SR4.

I was under the impression that when you Cluster various systems, they are no longer separate nodes, but all become a single new node with combined capabilities. Thus, if you cluster your cyberware you get 1 node to represent all your cyberware. Also, all those little (cyberware) nodes were peripheral nodes and thus can only run 1 program and it must be software designed to run on their limited systems (rules that don't apply to the cluster node you can form out of them.)

Also keep in mind that most standard cyberware is fairly weak as far as device ratings go. Headware gets some extra power, and if you have Alphaware it's actually rather good, but if your gear is standard or intermixed, the resulting node cluster isn't that powerful because some of it is the average of the clustered devices and some of it is the weakest of the clustered devices. In order to upgrade the cluster you'd have upgrade all the attached devices, and that's expensive and sometimes impossible.

I definetly second the general setup Stahlseele describes though. The decoy link is an important step towards keeping enemies from hacking your real one, and passing public spaces where a link is required to be online.
Having all your cyber gear and general equipment (smartlink guns, etc) on a Skinlinks so that only your commlinks are on true wifi means your gear can't be hacked without first hacking your commlink or getting some sort of physical connection to you. Routing comm traffic through the decoy link works great too (although if it has a bad Signal rating it can be easily jammed).
In the end, though, you will need to up the defensive abilities on your primary commlink as it will be the gate keeper/keystone to your PAN and thus all your gear and cyberware.
Aside from IC (the Agents Stahlseele is talking about) you can also install a databomb and encryption, both of which can be set to defend an entire node (like your commlink). Thanks to the program options in unwired you can run some programs at a rating higher then your system, which is helpful.

Look into getting a commlink at System 4, and then install a rating 6 Firewall (it isn't linked to system), and rating 6 Encryption (with Optimize 2 & Ergonomic) and rating 6 Databomb (with Optimize 2, Ergonomic, and Pavlov). Run a rating 4 IC and load it with Anyalze 6 (Optimize 2 and Ergonomic) and Autosoft [Homeground] 4. Buy all this software as Open Source so it's cheap but doesn't degrade (Unwired Eratta.)
I think it's cheaper to buy a Commlink with a rating 2 response chip and then upgrade it to response 4 then it is to buy a commlink at rating 4 to begin with. The SR4A rules note that you can't upgrade commlink (or car, drone, etc) beyond 2 higher response/signal then it starts with, so you have to start at 2 to get a 4 installed.

Wanne be really mean to people trying to follow/track you? built comlink into small little flying/hovering drone and send it on a wild goose chase through the megaplex at about your usual walking speed with some bursts of speed or using public transports.

Oh I like that. In fact I think I'll go start a thread on "subtle" drone tricks so I can pick up more of these.

I have to agree. Two comlinks would be fairly common.

You lose your comlink and you just lost your keys, your wallet, your cell phone, your briefcase, and your PC.

I suppose there would be ways to enter a password manually to get in your vehicle or house, but I know I would have a spare comlink or two.

And if you are going out and not looking to impress your date then taking a cheap comlink (that no one will ever see what type of comm link you have unless they hack your system) makes a lot of sense.

Why risk losing (mugged, pick pocked, hacked, or just left behind) four or five K of comlink when you can loose four or five hundred instead.

You might even keep a cheap spare in your car.

And if you are going to have several any way then why not put the cheap one up front with a small balance to bleed off spam and hacker attacks.

MSPs provide backup for personal data, don't they?

Yeah, it would be nice if Stealth gave a DP penalty to the Detect Hidden Node test... *shrug*

Just a little note... When you slave a device to another one, the one actually hacked is the "Hub" device, in this case, when they detect your "Public Comm," if it is slaved to your hidden Comlink, that is the actual device that gets hacked, as the public comm passes the data request to the Hub to which it is slaved... that is why slaving is a good practice, because you can have a secure HUB that connects all of the less secure Nodes...

Just thought that I would point that out, as your above post assumes that the Public Comm is the devie hacked, when in reality it is the Hidden device that gets hacked... Unless I have completely misunderstood your explanation...


You never link your Public Comm to your Hidden Comm if you want them to remain seperate...

Wow, this is all great stuff. I'm feeling quite a bit better about all of this.

I think it was just the paradigm shift from SR3 to SR4 coupled with an episode of "Ghost in the Shell" where one of the main characters hacks another guy's eyes leaving me with this immensely paranoid feeling of using technology with no tech skills to speak of...

At the same time, if I can take all these precautions, how does a Hacker ever manage to get in?

In my experience playing a hacker, all of these security measures are really just speed bumps... a good hacker will eventually penetrate the system, it is just a matter of time... of course, if he is really good, he may even hack it without setting off any alarms... But only if he is really good... with sota programs and equipment, i still manage to set off alarms about 40-50% of the time or so for the really difficult hacks... simple hacks are just that, simple and no real sweat...

What if the street samurai turns all his cyberware's wi-fi off ? what difference will it make ? It will still be connected to him by DNI, won't it ?
I use a hidden comlink and a cheap comlink for most my characters. Don't want to be a good computer/hacker, just to use my cyberware without fear of intrusion.

I have been running with two commlinks and its worked very well so far. I have one internal and one external and that set up hasn't failed me yet.

Is there a way I can ensure that I'm at least aware if I'm being hacked. I don't mind if all the extra steps I take are only 'speed bumps' to the hacker, so long as I get enough warning to turn my stuff off or turn off the wireless function for it.

Man, I almost wish I could just go with the old smartlink connected by cord, ha.

having an Analyze program up and running helps to detect attempts at hacking, but no, there's no way to perfectly detect being hacked.

And honestly, you are constantly being "hacked" by Viral Addware and Viral Spam... you will spend more time turning on/off your comlinks than actually using them... I would say to get the best analyze program that you can afford and the best firewall that you can afford... then throw an Agent/IC program that does nothning but constatnly scan your comlink for intrusions, and when they are detected, initiate a "log Off" attempt against the intruding hacker... Best bet for slowing down hackers that I have found...

My Two but YMMV...

Thanks

Well, I appreciate everyone's 2 , and feel free to toss a bit more out there too.

The thing is, this game is such a complex game compared to, say, WoD or D&D that the complied knowledge of ideas bouncing back and forth about what one can and cannot do with tech is really important.

So, is what helps a streetsam not get his body hacked mainly just him burning out the wifi on his cyberware? Is there really any need for him to have wireless capability on his 'ware? And on top of that, do most people just run with their nuyen in certified credsticks, or do they feel comfortable enough with it stored in their comm?

There IS no need for cyber to be wireless in a Samurai, like, EVER!
In Joe Shmoe, Wageslave for hire, that's something else entirely.

So, then, if the wireless is burned out in the sam's cyber, then the hacker can't even really get at it reasonably?

I guess this is partially boiling down to a "Don't keep anything on your comm you really care about" mentality on my part, as even with excellent protection it's only a slow-down and in the end I don't think I could stop a determined enough hacker. May as well just stick to certified credsticks and if the hacker wants to spend a huge amount of time (hopefully if I've protected myself at least somewhat) hacking my fake SIN info, then be my guest.

Actually I disagree, the very idea that any cyber would be defaulted to "wireless on" without a DNI command is simply stupid, even for wageslaves flunkies. The risks simply outweight the benefits and there are better ways for the fuedal lords (aka mangement) to spy on their serfs.

I have another issue here.
Lets say you have a cheap-ass commlink with your fake SIN, access I.D and commcodes. It has access to almost-empty bank accounts, to be used for public transportation, toll booths, stuff like that.
Then you have your other commlink, in hidden mode, linked to your PAN, with your shadow access I.D and shadow commcodes. You use this to access your shadow accounts.
Now, you transfer money from your shadow account to your fake account, right ? doesn't that leave a datatrail ? can't you be tracked down like that pretty easily ?

All it takes is a bank teller tracking the communication log of your fake account. If that happens while you still have the same shadow commcodes as before, can't they use that to track you down ?
It's probably not easy, but it's a weak point in the entire "two commlinks" thing.

Sure, which is why you keep enough "Mad Money" on your cheap 'link that you very seldom if ever have to transfer creds on the fly.

Yes, that would be a datatrail concern. The two comms should have no interaction or linkage in any way, or you might as well not have done two comms.

That being said, what I would do is either withdraw for hard currency and make a transfer that way OR (if this is plausible to not leave a trail), withdraw onto a certified credstick and then transfer the funds from the credstick to the other comm. The question is, do certified credsticks have any sort of identifying features between one another other than their balance? If there's some sort of unique number for every credstick, this idea would also be screwed.

The major drawback I see to the two comms is that your 'public' comm will often be a cheap-ass commlink, leaving you looking like a scrub in your public life and interactions. That being said, it's not too terribly expensive to upgrade your comm or get a slightly better one later on, which will make you look like less of a loser in your public interactions AND will make the hacker believe that's your only comm (if your decoy comm puts up a bit of a fight with a good firewall/analyze program etc. that's still not that expensive, the hacker will be less likely to think he's being duped by a 'decoy' comm since there was at least some investment in resisting hacking attempts).