So my current character is a merc and weaponsmith. I have been debating having his gun dealer contact begin searching the shadows for an Ares Redline Laser Pistol (Arsenal p.41) and a couple of Peak Discharge Packs (Arsenal p. 36).

I actually sunk some BP into Exotic Ranged Weapon: Lasers in hopes of being somewhat useful with them, and I will be honest: it seems too cool to not at least own one (and totally in character for a guy who collects firearms).

Is the damage, however, worth the cost and the highly illegal nature of the weapon?

Pros:

• Impact Armor, and only half that
• Absolutely no recoil
• Intimidating as hell (situational)

Cons:

• Totally illegal
• Expensive
• Small Ammo Capacity (Satchel notwithstanding)
• Low Rate of Fire

I assume that, since Laser weapons can accept top and under mounted accessories, that these can indeed be smartlinked, so, my character would have a "decent" (Depending on your table) die pool of Agility 6 + ERW 2 + Smart 2 =10
Not the best, but again, no recoil and decent penetration.

As an aside, are there any 'legal' versions of the Peak Discharge Pack? Because the Sonic Rifle from Ares uses them as well, and it is a perfectly legal weapon, but the ammunition is Availability F?

Laws are subject to change, especially around election time If Ares' Sonic Rifle uses a forbidden item as ammunition, then you might expect them to lobby various governments to be able to make the battery packs more available.

I am sure that Ares Macrotechnology is spending millions of doing just that. I mean, to support the "ability for every metahuman to defend themselves with the best in less-than-lethal weaponry".

Read: to sell more product

Short range laser weapons aren't that useful.

Long range, on the other hand... the ability to hit anything you can see, without any relevant deviation should be extremely ugly.

Then again, given to completely crappy rules for the missile defense system, it doesn't even matter.

I believe only one question need be asked when determining whether or not a laser weapon is needed:
"Am I as Badass as Han Solo?"

If you answered yes to the above question, then some sort of laser weapon is not only acceptable, but required.
If you answered no, then you should go home and cry because you will never amount to anything as a Runner.
(Hehehe...jk)

On a more serious note:
I can't say too much about the perks of laser weaponry since most of my characters have the Gremlin quality (Tech falls apart). I don't use them.
But on legality, whats to stop you from owning something illegal? You're a shadowrunner, almost everything you do is illegal. And what's stopping you from (A) Making your own battery packs, since they are electronics or (B) Stealing from a megacorp?

Oh trust me, my character has plenty of illegal gear. But sometimes the illegality is a bit intense is all. But I have decided, definitely gonna go and try and grab the Redline. It'll be nice to have something to pull out for those special situations where silent, discreet killing power is required.

Are SR laser weapons silent? Do they have an invisible discharge? If both of these are answered 'yes' then the weapon has many more perks for a runner.

Could you please point out where in RAW it says that LASERs have no recoil.

As a disadvantage you forgot that the damage decreases with range and in poor weather.

LASERs are cool but the rules really suck.

I bet an automatic weapon with Tracer Ammo looks just as cool and is alot more reliable, and can be made recoilless as well. Maybe that even works with high velocity weapons.

I don't know if it does say whether lasers are recoilless or not, but it would make sense if it has anything to do with lasers (as in RL lasers).
While such things have not been weaponized to this extent yet, those applications that do utilize lasers rarely have a "recoil" and even when they do, its usually because of some other part of the machine.

In Arsenal description of laser weapons.

First paragraph under laser weapons (Arsenal, p. 41) - Laser Weapons cause no recoil and are resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up).

No word if they are silent and invisible. I made an assumption there however. I would lean towards totally silent, the visible aspect really could go either way.

Hmm. I may change to the Ares MP Laser 3. 12 grand upfront. A satchel pack, worn on a combat vest and connected via cable is 700 nuyen for 15 shots.

Now, if my GM lets me make a firing selection change from SA to Burst Fire, I'd have one hell of a weapon

In any event, I would probably not allow man-portable laser weapons to be modified to SA or FA unless you want a game-breaker. Fluff-wise, I don't think the tech is there yet in any event.

Gamebreaker it ain't. Even if you upgrade to BF/FA, they still don't compare to regular weapons in atmosphere.

Ammo-breaker, it is - it would draw so much energy that you couldn't really use it.

Concerning the tech: Any laser is pulsed anyway.

Ok. My GM said "go for it" but he also said lasers are not silent or invisible.

I am sad. And it is hardly a game breaker. The MP 3 Laser rifle would be doing (assuming 2 short bursts) 10P up to 100 yards, 9 P up to 250. The no recoil is nice, but at 2 'rounds' of power per shot, it'd end up being a 5 trick pony.

Still would be fun however to burn a hole in some corpsec.

Also, just a thought - should the spell Improved Invisibility provide extra damage resistance test against lasers, being as it bends light around the target?

I can see why lasers aren't silent or invisible, As a weapon, there is so much energy needed to deal any damage that it's essentially lightning, visible and accompanied by thunder. The "Sound" of the laser probably come from the energy superheating the air around it, just like thunder.

Edit: Also, it depends on the type of invisibilty, Improved, maybe, since it actually does bend light, but the normal invisibility spell just tricks the mind of the viewer into believing you aren't there, but does not hide you from cameras and other detection devices.

Maybe with 37 net hits, as there is MUCH more light to bend.

I was, for game purposes, simply using the same basic idea as silence and sonic weapons, but applied to lasers.

That seems reasonable.

-paws

Does the Improved Invisibility Spell help against other devices that use lasers such as photoelectric sensors or range finders?

I imagine being invisible is a pretty good start to not being detected
But that said, I'm not 100% - I know Improved Invisiblity affects machines, and that is all I know

As far as I can tell, the Improved Invisibilty actually warps the light around your body, rendering you invisible to electronic devices which rely on light rays. However, I don't know if it encompasses the entire Electromagnetic spectrum or just visible light. Basically, you need to figure what the device works on and whether that is covered in improved invisibility. For example, if improved invisibility also warps infrared radiation, then anything using infrared would be unable to detect whatever the spell is hiding. Examples of these devices would be Thermographic vision, IR goggles, heat sensors and ranged thermometers.

Also, as a bit of humor: If the spell covers Ultraviolet radiation as well, then it would work as a pretty good anti-sunburning method

In SR, Lasers have always been effective sniper weapons. No recoil, no way to identify the shooter, and no way to trace the wound to the gun (especially if your laser "fell of the back of a truck"). For high profile targets that have the resources behind them that could track you down quick if you use a bullet, I would consider laser weapons. As pointed out they are crappy in bad weather but if your doing a public assassination, what are the chances that it will be miserable out?

The rules actually say that it works against IR light.


But you couldn't be seen in your new stylish bathing clothes

It's specifically mentioned in one of the Ares Vehicle to Vehicle lasers descriptions that it's invisible, so I would presume that all of the other lasers aren't invisible.

While this may be true for the description, a beam of a LASER is always invisible unless you a) look directly into it or b) is reflected by some substance. Representation of LASERs in Star Wars is pretty much male bovine excrement especially in the vacuum of space. I'm not sure what the sound is supposed to be.

Its not even a laser in Star Wars actually....
While it is true that none of the sounds should be heard in space (movies just have that for dramatic effect), the Blasters actually fire a solid projectile at supersonic speeds which has been superheated into plasma. So it actually isn't a laser, just a very hot, very energized bullet.

Wow, I'm such a geek.

They explained the sound, too. As a way of addressing the issue of 3-dimensional combat, the sensors use sound to represent nearby craft. The sound is based on the craft's radar signature, which is why Vader's TIE Bomber sounds significantly different from the TIE Fighters despite using the same engines.

My geekiness has just increased. According to Wookiepedia, the weapons of an X-Wing are called LASER cannons but are in fact plasma weapons just like blasters

Are there IMPLANT-VERSIONS of Laser-Weapons and/or the Sonic Rifle or Flame-Throwers or something like that?

The welding laser modular hand deals the same damage as a Redline, but with shorter range and Single Shot firing rate.

Hmm, when you redline OTHER Cyber-Limbs, you get more Power-Output . . could one redline a redline-style hand-laser?

I was trying to find a laser cyber-implant weapon when I was building Iron Man-style heavy military armor.

I would go with lasers just because of the coolness factor. As for the "ammo" availability and cost, remember that power packs can be recharged.

Remember that there's the external-clip option.
Just looks hella Cool if there's some big frigging energy wires coming from your back, going into your wrist and out comes big huge frigging laser power ^^

Lasers will not make any ware near the same nose lvl as a gun firing but they would make some noise also visibility would likely be manually added to allow for better aiming much with sound so you know if you've fired or not. Theses feathcers Could n my eye be turned off and even replicated by a smartgun system.

I think if you want an effective laser weapon (ala Iron Man) you would have to create a power armour vehicle that has a mounted Redline built in. That way the exoskeleton and not the person is carrying the weight. Depending on your power supply (ie if your using a pure electrical power plant) you could draw power from the suit directly, but that may cause problems in a long fight (you don't want your exoskeleton to die and have to be left behind).

Okay, let me explain a little about how laser weapons work (yes, they do work in 'real life').

The laser emits beams of light that intersect at a single point; this point is determined before the weapon is fired. At this point is where the laser deals damage (this is also why they use lasers to etch inside glass & crystal). Nothing between the weapon and this point will be adversely affected, & nothing beyond the point will be adversely affected. Glass & other transparent materials cannot provide protection, except in the unlikely event they refract the beam before its intersection point.


Lasers do not generate audio when fired. Mechanical parts of the weapon might generate noise, as well as the target, but the laser itself does not.

Lasers do not create a visible beam of light. Although it is possible to construct them as such, doing so is more difficult & does not increase performance. Nor would it in any way help with aiming (you must already have a rangefinder / target designator for it to calculate where to place the intersection point).

And finally, laser weapons in Shadowrun have some viable uses, but in general, are less effective than conventional firearms, & significantly so compared to the Gauss weapons (although they are available in smaller units than the Gauss weaponry).

That's mostly correct, but partially incorrect for all currently extant military lasers that I am aware of. Neither the YAL-1, THEL, or Northrup-Grumman FIRESTRIKE lasers use beam combinations on the target to deal damage: all are single-beam attack weapons. Or, more accurately, the multiple beams are joined prior to leaving the weapon's targetting array. This is visibly true of the YAL-1, as the laser is generated in the rear of the plane and directed by the nosecone mirror/aiming system at the tracked missile. Anything in the way or past the target risks being struck by the laser, although beam attenuation is certainly going to sap a lot of the heat. I imagine THEL's range is limited, as a truck-based platform: YAL-1 has severely reduced range at lower altitudes due to atmospheric interference.

I dunno how THEL targets, but I imagine it works like YAL-1: a separate, low-power targetting laser, as you have suggested. FIRESTRIKE doesn't need a separate targetting laser: it actually uses the main lasing array, but at a much-reduced power.

And also, the YAL-1 doesn't actually 'burn' the target in the traditional sense - it heats it enough for the skin to warp, whereupon the flight stress rips the frame apart due to uneven airflow.

Edit: The USN's MIRACL platform also propagates the beam continuously from the lasing array to the target.

Yeah, maybe you are right . . SHUT UP! ^^
Rule of Cool trumps your realism physics!

If the game designers intended for lasers to be silent and invisible, I think they would have said so.

Just like commlinks. Everyone assumes they work as quietly as an I-Phone, but they should make loud 'computing noises' becasue if the designers intended them to be silent they would have said so. And In SR, flashlights make a loud humming sound...

if lasers are silent and invisible, you don't need to say that lasers are silent and invisible in your game rules; that's just how it is. just like you don't have to specify that doors can open and close. that's what doors do. nobody says "hey, they never specified that this door can open and close, so it must not open and close".

What is your reasoning behind lasers making sound? I can agree that you might get the low hum off of the power pack, but other than that I honestly cannot think of one. And the only reason any laser system would be visible would be if they were both using a wave length in the visible spectrum and it was moving through some kind of cloudy stuff. And honestly if I was going to weaponise a laser system I would specifically make it so that it did not use the visible light spectrum. The only downside I can see from doing so would be that you would need to use a smartgun system to easily target an enemy, but honestly in the Sixth World I imagine all Military Grade weapons are designed for smartgun intergration.

Depending on the laser's power and focus, it's possible the laser's effect on the target itself might produce a sound. Given a fast enough flash vaporization of tissue and clothing, it might produce a rapport similar to a firecracker - if the gas expansion was supersonic.

It is also likely lasers would be more visible to IR due to heating of any dust or vapor along the beam channel. Note that I say "more" - atmospheric conditions would still dictate how visible. It's also possible that extremely powerful lasers - ones that are probably out of the scope of Shadowrun - would create a visible effect as the air along the beam channel was ionized. I don't remember where I put the paper I read on that, but given that I think you'd need more than 1gW of power for that, I think we can safely say that any beam visibility would be eclipsed by whatever was struck by the beam utterly exploding due to thermal expansion.

Lasers don't make any noise by themselves, but the Ares licence compels you to make a loud PTEW! sound with your mouth whenever you fire. Hence these guns are much more succesful on the black market than the official one.

What? Everyone who's anyone knows that laser weapons go FREEM!

Adorel has it correct.

Muspellsheimr has no clue how weaponized lasers work.


The thought that the beam is invisible is good. Though I'd probably say if someone tossed smoke, or fog... it could be detected, especially by thermal vision. Anything strong enough to be a weapon is strong enough to have some thermal blooming.


Making them make a sound or be outright visible is silly. The guns aren't all that great, they're really neat though. They have some advantages and also some real drawbacks. An exotic weapons skill to use them to start. Hard to get power packs w/ very limited shots/pack is another. I don't think they need any more outside nerfing as their 'entry requirements' are already pretty high.

If the laser is in the visual spectrum then yes it could be visible depending if part of the laser light id scattered. If it happens to be in the UV range then no it wouldn't be visible. Thermal may pick up the focal point.