Hey all!

Been wondering about this for a while now, do you add Spirit Energy to Force to calculate Magic Attribute? Have I forgotten where this is stated? (if so, please give book and page number) Or is it just a function of adding Spirit Energy to Force for all stats?

Mainly interested as it pertains to SR3 and previous editions.

im pretty sure you add spirit energy to force for all intents and purposes.

That's the way I've been doing, but wondered if Magic att. was special - as it so often is - and I was forgetting and overlooking the place where it pointed it out. Also makes Personal Domain much more wicked.

Ok so, the Free Spirit's Initiate Grade is equal to it's Spirit Energy. Therefore, yes, you add Spirit Energy to it's Magic Rating. Yeah, I know it seems weird, and it means that, when they go up the the next Force, they actually get less powerful until they raise their Spirit Energy again.



The part about initiate grade is under "Aura Masking", also on page 79.

So that's for SR2. For SR3:
The only mention i can find is Magic in the Shadows p.114: "When a free spirit uses a spirit power power that is based on Force, add the spirit's current Spirit Energy to its Force." and then on p.118 under Powers --> Sorcery: "Drain does not affect the spirit. The spirit cannot, however, cast a spell at a Force greater than its own Force."

So while this does not specifically state anything about magic rating, i do believe it is implied.

Edit: Aura Masking says the same thing in MitS. p.117.

May I ask in what contaxt the magic stat is relevant?
For spells/sorcery I would add spirit enery to determine the force that can be cast as it is a spirit power. The free spirit does not take drain in any case.

However to determine its actual magic stat, as a none physical stat in the physical world whichare clearly efected, its force all the way and thats your lot..

Thanks.


Contexts in question.
One involves sustaining Ritual Magic. It is based on Magic times allocated dice in hours. Adding Spirit Energy doubles the effective time and in a personal domain triples it in this case. And if it increases Spell Pool it can double these times again.

Which brings up another which involves Spell Pool which is partially derived from Magic Attribute. Spell Pool can augment Sorcery Tests and may need to be used when the spirit is Possessing a character. Then, magic use causes Physical Drain on the astral body, which I am assuming the spirit is subject to, even if they normally can ignore drain.

Then there is adding the spirits Force to Physical Attributes of a Possessed Character. Just F, or F+SE.

One that doesn't come up often is use during Astral Quests in the place of Destiny which uses Magic or essence for the test.

I Actually have no idea how that would work with a Free Spirit, as we don't use free spirits or ritual magic enough. sorry I can't really help there.

I really have no idea about the whole ritual magic thing, sorry =\

Reading the section on Sorcery is kind of confusing. It basically says that sorcery is a skill for Free Spirits like any other mage, and starts out at a level equal to their starting Spirit Energy and they raise it as a normal skill... And that their spell pool is equal to their Force. Now, before this, it says "Anything that says force really means force+spirit energy"... So, I don't really know.

When possessing, Free Spirits add Force + Spirit Energy, yes.

Also, don't know about the Astral Quests either. Personally, I'd use force + spirit energy to determine their magic rating all the time, as spirit energy is their effective initiate level anyway.

Thanks for defining the issue.
I would respectfully disagree with Chibu on the first point.
I would go for vanilla force equals magic in ritual sorcery and astral quest. Well basically all the time unless explicitly detailed otherwise. Though you use SE as the effective intiate grade, its just for comparison to make powers work game wise not actual bonuses.

As noted a free spirit's spell pool is its force not its magic and mental stats. As an amendum, I would also say the SE is not added to force when calcualting the spell pool. It is slight at low force but its still makes them to powerful, see personal domain madness that follows otherwise.

Free spirits dont take drain in astral or physical, astral is their natural enviroment and they are in tune with magic by their nature. Apparently.

For possession, force + SE bonus to vessel's physical stats, so yes a personal domain is a bad place to take on a FS as they can possess anyone as well.

Thats the way I read it anyway. I have played through all these rules with FS's being both allies and antagonists and this take, to date, keeps the power level balanced between mortals and the FS's in the traditional stat sliding scale.

Hope that helps.

Edited for clarity and spellin.