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BlackJaw
I'd love to gather up some interesting tricks for using smaller and cheaper drones. If you have some, please post them.

Signal Ball
My next special use drone (or more likely set of drones) is a repeater iBall. The LoneStar iBall is about the size of a softball and moves by rolling, thus is limited to flat surfaces. It has a body of one, and according to Arsenal it has the "limited mobility" feature built in, which gives it 4 extra expansion spots for a total of 5 (4 + body 1).
(1) Retrans Unit (Retransmitter)
(1) Gecko Tips
(1) Laser Emiter
(2) Chamealon Coating
Load it up with a the best Response, Pilot, and Covert Ops Autosoft it can take.
Now I have a repater drone that is small and blends in anywhere. It can roll on floors, up walls, and across ceilings. It can repeat signals I send through it with a signal of 6, and I can link to it through windows thanks to the laser link. If I can get a few of these buggers (around $10000-$8000 each I think) they could be deployed in groups, forming chains of laser links through secure facilites to maintain connectivity.
Variant Idea: Instead of laser links set the buggers up with the "special machinery" option so it can leave a trail of Mesh RFID tags, sort of a less visable optical cable.
Variant Idea: Instead of laser link install a rating 6 Directional Antenna so it can maintain signals in one direction and try to power through signal blocking materails or jamming with ECCM software (an idea for when there are no windows.)
Variant Idea: Replace the Laser Link with a Satelite Uplink (1). Although terrible for hacking through, a Satelite link is considered Signal 8 and is hard to jam or detect compared to other systems.

Decoy Drone
An idea from Stahlseele:
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 18 2009, 08:30 AM) *
Wanne be really mean to people trying to follow/track you? built comlink into small little flying/hovering drone and send it on a wild goose chase through the megaplex at about your usual walking speed with some bursts of speed or using public transports.

I think a the Fly-Spy drone in the BBB would fit the bill here. The SRA has a 1 unit upgrade, and the flyspy has a body of 1, for modular computer parts that would let you install better then normal (exaclty like those of a Commlink) Signal and Reponse modules. You could then equip it with resonable systems, an agent program, and have it run standard commlink functions like making random phone calls, browse searches, etc so it looks like an active system to boot. Also pull the RFID tags out of some clothing, food, etc and attach them to the drone too, so it will seem to have the full tags of a person instead of just a drone. Have it fly at just above head level around the streets. Land in open air cafes around noon, etc.

Other ideas?
Stahlseele
Equip a flying drone with ruthenium polymers and image scanners and theft denial or however that vehicle electro-shock-thingie is called.
Basically invisible, silent flying little drone that dishes out 10DV of Electro Damage.
Or install some kind of dart mechanism and use it for injections.
Or put in as much explosives as your GM or your inner Not Munchkin will allow.
Or a Slip-Spray-Dispenser. Or Smoke-Blower. Or let it drop (micro)grenades.

There's RF-Toy-Boat-Loads of fun to be had with drones ^^
crizh
Just so you know, I don't like doing this, I hate it when other people burst my bubble.

An iBall cannot move at all under it's own steam. I don't know why they reprinted it in SR4A without changing it. Limited Manoeuvrability completely removes it's acceleration and speed stat's.

Satellite Communications is a Standard Mod only available to drones of Small size or larger.

On a positive note I really like the idea, I would go with the RPD-1X Ferret. It is the same size, faster and ubiquitous in corp facilities.

It also has 8 Mod slots.

edit

To actually contribute, I recently realized that the Ares Heimdall is a Mini-drone and is therefore a legal payload for the Multilauncher on the GTS Tower.

It's a missile with no scatter, you roll a Ram Test to drive right into your target, and has a range of 18km.

Bwahahahahahaha!

18km! eek.gif
BlackJaw
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 18 2009, 09:48 AM) *
Equip a flying drone with ruthenium polymers and image scanners and theft denial or however that vehicle electro-shock-thingie is called.

The full body zapper anti-theft feature is a (2) slot ability, and most "subtle" flying drones I can think of have only 1 body (and thus slots). That means you couldn't fit Chameleon coating (2) and Anti-theft (2) into most drones smaller then a person.
A Lonestar iBall is an exception here. A small Chameleon coated rolling drone that rolls up to someone and then zaps them is an interesting option for stealth take downs...

crizh: Thanks for the update. I don't take offense at being told I'm wrong when I am wrong. I prefer to learn, and you haven't been rude to me yet when correcting me.

Question: can iballs steer when rolling (such having been tossed)? I know they won't have the inertia to roll up a wall with gecko tips, but just along the ground, or down a wall, etc.

I guess the Gecko tipped iBall is still useful for being thrown onto a wall or ceiling and having it stick (and then detach on command?)

Aren't Ferrets kind of bigger then an iball? Somewhere bigger then a bread box but smaller then a dog? I guess that's cat sized? Hmmm... Maybe give it legs and the organic/skin option to make it acutally look like a house cat? That's like 4 slots, so if it has 4 left then it could still be made into a retrans or stealth attack unit right?
crizh
Cool!

I get to be nice.

All drones have at least 4 slots.

iBalls and Ferrets have 8.
Stahlseele
OK, i am at work, i don't have the books here ^^
Do this:
Use one Ruthenium coated solar powered Zeppelin-Drone-Carrier and drop iBalls modded to your liking all over the place.
Also:
Sorry, i got out of line there . . exploding mini-drones are probably not all that subtle ^^
BlackJaw
QUOTE (crizh @ Jun 18 2009, 10:02 AM) *
All drones have at least 4 slots.

iBalls and Ferrets have 8.

Oh I am so very happy to hear that.
That means even the crawler bug drone in BBB has 4 slots to play with.

I can have a lot of fun with this later.
crizh
Yes iBalls can steer whilst in motion.

Ferrets are a good choice for Chameleon Coating. As most corp facilities have dozens of Ferrets roaming around the place, program your ones up to look the same as the locals and you have an excellent infiltrator.

I quite like the grenade version of the Dragonfly, I'd fit a Splash Grenade as Special Equipment to such a Ferret.

I'd also give it a little retractable arm for manipulating things. Build a Hardware Toolkit and a Mini-welder into it and give it Gecko Tips so it can drive up walls or elevator shafts at 40 miles an hour.
Stahlseele
40 Miles an Hour ? O.O
Damn, forget about outfitting them with close combat weapons.
Vehicle ramming rules alone should more or less make them instant kill for anything hit . .
crizh
Unfortunately both Ram Plates and Weapon Mounts are Standard Mods.

I figure the built in grenade is fine. Hell on a mini-drone you could probably go all the way up to a mortar or rocket warhead.
Stahlseele
Which would give INTELLIGENT WEAPONS a whole new Meaning.
Imagine that, an Anti Tank Warhead capable of in building navigation.
While outfitted with Ruthenium and maybe electronic warfare.
eeviil and ugly O.o
DuctShuiTengu
Requires a bit more GM discretion on whether this is doable (and how well it works) but...

Shiawase Kanmushi, add a grapple or mechanical arm (talk to your GM to see which is needed), the right toolkit, and a high-rating radio signal scanner. Unleash it on any new hardware you pick up to find and remove any pesky RFID tags that might have been slipped into it. With the right programming, it should even be capable of dealing with there being other machinery in the way (note that there is some room for variation between GMs on how much is required for the drone to be able to remove pieces and parts and then put them back correctly. And be sure to turn things off before setting the drone to work.)

MedicBot May be a little too big to really qualify as subtle, but...

crizh's point about ferrets being a good choice for infiltration because of how common they are is a good one, and one that can be applied to other types of drones as well: going with models that are ubiquitous in the areas where you're using them is a good first line of defense against them being hacked, jammed, or destroyed. Finding the one Nimrod circling above the facility is easy; picking out which of the stormclouds hovering over the city is being used to spy on you (and may be carrying a sniper rifle) is much harder.
Dumori
Always use lasers on remote operating drones so they don't need to carry ammo as the can recrache by solar power.

Tips wise an injector on a drangonfly make a nice assassin/take down drone. Also one could alwasy drop the limited mobility on the Iball and take something liek this:
(1) Gecko Tips
(1) Laser Emiter
(2) Chamealon Coating

or if it fit the anti theft system so you have a 10S(e) stealth drone.
crizh
And in more good news..

I am happy to report to those that don't know that the Arsenal Errata reduced the slot cost of Chameleon Coating to 1.
Dumori
Cool must have missed that in my reading.

Oh god what is Lilth going to do with that extra slot nyahnyah.gif
DireRadiant
Can a small drone be fit with a medkit or slap patches, trauma patches or an injector delivery system? Then it could make a great independent emergency first aid kit.
crizh
Don't see why not, technically a Transys Steed is a Small drone and it's capable of carrying a full grown human.

You might have trouble squeezing a Medkit into a Mini-drone but that would be a GM call.
Traul
Add in biomonitors for everybody and the drone could decide to come and heal you by itself.
BlackJaw
Well, if Chameleon is (1) unit, and all Drones have at least 4 slots... then most of my plans for the iBall repeater stealth unit should work with a Bust-a-Move drone instead.
Octopiii
QUOTE (crizh @ Jun 18 2009, 08:57 AM) *
Just so you know, I don't like doing this, I hate it when other people burst my bubble.

An iBall cannot move at all under it's own steam. I don't know why they reprinted it in SR4A without changing it. Limited Manoeuvrability completely removes it's acceleration and speed stat's.


Curious, because it says it can in my copy:

"Designed to be tossed or rolled into a room, this minidrone can roll on its own but cannot handle stairs, lips, or large obstructions." SR4A p.350.
Cthulhudreams
I've always thought a fun thing would be a 'carjacker' program - a cheap commlink that you cover in something sticky and put on cars. It connects back to something else and channels and agent in that pwns the cars systems, but doesn't do anything to alert the locals.

Then you have one or many completely denialable and fairly cheap assets.

You can do all sorts of cool stuff - like start 40 cars and ram all the police cars in the chase - or all the ancients motorbikes. Or take ram raid to the next level. Or run interferance with the cars - make the guards think they are the issue while you sneak in the back.

And if you have any left over - drive them on autopilot to your nearest friendly stolen car dealers.
Cheops
Can micro or mini drones be outfitted with chem spray units? Seems like a good way to sneak in some gas or poison to neutralize your target.
crizh
QUOTE (Octopiii @ Jun 19 2009, 04:46 PM) *
Curious, because it says it can in my copy:

"Designed to be tossed or rolled into a room, this minidrone can roll on its own but cannot handle stairs, lips, or large obstructions." SR4A p.350.


Did you notice I said that I could not understand why the text had not been altered in SR4A?

Arsenal p106 has a list of Mod's that vehicles listed in the main rulebook possess. The iBall gets Limited Manoeuvrability which raises the number of Mod slots it has to 8 but removes any propulsion system. It may steer if thrown or rolled by an outside force but may not accelerate.
FlashbackJon
QUOTE (Octopiii @ Jun 19 2009, 10:46 AM) *
Curious, because it says it can in my copy:

"Designed to be tossed or rolled into a room, this minidrone can roll on its own but cannot handle stairs, lips, or large obstructions." SR4A p.350.

His point was that Arsenal gives the iBall the Limited Maneuvability mod built-in, which removes its ability to move under its own power.

On a related note, the iBall! How large is this? Softball-sized is how I originally saw it too, but the ocular drone (a literal eyeball) uses the same stats. Would it be unreasonable to assume that the iBall itself (or one of its "similar models") would be that size?
BlackJaw
QUOTE (FlashbackJon @ Jun 19 2009, 11:33 AM) *
On a related note, the iBall! How large is this? Softball-sized is how I originally saw it too, but the ocular drone (a literal eyeball) uses the same stats. Would it be unreasonable to assume that the iBall itself (or one of its "similar models") would be that size?


I think it's described as the size of billiard ball (but I may be thinking of something else there.) I always figured the removable eye drone cybertech was smaller then an iBall but lacked expansion slots at all. I don't really think anyone should be putting 8 drone modifications into their cyber eye, nor should it have the full set of sensor slots, the option to have smoke grenade and flash back installed, etc. That makes it too good as a cybertech eye.
DuctShuiTengu
QUOTE (crizh @ Jun 19 2009, 05:20 PM) *
Don't see why not, technically a Transys Steed is a Small drone and it's capable of carrying a full grown human.

You might have trouble squeezing a Medkit into a Mini-drone but that would be a GM call.


The rules on drones carrying people are a bit... off.

QUOTE ("Arsenal @ p. 102")
Small Drones (Body 2): These drones range from the size of a commlink or toaster up to the size of a large dog. They have a Concealability modifier of +4 to +6 (see pp. 301€“302, SR4).
Medium Drones (Body 3): Medium drones range from large dog to human or motorcycle-sized. They are unable to carry an adult metahuman, though they could potentially carry a child or small dwarf.


Despite this, there's both a small drone and a medium drone in the same book which are designed to carry people.

QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Jun 19 2009, 06:02 PM) *
I've always thought a fun thing would be a 'carjacker' program - a cheap commlink that you cover in something sticky and put on cars. It connects back to something else and channels and agent in that pwns the cars systems, but doesn't do anything to alert the locals.

Then you have one or many completely denialable and fairly cheap assets.

You can do all sorts of cool stuff - like start 40 cars and ram all the police cars in the chase - or all the ancients motorbikes. Or take ram raid to the next level. Or run interferance with the cars - make the guards think they are the issue while you sneak in the back.

And if you have any left over - drive them on autopilot to your nearest friendly stolen car dealers.


Not a bad suggestion. Not too subtle once you activate it, but until then, there's not much to give away that the commlink is there (assuming you've taken appropriate measures to hide it). If you want to be able to use the same tactic with vehicles you can't get to directly, consider a Dragonfly or Flyspy (Gecko Tips or Mechanical Grapple to hang on, Retrans unit to give it an appropriately long range for getting signals from you, and two more slots for stealth capabilities if you feel they're needed), though that's going to be a lot more expensive than the disposable, low-rating commlink, so you'll want to make a point of retrieving the drones.

That said, keep in mind that the vast majorities of vehicles in 4e are wireless enabled, so you don't really need to physically attach anything to the car (or truck, or helicopter) to try to hack in to get control, unless the vehicle is owned by one of those rare paranoid nutjobs who thinks that leaving a valuable and/or important piece of hardware as a poorly-secured, easily-detected wireless node to avoid the inconvenience of needing to turn off wireless when you're not using it is a bad idea. nyahnyah.gif
Stahlseele
QUOTE (DuctShuiTengu @ Jun 19 2009, 09:20 PM) *
The rules on drones carrying people are a bit... off.

If i ever get to play Shadowrun, and be it SR4(.5), again, i am so building a tiny little small rigger riding on all kinds of drones . .
He'll be waving around a cowboy hat and yelling YEEHAA when he goes to the attack.
CodeBreaker
Fear my Pixie Rigger who rides about on a modded up Ferret. Vroom Vroom!
Stahlseele
Yeah, or something flying around or so ^^
DWC
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 19 2009, 03:30 PM) *
If i ever get to play Shadowrun, and be it SR4(.5), again, i am so building a tiny little small rigger riding on all kinds of drones . .
He'll be waving around a cowboy hat and yelling YEEHAA when he goes to the attack.


If he's wearing a cowboy hat and yelling, you have to give him an Ares Heimdall to ride.
DuctShuiTengu
I actually have a pixie who rides a P4. He looks like the smallest Hell's Angel ever. grinbig.gif
Stahlseele
Now THAT's an awesome Character Concept ^^
OK, not really subtle anymore . .
crizh
QUOTE (DuctShuiTengu @ Jun 19 2009, 08:20 PM) *
That said, keep in mind that the vast majorities of vehicles in 4e are wireless enabled, so you don't really need to physically attach anything to the car (or truck, or helicopter) to try to hack in to get control, unless the vehicle is owned by one of those rare paranoid nutjobs who thinks that leaving a valuable and/or important piece of hardware as a poorly-secured, easily-detected wireless node to avoid the inconvenience of needing to turn off wireless when you're not using it is a bad idea. nyahnyah.gif


I'm in the market for a large BotNet for running an extensive surveillance operation and I was considering using the long-term parking multi-stories that must exist in the proximity of SeaTac.

You could subvert each vehicle the day after it's owner flies out and cycle it back out of the BotNet the day before he is due to get back.

A Beowulf clustered car park, now that's what I call a cheap super-computer.
Dumori
Out could even keep them in the net so they Erie by and hack other nodes while your super car park dose other stuff in the end you'd have 3 nets. The car park released cars and static nodes. Use the mobile cars as a sevalence node and the static ones for hacking data storeage and DOSimg and such.
BlackJaw
Ok, I have my books in front of me again... so let's design some interesting but subtle drones.

I'm going to start by building a stealth drone you could deploy into a building to scout. I'm building this one to be autonomous, so once released into a complex it can scout on it's own even if you don't have a signal reaching it, although it's high powered signal system helps reduce those issues. It's designed to avoid sensors and guards, can climb on walls, and has a few basic tools so it can open/cut into vents and the like if it needs to. It could, in theory, be used for sabotage because of this as well. It's on gecko tipped legs so it can traverse just about anywhere. It's as small as a rat so it can easily get around. It's software setup is design just for scouting, but could be further enhanced with sensorsoft programs so that it could note people, weapons, and gear in a complex, or it could be given autosofts to make alternative uses of its tool set. It's sensor package is designed to be able to alert it to guards and to bring back details plans of the inside of the building. The occasional burst of wide band radar can allow it to map out buildings, including rooms it can't reach. As an added advantage, it's upgraded signal and processor system means it could also double as a remote hacking drone, or if equipped with a quality (and well scripted) agent program and hacking software, it could be sent in to do a hack in places on it's own. I've designed this version as a top of the line infiltration and spy/scout drone so most of it's gear is fully built and top of the line, resulting in a price tag of around $46,100. It would be possible to build a less intelligent or fully equipped version for less. Also, if you built it instead of buying, and used open source or illegally downloaded software, you could reduce the cost by more then half.

Ferret Drone [8 slots] $3,000

  • Improved Sensors with 5 slots (0) Already Built in/Free
    • Camera from SR4A, Rating 6 for 6 enhancements [1]: Rating 6 X $100 = $600
      • Lowlight ($100)
      • Flare Comp ($50)
      • Thermal ($100)
      • Vision Enhancement 3 ($300)
      • UltraSound which counts double for vision enhancements ($1000)
    • Microphone at Rating 3 for 3 enhancements [1]: Rating 3 X $50 = $150
      • Audio Enhancement 3 ($300)
      • Select Sound Filter 3 ($600)
      • Spatial Recognizer ($100)
    • Motion Sensor [1]: Standard Drone Sensor
    • Ultrawideband Radar Rating 4 [2] Rating 4 X $500 = $2,000
  • Walker Mode (2) Body 1 X $500 = $500 (call it 4 legs)
  • Geckotips (1) $300
  • Chameleon Coating (1 Errata) =Body 1 X $1,000 = $1,000
  • Modular Electronics (1 SR4A) = $1,000
    • Response Upgrade Rating 6 = $8,000
    • Signal Upgrade Rating 6 = $3,000
    • Pilot Upgrade Rating 6 = $15,000
    • Autosoft (Maneuvering: Walker) Rating 4 = $2,000
    • Autosoft (Adaptability, Unwired) Rating 4 = $2,000
    • Autosoft (Covert Ops, Unwired) Rating 4 = $2,000
  • Fuzzy Logic (1) = $2,500
  • Signature Masking Rating 1 (1) Rating 1 X $2,000 = $2,000
  • Special Machinery: Basic Tool Kit (1) $500



Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 19 2009, 03:30 PM) *
If i ever get to play Shadowrun, and be it SR4(.5), again, i am so building a tiny little small rigger riding on all kinds of drones . .
He'll be waving around a cowboy hat and yelling YEEHAA when he goes to the attack.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

kigmatzomat
QUOTE (crizh @ Jun 18 2009, 11:57 AM) *
An iBall cannot move at all under it's own steam. I don't know why they reprinted it in SR4A without changing it. Limited Manoeuvrability completely removes it's acceleration and speed stat's.


Yeah, we saw that too and scratched our head. The pre-Arsenal iBall could be described as having "limited mobility" since it can't overcome hardly any obstacle. However the specific mod "limited mobility" would be better described as "immobile" or "unproppeled". (We've also house ruled the smart firing platform to be a drone with "limited mobility" and the +4 mod slots)

If you give the Arsenal mod "limited mobility" to an iball then half their stats become irrelevant (maneuver score maybe but run/walk speeds?). Since Arsenal is an optional book and SR4A didn't remove the iBall's run/walk speeds, we just decided there were two versions, one that has a drive system and one that forgoes the drive system for 4 extra mod slots. We figure the unpropelled iBall didn't obviate the Spyball device in Arsenal since the iBall includes an AI that can make its own perception tests.

Assuming you buy into our logic, I like to put gecko tips on the iBall. While it is still readily overwhelmed by mud, loose soil, etc, the iBall can now readily roll up walls, across ceilings, or just along your equipment harness. There's nothing like using the flash-bang equipped version of a gecko-tipped mobile iBall as a "guided grenade".

Gecko tips on BustAMoves are also funny, especially if you replace the normal fuzzy shells with something situationally appropriate, like devil rats, squirrels, and pigeons. (No, the pigeons don't fly but lots of pigeons spend time just walking around)

Plus, I put gecko tips on smart firing platforms. Nothing like having sentry guns stuck to ceilings, walls, stairwells, the roof of a car, wherever.

Actually, I generally use smart firing platforms with a drone rack instead of an (unconcealed) flexible weapon mount. They have a better field of fire (180 degrees by 90 degrees) are capable of independent firing, and also feed the TacNet, since they are independent drones. Plus they can be fired remotely, like a normal weapon mount, or you can turn off the targeting system and it turns into a standard tripod-mounted weapon (meaning it doesn't require Gunnery).

Also, be sure to get some of the laser transmitters from arsenal. Those buggers are cheap and have a high signal rating. They are great for aerial reconnaissance drones, since you can fly them high and get LOS from long distances. No reason to announce your spydrone with a radio signal if you can use a narrow-band laser. Satlinks are also good for aerial recon drones.
Falconer
Even w/ gecko tips, I wouldn't let the iBall run up and down walls... I'd let it stick to the ceiling and roll around, or roll around on the floor. But I'd keep it's limitation that it can't go up or down walls. The description says it can't handle stairs or even lips... so not even ramps for this little badboy. The usefullness of the gecko tips on walls being that you can just manually stick the thing to a wall w/o any more fuss, but it's not going to be mobile in that spot. Or any other horizontal surface.


I had the same idea for the weapon platform, but never had a chance to give it a go. But if you're using it as a pintle mount on say a pickup w/ someone in the back standing behind the machine gun in the bed. It sitll uses gunnery... as soon as you have it mounted on a vehicle it's gunnery. (cheesy... yeah... and I'd let someone use HW skill provided that the vehicle wasn't moving... but by strict RAW it's gunnery). If you dismount the drone... then yeah it can be used as a tripod.

Cadmus
QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Jun 22 2009, 10:49 PM) *
Gecko tips on BustAMoves are also funny, especially if you replace the normal fuzzy shells with something situationally appropriate, like devil rats, squirrels, and pigeons. (No, the pigeons don't fly but lots of pigeons spend time just walking around)

Plus, I put gecko tips on smart firing platforms. Nothing like having sentry guns stuck to ceilings, walls, stairwells, the roof of a car, wherever.

Actually, I generally use smart firing platforms with a drone rack instead of an (unconcealed) flexible weapon mount. They have a better field of fire (180 degrees by 90 degrees) are capable of independent firing, and also feed the TacNet, since they are independent drones. Plus they can be fired remotely, like a normal weapon mount, or you can turn off the targeting system and it turns into a standard tripod-mounted weapon (meaning it doesn't require Gunnery).



My inner Rigger loves you for this!

*hugs*
Dumori
Gunnary so good it's funny. There's even a case for using it for weapons in gun ports as you have to mount them in to the port first.
kigmatzomat
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jun 22 2009, 11:37 PM) *
Even w/ gecko tips, I wouldn't let the iBall run up and down walls... I'd let it stick to the ceiling and roll around, or roll around on the floor. But I'd keep it's limitation that it can't go up or down walls. The description says it can't handle stairs or even lips... so not even ramps for this little badboy.


I think you misunderstand the rational for the limitations. The iBall functions like a hamster ball.
Normal iballs can handle ramps, as long as they have enough torque for the grade and friction for the surface.

The reason it can't cross lips or stairs is that they bounce off or up. Even if they started stationary against the lip had mega-torque and superfriction tread, they would just go vertical with no way to transform their momentum from vertical to horizontal.

With gecko tape and assuming the the iball has enough power/weight ratio (and that raio tends to go up as size decreases, e.g. insects), they can go up and across walls. Gecko tape fixes the issue with changing the plane of momentum by providing an adhesion, letting it work like those S-shaped magnetic gyroscopes. When the gecko ball hits the top of the stair, the gecko tap holds it to the edge. As long as the iball's momentum doesn't exceed the gecko tape's cling strength, the ball will be "pinned" to the edge and will rotate around it.

QUOTE
The usefullness of the gecko tips on walls being that you can just manually stick the thing to a wall w/o any more fuss, but it's not going to be mobile in that spot. Or any other horizontal surface.


IIRC gecko tips can be put on wheeled vehicles, so I'm not sure of your logic. I've seen a youtube video of a gecko taped RC car that ran over walls. IIRC, they had issues with wheel sizing as at some sizes it would rip paint off the drywall. Something about twisting forces not disloding the tape.
DuctShuiTengu
QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Jun 23 2009, 06:34 PM) *
I think you misunderstand the rational for the limitations. The iBall functions like a hamster ball.
Normal iballs can handle ramps, as long as they have enough torque for the grade and friction for the surface.

The reason it can't cross lips or stairs is that they bounce off or up. Even if they started stationary against the lip had mega-torque and superfriction tread, they would just go vertical with no way to transform their momentum from vertical to horizontal.

With gecko tape and assuming the the iball has enough power/weight ratio (and that raio tends to go up as size decreases, e.g. insects), they can go up and across walls. Gecko tape fixes the issue with changing the plane of momentum by providing an adhesion, letting it work like those S-shaped magnetic gyroscopes. When the gecko ball hits the top of the stair, the gecko tap holds it to the edge. As long as the iball's momentum doesn't exceed the gecko tape's cling strength, the ball will be "pinned" to the edge and will rotate around it.



IIRC gecko tips can be put on wheeled vehicles, so I'm not sure of your logic. I've seen a youtube video of a gecko taped RC car that ran over walls. IIRC, they had issues with wheel sizing as at some sizes it would rip paint off the drywall. Something about twisting forces not disloding the tape.


However, per Arsenal, the iBall has the Limited Maneuverability mod built in, which reduces its ability to move under its own power far below what is suggested in the core book (both the original and Aniversary Editions). Per the rules for limited maneuverability, it has no ability to move under its own power, only a bare minimum ability to change how it moves from being rolled, thrown, kicked, or what-have-you (ensuring that it ends up right-side up, shifting direction slightly to avoid obstructions or to end up in a slightly better spot to view its surroundings). It's not a hamster ball with an internal motor to make it go; it's a billiards ball that's capable of controlling which way it curves (within limits) once you put it in motion.
kigmatzomat
I think you missed my premise, which is that since the sr4a contradicts and supercedes the optional Arsenal, that there are TWO standard models of iball: the motorized sr4 hampster ball and the unpowered but capacious Arsenal variant.

My gecko tipped version was based on the powered one.
Stahlseele
Dunno if it counts but:
Make a Rigger join a Network of multiple iBalls and force him to see everything they see at once.
And then roll ALL of the iballs around as if they were on a billiard table.
crizh
Wow, Rigger Pool!

Now there's a groovy team sport....
Stahlseele
That's a funny idea too ^^
lowendz113
I know this is sort of against the idea of the iball, but couldn't you just give them walker mode?
It's 2 slots, but you still get an extra 2 slots out of the deal, and it completely removes the need for such a debate. It's kind of a cool image too: Rolling balls that pop out spider like legs to climb up a wall. Sorta like the drones from the newer star wars movies.

All in all I think the ferret is probably the way to go though. It's a small bot, common place, affordable and very mod-able.
Stahlseele
Nah, not like in Star-Wars.
More like this, and the Legs would have to be able to fold up completely into the Eye-Ball itself.
http://static-p3.fotolia.com/jpg/00/10/97/...NE4pQyJSAPu.jpg
lowendz113
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 23 2009, 06:40 PM) *
Nah, not like in Star-Wars.
More like this, and the Legs would have to be able to fold up completely into the Eye-Ball itself.
http://static-p3.fotolia.com/jpg/00/10/97/...NE4pQyJSAPu.jpg


Well the rule books don't get into folding up the legs. They don't give it as an option. I think it would be easily justified to say they can fold in at the cost of 1 slot.
lowendz113
QUOTE (BlackJaw @ Jun 20 2009, 08:26 PM) *
Ok, I have my books in front of me again... so let's design some interesting but subtle drones.

I'm going to start by building a stealth drone you could deploy into a building to scout. I'm building this one to be autonomous, so once released into a complex it can scout on it's own even if you don't have a signal reaching it, although it's high powered signal system helps reduce those issues. It's designed to avoid sensors and guards, can climb on walls, and has a few basic tools so it can open/cut into vents and the like if it needs to. It could, in theory, be used for sabotage because of this as well. It's on gecko tipped legs so it can traverse just about anywhere. It's as small as a rat so it can easily get around. It's software setup is design just for scouting, but could be further enhanced with sensorsoft programs so that it could note people, weapons, and gear in a complex, or it could be given autosofts to make alternative uses of its tool set. It's sensor package is designed to be able to alert it to guards and to bring back details plans of the inside of the building. The occasional burst of wide band radar can allow it to map out buildings, including rooms it can't reach. As an added advantage, it's upgraded signal and processor system means it could also double as a remote hacking drone, or if equipped with a quality (and well scripted) agent program and hacking software, it could be sent in to do a hack in places on it's own. I've designed this version as a top of the line infiltration and spy/scout drone so most of it's gear is fully built and top of the line, resulting in a price tag of around $46,100. It would be possible to build a less intelligent or fully equipped version for less. Also, if you built it instead of buying, and used open source or illegally downloaded software, you could reduce the cost by more then half.

Ferret Drone [8 slots] $3,000

  • Improved Sensors with 5 slots (0) Already Built in/Free
    • Camera from SR4A, Rating 6 for 6 enhancements [1]: Rating 6 X $100 = $600
      • Lowlight ($100)
      • Flare Comp ($50)
      • Thermal ($100)
      • Vision Enhancement 3 ($300)
      • UltraSound which counts double for vision enhancements ($1000)
    • Microphone at Rating 3 for 3 enhancements [1]: Rating 3 X $50 = $150
      • Audio Enhancement 3 ($300)
      • Select Sound Filter 3 ($600)
      • Spatial Recognizer ($100)
    • Motion Sensor [1]: Standard Drone Sensor
    • Ultrawideband Radar Rating 4 [2] Rating 4 X $500 = $2,000
  • Walker Mode (2) Body 1 X $500 = $500 (call it 4 legs)
  • Geckotips (1) $300
  • Chameleon Coating (1 Errata) =Body 1 X $1,000 = $1,000
  • Modular Electronics (1 SR4A) = $1,000
    • Response Upgrade Rating 6 = $8,000
    • Signal Upgrade Rating 6 = $3,000
    • Pilot Upgrade Rating 6 = $15,000
    • Autosoft (Maneuvering: Walker) Rating 4 = $2,000
    • Autosoft (Adaptability, Unwired) Rating 4 = $2,000
    • Autosoft (Covert Ops, Unwired) Rating 4 = $2,000
  • Fuzzy Logic (1) = $2,500
  • Signature Masking Rating 1 (1) Rating 1 X $2,000 = $2,000
  • Special Machinery: Basic Tool Kit (1) $500


I haven't had a chance to go through this guy step by step to see if I can cut the fat anywhere, but he looks great. Expensive, but probably worth it from what I can gather. It'll make your infiltrator feel worthless lol.

One thing I did notice is that you have the Ferret listed as having only 8 slots, whereas the book says 10. [quote name = 'SR4 Arsenal pg 118'] on the last line of the ferret's description "The Ferret has 4 additional modification slots for a slot maximum value of 10 (see p. 129)."
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