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Panzergeist
If you could make your own entire team of runners, instead of just one at a time, what would they be? What would be your ideal mix, both from a role-playing and pragmatic perspective? My ideal team would be as follows:

The Chemical Crew
An eclectic bunch of runners, the only thing they can agree on is their love of chemistry and home-made weapons. Can be found running the shadows and designing new weapons of destruction in their Redmond lair.

Brutus- Appers to be a stereotypical nigh-indestructible troll merc. However, he is also an expert at ettiquete and negotiation, and the team's nominal leader. His tailored pheromones and cologne collection leave him smelling fine even when covered in the blood of his enemies. A connoseur of fine wines and custom-made guns, and a fan of classical, baroque, and jazz music. Has a taste for irony, hence the name.

Picasso- Physical adept, sniper, assasination "enthusiast" and shadowrunner impressionist, Picasso considers killing people to be the ultimate art form. Whether with a rifle, his delayed-effect killing hands, or a poisoned dart, his victims often end up looking like something from Guernica. Has little interest in anything unrelated to death, poison, and weapons. Almost robotic; the only emotions he displays are contempt, and anticipation of a kill.

Mongoose- The woman who invented the term femme fatale, she's the last and most beautiful thing many men see. Whereas Picasso is a psychopath, she is more of a sociopath, though only the two of them seem to understand the difference. Icy and irritable, she can't seem to get along with anyone but Picasso, who shares her love of assasination, poison, and silenced guns. An expert at stealth, electronics, disguise, and cyber-implant combat. Never seems to be happy, though her teammates could swear she enjoys shooting down all the men who hit on her in the bars the team meets their employers at. Got her name by killing a snake shaman with her bare hands after shrugging off 2 manabolts and a poisoned knife.

Tailwind- The craziest rigger you're ever likely to see, and quite possibly the smallest. This little gnome has takes to vehicles like a redneck to beer and pickup trucks, and is equally capable with choppers, cars, hovercraft and drones. His skill at gunnery is exceeded only by his aptitude for inventing ever more destructive munitions to launch from his vehicles.

Octopus- A drek-hot decker and an expert on electronics, demolitions, and narcotics, Octopus can also more than hold his own in a fight. Often brags that he can do 8 things at once. Indeed, in his spare time he can often be found brewing combat drugs, refining C-4, programming his deck, and reading a book at the same time. He is obsessed with implants, and sports the widest array of cyberware and bioware on the team. He is also a compulsive pedagogue. Because of this, he often cracks into corporate archives out of sheer curiosity, and is usually slotting at least 4 knowsofts at any given time. makes extra money on the side as a drug dealer and info broker.

Noir- Hermetic mage and former Lone Star detective-sergeant. Holds a gruge against the Seattle police chief because of a botched hostage incident which led to his resignation. Seems to have an intense, penetrating gaze cemented onto his face. An expert swordsman, mage, detective and forensic chemist. Often acts as the conscience of the group; he still tries to protect and serve when he gets the chance. Has a way of turning everything into a 1950's detective movie.

Flash- Noir's force ally spirit. Has the personality and physical appearance of a German shepherd, like those used by American police for the last century or more. After 6 months of existence, he has learned to think independently, but his fierce loyalty to Noir hasn't diminished one bit.

Ophelia- A free air elemental, Ophelia rounds out the team's magical talent. Was once summoned by a mage to attack the team. She was able to hold her own against Flash in the astral, but her summoner wasn't so lucky against Noir. A free spirit, so to speak, she is driven primarily by curiosity about metahumanity. Can be found scouting the astral, studying sorcery with Noir, or trying to lighten the team's mood with a joke. She is very flirtatious, especcially with Noir, but so far hasn't managed to do more than annoy the crew with her romantic preocupation. Occasionaly flirst with women too, but only made that mistake with Mongoose once. Her lighthearted attitude and preference for non-violent solutions make her the odd woman out in the crew.



kevyn668
Your team is a bunch of psychos, dude.

I guess if I ran a lot of wetwork ops they'd be ideal, but other than that....

Why don't you throw some stats up here so I can use them against my PCs if they get squirelly on me. smile.gif
Crusher Bob
Gah, too many unstable nuts in your ideal group. One of those guys is going to shoot someone and screw it up for everybody.
FlakJacket
Perfect group? What is this mythical thing that you speak of? biggrin.gif

Seriously? A group of well trained, highly motivated individuals, that whilst are in it as a profession for the money have at least a minimum amount of conscience, loyalty and common sense to be able to draw the line at some things.
Siege
Echo the psycho comment.

-Siege
Tanka
Word.
Munchkinslayer
What is this "crazy equals cool" mentality? I used to GM for a dude that was like that. All his characters had to be leatherfaces -- unstable killing machines. The only way I could keep him in check was to run an powerful NPC with the group. When he got too fruity, he'd get his ass whipped. But he was convinced that his PCs were cool. Now he's got Grave's Disease, also known as Mad Hatter's Disease. He couldn't be happier. Now he has "proof" that he's a nutter. Which is of course proof that he's cool.
Sunday_Gamer
That's a perfect shadowrun team for the upcoming Shadowrun, the Stephen King edition.

Picture whatever the exact opposite of those guys is and that'll be my perfect team.

Gimme 4 guys.

A dark hero type two fisted Ares Predator toting ex-lone star cop with a troubled past and tragic tale of loss and revenge gone too far, let's call him... Nova.

Add a penetration decker with disturbing levels of matrix ability and enough real world skill to handle himself in a fight, let's call him, say Gauge.

Throw in an elf poser Dwarven rigger with a taste for fine wines and elven porn who enjoys doing things like racing a car backwards down a hallway with barely 2 inches to spare on either side while being shot at... We'll call him Legs, that's short for Legolas or Legless depending on who you ask, shortest elf in Seattle.

Top this crazy little cake off with a skateboarding little smartass who just happens to be a shaman of monkey and who insists on living on the streets and giving his money away to people who need it while the rest of his team pulls their hair out, we'll call him, say...Kong.

Now granted, none of us live for the art of killing, but somehow, we manage to have a few laughs.


The perfect team is the one you make with your friends.

Kong
Panzergeist
Oh, my team aren't heartless killers. They love killing, but they only love doing it to people who deserve it. Don't get me wrong, theywould use gel rounds on typical rent-a-cops, but come some red samurai, and it's party time! Shadowrunners are mercenaries people. They don't have to be psychopaths, but they shouldn't be heroes either. If you want to play good guys, use an alternative campaign setting, like SWAT team, or Vigilantes, or FBI, or Doc Wagon HTR team, or anything but fricking freelance black ops men. Personally, I would love to do a Boondock Saints kind of campaign. Picture this: Insane twin razorboy brothers who think that God wants them to wipe out organized crime. An ex-FBI detective who deserted his job to join them. A badass former hitman and hermetic mage who got tired of only killing criminals he was paid to kill. A goofball decker who got tired of being a mafia errand boy. Together, they take on the mafia, seoulpa, triads, organizatsiya, yakuza, street gangs, insect shamans, toxic spirits, corrupt cops, and anyone else who preys on the people of Seattle. And the ex-agent could act like William Dafoe, which would rock.
Crusher Bob
Sally Red Buttons (Ork Sam/Weapons Specialist)
Quote: Gah! Bosnia was better than this.
Former UCAS Drill sergeant. Mother and father were killed in {horrible accident} leaving Sally’s 10+ younger brothers and sisters without a means of support. Unable to feed such a crowd on a sergeant’s pay, Sally has turned to running to feed, clothe, educate, and so her sibling.

Roadkill (Dwarf Adept)
Quote: Medical kit check, gun check, armor check, maybe it’s safe to get out of bed.
Roadkill (got his name from being in a hit and run accident while sitting in his living room) is just unlucky. He used to have a nice normal job but then things just started to go wrong. If a piece of a plane is going to fall off into Seattle, Roadkill is the one it’s going to hit. Because of things like this he plans everything (the last time he slacked off a bunch of devil rats crawled out of his toilet and bit him in sensitive places).

Tao (Elf Mage/Face)
Quote: I am Johnson, you are Tao. Let us reason together.
Tao like screwing with people’s heads. He’s great at getting info out of people, or talking his way past security, just don’t get into any heart to heart conversations with him or you’ll wind up doing something really embarrassing (and thinking it was your idea all along).

Turing (Human Decker/Drone Rigger)
Quote: I can sleep late, the money’s good, and they let me use machine guns.
Former MIT student. a bit queer for technology, but other wise a good guy. Basically he seeks the excitement that he gets out of using ‘all this cool stuff’. He provides the team’s surveillance and decking support.

There, not your regular collection of amnesiac killing machines.
Panzergeist
You should have seen my tech wiz character I ran a year ago. He had the compulsive-goofing off flaw. Basicly, he would turn anything into a practical joke. Once, he almost blew a run by replacing another character's SMG ammo with blanks. Another time, he replaced a slaughtering sammy's combat drugs with ecstacy. His excuse? The roid-raging troll needed to lighten up. And I believe I used the hollowed-out maglock passkey no less than 3 times.
Munchkinslayer
That guy'd get a terminal case of lead poisoning if I had a PC was on that team. And just how do red samurai "deserve" to be killed?
LoseAsDirected
Troll Physical Adept, high ass Mystic Armor, Improved Initiative, and a Dikoted Claymore (Weapon Foci would be wiz). Exception Attribute (Body)

Elf Street Samurai, Wired Reflexes 3, Dermal Sheath 3, Titanium Bone Lacing, Smartlink II with Range Finder and extra Induction Pad. 8 pt Ambidexterity edge and dual SMGs. Exceptional Attribute (Quickness)

Albino Gnome Mage with Exception Attribute (Willpower), 'nuf said. Maybe a hold-out pistol.

Elven Face/Weapon Specialist with mostly Bioware, and only a few pieces of cyber.. Aptitude (Negoitation), Good Reputation 2, Friendly Face, Cultured Tailored Pheromones. Uses mostly pistols.

Human Otaku with Cerebral Booster, Encephalon 2, Math SPU 3.. Uses pistols and has good electronics and computer skills.

Ork Vehicle Rigger/Mercenary. Dermal Sheath, Titanium Bone Lacing, VCR, Smartlink.. Shotguns. Uses Rotocraft. Exceptional Attribute (Intelligence)

Dwarven Drone Rigger/Gadgeteer/Demolitions Expert. Good gunnery skill, tons of vehicle skills (rotocraft, car, vtol).. I'd like 'em to have multiple drones that can combine to make one bad ass drone.

Sure, it's munchkiny.. But it would be an effective group.. It would be an ideal group.. You said nothing about being good for roleplaying..

Connor
Here's my rundown:

Murphy
Human Mercenary, ex-special forces. The team leader and the one who keeps everything moving in a professional manner. He keeps the hijinks down to a minimum and makes sure everything gets done as smoothly as possible.

Jester
Elven Coyote Shaman. A talented spell caster with a penchant for the dramatic. Even so, he knows when to set it aside and be professional. His arsenal of spells are wide and varied and he's highly skilled in using effectively.

Grumn
Troll Street Sam. The muscle of the group. Although he may seem to be the stereotypical dumb troll behind it all he's rather shrewed and aware of the situtation. However he does like to play it a bit fast and loose, but it never seems to outweigh his usefulness.

Chade
Human Phys Ad from the NAN. An all around sort of guy, good at infiltration and close quarters combat.

Damien
Human Mage. Focusing on non-combat magics. A soft-hearted guy who would have probably entered the medical field if the shadows hadn't swallowed him up first. He'd probably turn into a Street Doc after his time in the field is up.

Aerilaya
Elven Combat Decker. A very capable decker, able to do just about anything needed on a job. She can also handle herself if things go sour.

Eric
Dwarf Rigger/Decker. Overwatch, vehicles, drones, security systems. All these things he can handle. He's also picked up a bit of a feel for the Matrix if he's needed in that regard.


Of course, I wouldn't normally see all of them on a job together all of the time, but more of a group that mostly works together in some configuration or another to fit the job at hand.
Glyph
The perfect shadowrun team is something you will rarely get unless either the GM sets the roles people can play, or the players literally design their characters as a collaborative process. Most of the time, you will have a hodgepodge of characters, and a team that is super-strong in some areas while weak in others. Heck, you are lucky if you don't have an ex-Humanis (but still sympathetic towards them) human, an elf-hating ork ganger, and an elf from the Tir who thinks elves are the ultimate superior beings, along with an albino gnome fenrir sorcerer and a lesbian stripper night one with a balance tail and cyberfangs.


This thread starting up is funny, though, because, just for fun, I had started working up a team, using the basic book only, composed of all orks. Their background is that they are a mix of ex-corporate and ambitious street types who all encountered racism in some form or another, got sick of beating their heads against a wall, and decided to go freelance - several of them were acquaintances, who got together, saw they could work well together, and recruited a few more members. They are a very tough, thoroughly professional group. I am still working their stats, and I don't have more than a bare-bones background at the moment. Currently, they are:

Ellen Richter - decker/gun adept
Nick Lane - adept/break-in and close combat specialist
Rick Hunter - ex-bodyguard (the tank of the group)
Dan Scarsdale - ex-company man (the speed sammie of the group)
Mitch Darston - rigger, with a getaway car, an ATV, and some combat/surveillance drones
John Coburn - combat sorcerer/Gator totem
Quinn Arlington - hermetic mage/face
Shadow
QUOTE (kevyn668 @ Jan 21 2004, 06:56 PM)
Your team is a bunch of psychos, dude.

I guess if I ran a lot of wetwork ops they'd be ideal, but other than that....

Why don't you throw some stats up here so I can use them against my PCs if they get squirelly on me.  smile.gif

And I am sure perfectly sane, well balanced and adjusted people line up and take a number to be Shadowrunners.

Well adjusted, and balanced individuals fit into society, they get a long. They do not carry guns around and commit crimes just by breathing.

Now people who can't handle society, who have severe mental and emotional problems do one of two things. They become Army Rangers or Shadowrunners.

Come one people, not everyone is the picture of mental health, give the guy a break.
Playing Games
Take playing Games,crazy SOD.He didn't fear anything,at all.He didn't care about killing.If he killed someone,or didn't kill them,it didn't mater.He wouldn't pull his pounches for any reason other than the goal of the job.If the JOB was to kill a buss load of nuns, and feed them to blood spirits,that is what happened.He never went out of his way to kill, but killing wasn't wrong to him.People died,he killed people, no point in crying over it.
MrSandman666
QUOTE (Shadow)

Well adjusted, and balanced individuals fit into society, they get a long. They do not carry guns around and commit crimes just by breathing.

Now people who can't handle society, who have severe mental and emotional problems do one of two things. They become Army Rangers or Shadowrunners.


And then there's all those people between perfectly sane and totally insane and unstable.
Many Shadowrunners do what they do because they found that it pays well enough, because they just don't want to adjust to society or because some unlucky twist of fate left them no other choice. Granted, most of them, if not all, have a little mental problem. I make a point of making my characters somewhat... special... in that regard. Most of my characters have some kind of mental or social problem. And if it is only that they're going to do anything just to get the adrenaline kick or that they're BTL addicts or whatever. Or take Ohanzee for example. I wouldn't call him a psycho. He's one of my favorite characters to play here on the boards. For those interested, he is/was starring in: Threat and Favour, The Warehouse Job, Burnt Magna and Horror Express on the old boards.

If I where a Johnson and knew who I was dealing with, I wouldn't even dream to hire a team like that proposed by Panzergeist. And I have serious problems seeing those guys using gel ammo when not being paid specificaly for it. They are so instable and so different from each other that inner-team conflicts are preprogrammed. Thanks a lot, I played with those kinds of characters one time too often...

However, it's all a matter of flavor.
I personally tend to run more dark and gloomy campaigns, going for a more 'realistic' setting (well, as realistic as an RPG like Shadowrun can get, at least), based on thinking and strategy and not so much on action. Not many players share this attitude, unfortunately.
In my games that group wouldn't survive for long but your mileage may vary.
cykotek
Uriel ("AT&T...my rifle. It means never having to say you're sorry!") - Human Saeder-Krupp Special Operations Colonel placed beyond sanction during a field mission-gone-wrong. Entered the Seattle shadows to survive until he can find his way back to family. Cold, heartless, and utterly ruthless when needed, he still has a heart buried deep inside. Long list of implants optimized for raw reaction (on par with MBW-4) and sniping ability. Original organizer of group, manufactures cocaine to provide living expenses and finance team emergencies. Speed freak on four wheels.

Gabriel ("Who do we hate in Abu-Dabi?") - Mercenary commander assigned under Uriel in the field. Became partner in crime in Seattle, though has no family to speak of to return to. Ork heavy weapons specialist and motorcycle freak. Implants include reflex enhancement (though not to extent of other teammates), durability and strength enhancements, and rigging capabilities. Skilled in hand to hand combat. Almost as hard as Uriel, but kept more of his "human side" alive.

Lucifer ("Yeah, I can kick down a fire door") - aka, Alice. Human Renraku executive, running the shadows for the thrill. Complete and total sociopath. Specializing in hand to hand combat (katana) and raw speed, speed, speed. Impant list consists of primarily high-grade move-by-wire system 4. Has an on-again, off-again relationship with Uriel.

This was the core of a team of a rather long-run group. We had others come and go (an adept, a couple of magicians, a rigger, a cyber-fetishist), but if it wasn't magical or matrix based, these three could do it. And Uriel usually had enough solvent cash to buy top-line magical support and matrix support when needed. We added a magician to the real core group eventually, but never got him into the angel theme.
MrSandman666
Nice theme for the names.

Since when does Katana count as hand-to-hand? Did I miss something?
The Jopp
Ideal Shadowrun Team= NPC's
cykotek
QUOTE (MrSandman666)
Since when does Katana count as hand-to-hand? Did I miss something?

Hand to hand, melee, in my gaming experience they're usually used interchangeably.

The names turned into a real gimmick for us. I started out with Uriel, the assassin, and my herald, Gabriel. Eventually we recruited Alice, and she chose the name "Lucifer".

Then I started going all out. I purchased Anchoring/Sustaining foci for us all with a trid phantasm spell to give us all angel wings. My normal mode of dress was a dark suit of the "this tie cost more than your car" style. Gabriel went in for the black, armored biker leathers look. When Alice joined the team, she decided to go with a white leather bodysuit (being the light-bringer, and all).

We all had dermal sheathing with the ruthenium option, so at meets, we'd change our skin tones to an ethereal white, make our eyes (all cybered, of course) look like an infinite starry void. We had voice mods done that were linked to our headware radios. That way, anytime one of us spoke, the others echoed it in a Greek chorus effect, offset from each other my just enough to sound creepy, but not to hinder the ability to understand our speech. We called ourselves the Angels, and made quite a rep for ourselves.

And how Uriel and Lucifer got on at all outside of business without tearing each other's throats out is still completely beyond me.
Xirces
Next team member needs to be Islington.

With a nod to Gaiman.
kevyn668
QUOTE
Shadow Posted on Jan 22 2004, 07:54 AM
  QUOTE (kevyn668 @ Jan 21 2004, 06:56 PM)
Your team is a bunch of psychos, dude.

I guess if I ran a lot of wetwork ops they'd be ideal, but other than that....

Why don't you throw some stats up here so I can use them against my PCs if they get squirelly on me.   


And I am sure perfectly sane, well balanced and adjusted people line up and take a number to be Shadowrunners.

Well adjusted, and balanced individuals fit into society, they get a long. They do not carry guns around and commit crimes just by breathing.

Now people who can't handle society, who have severe mental and emotional problems do one of two things. They become Army Rangers or Shadowrunners.

Come one people, not everyone is the picture of mental health, give the guy a break. 


ohplease.gif

I don't have any problem w/ Panzergeist. I said I liked his team but as NPC antagonists as opposed to PCs. If I was a player in that group, well, I'd have no choice but to run w/ them and I'd have fun doing it, BTW. If I was a character in the SR world, I'd politely decline. I mean, c'mon there are at least 2 full blown ASSASSINS on that team! And most of the rest enjoy killing! I know running the shadows isn't exactly a "safe work environment" but hanging out w/ crazed killer shortens your life expectancy dramatically...

On a related note: I believe that having a "heartless killing machine" and then saying that he/she does have a heart buried beneath the rough exterior is a) a cop out and b) contrary by nature. You're one or the other. You should play that way. I think players sometimes set it up that way so they can be nice to the "diamond in the rough": the cute street girl. Whereas they should be putting her face first through the sloppy soy vending machine.

The character I've made over the years have pretty much the same mentality. "Killing is occasionally part of what they do". They don't enjoy it but don't see anything wrong w/ it either, for the most part. They are not murderous monsters w/ a heart of gold. They're just trying to thier job.

Sorry about the rant. I've just seen too many "His eyes are cold and have seen death many times. Often at the ends of his own hands. You can tell he enjoys his work and is just as likely to gun you down where you stand as he is to go eat a sandwich. But if you look close, you can just tell that, deep down, there is something good about this man..." usually coupled w/ "Oh, and he dates a bisexual elven stripper that works part at the childrens' shelter and he contributes much of his income to that establishment."

WTF?
Siege

Ok, let me explain why I qualify this crew as a bunch of fruit loops. Underlines added for emphasis.

Some of the character descriptions are quite elegant, but still...

Brutus:
QUOTE
His tailored pheromones and cologne collection leave him smelling fine even when covered in the blood of his enemies.


QUOTE
Picasso- Physical adept, sniper, assasination "enthusiast" and shadowrunner impressionist, Picasso considers killing people to be the ultimate art form. Whether with a rifle, his delayed-effect killing hands, or a poisoned dart, his victims often end up looking like something from Guernica.  Has little interest in anything unrelated to death, poison, and weapons.  Almost robotic; the only emotions he displays are contempt, and anticipation of a kill.


QUOTE
Mongoose-  The woman who invented the term femme fatale, she's the last and most beautiful thing many men see.  Whereas Picasso is a psychopath, she is more of a sociopath, though only the two of them seem to understand the difference.  Icy and irritable, she can't seem to get along with anyone but Picasso, who shares her love of assasination, poison, and silenced guns.  An expert at stealth, electronics, disguise, and cyber-implant combat.  Never seems to be happy, though her teammates could swear she enjoys shooting down all the men who hit on her in the bars the team meets their employers at.  Got her name by killing a snake shaman with her bare hands after shrugging off 2 manabolts and a poisoned knife.


Tailwind, the rigger: nutty but I suppose the best riggers are a little unstable?

Octopus:
QUOTE
Indeed, in his spare time he can often be found brewing combat drugs, refining C-4, programming his deck, and reading a book at the same time.


Noir:
The singular conscience of the group? He tries to protect and serve while working side-by-side with a psycopath and a serial killer?

-Siege
nezumi
Samson (face, street sam) - effectively sold by his racist father into the urban combat games. As a minotaur of exceptional strength, he was highly effective. He was employed with CAT as an intimidation tool for interrogation and negotiation. He's realized that the only way he can get up the corporate ladder is to start removing the ware and make some friends, however he can't get rid of the ware until he makes it higher up the corporate ladder (hence, he runs so he can afford a bit more leeway). Strength of 28, but prefers to talk his way through situations.

Thomas Benson (mage) - taught thaumatology at Seattle's School for the Talented and Gifted about five years ago. For some reason, he didn't turn into an ork until he was almost 30, however the metamorphisis resulted in his immediate termination (to justify said termination, he was framed as a child molestor, which killed his career). As such, he's been forced to go underground and hooked up with running through a friend at his Ork support meeting.

Phyllis Dyssal III (rigger, decker) - he started rigging as a hobby, and his rich parents happily funded the endeavors. Unfortunately, when he made it clear he'd prefer to become a grand prix driver rather than work under his father as another corper, his parents made it quite clear that he'd receive no further financial assistance until he changed his mind. He's joined up in running for the excitement and until he can get himself accepted as a race car driver. His parents funding has allowed him to dabble in decking as well, but that's not his forte.

Fidelis (dog shaman) - country bumpkin. Dog led him here and he has no idea why. Keeps getting funny looks from the rest of the group when he eats grass or rolls in poo. However, he is as loyal and kindhearted as they get.

Stryker - hot decker, fast shooter, total dork. His parents owned the firm that helped build Zurich orbital, however his father died and his mother disappeared for years. When she resurfaced on the orbital, she reclaimed his inheritance and has resisted any attempts to communicate. As a youth, he admired Dodger above all else, and as such is a serious elf poser (which isn't helped by the fact that he's about 100lbs overweight). Since he was raised alone on his mansion estate in New York state, he has almost no social skills and lacks the cool or confidence to get anyone to believe him more than an acne covered boy who's watched too much trid.

I like Kong's group better. Half of these characters I'm actually using now in games, and none of them are exceptionally insane.
Tiralee
QUOTE
lesbian stripper night one with a balance tail and cyberfangs.


Damn, someone beat me to it!?!

I'll throw in the albino Eagle Shapeshifter mage adept for a laugh.


L:
kevyn668
For the record, I think having just semi-crazed killer in the gorup is fun and adds flavor. Like Billy the Kid ("Young Guns"), Kid Stealth, or Smiley (NightskyFan Fiction. The best I've come across, BTW).

They come in handy smile.gif But when there's more than one, it gets kinda old hat.
Siege
Kid Stealth was a professional assassin -- from the various stories I've read, he didn't take any particular pleasure from completing a contact. Except perhaps in technical merit.

Billy the Kid was a gunfighter and a robber, but he wasn't a serial or thrill killer. Insofar as I am aware, he did not kill indiscriminately or wantonly and although sheer speculation on my part, didn't glory in the act of taking life.

Sorry, don't know Smiley.

The point being, there is a fine line between nuts who enjoy their work way too much and experts taking a professional approach to the job.

-Siege
MrSandman666
I have to agree that playing with slightly crazed characters every once in a while can be great fun. You just have to be aware that you're game is degrading to a comic series at that point. Now, comic series can be fun! It's all a matter of taste.

Uhm... now why did I post this again? Argh... brain... falling... apart dead.gif
toturi
I had a group of PCs from GMing during my old army days.

Two of a Kind - Wild Card Inc.

Hannibal - Former mercenary, now returned to the city in order to keep an eye on his daughter(dependent) who is unaware of her parentage. Ex-Desert Wars MVS. Tactical genius with Tac Comp, BattleTac Master etc.

Revenant - A former Spec Ops with few memories of his past(Amnesiac), gets flashbacks from his past every so often. Talented unarmed combat adept and sniper. Service Records: 1 Distingushed Service Cross, 1 Silver Star and Bronze Star with 4 repeats (5), surprisingly only 1 Purple Heart. Chummy with Tir Prince Larry Zincan.

Caesar - Hanni's second in command, rigger. Former HTR pilot for DocWagon. Provides physical overwatch and extraction.

Spike and Emp - SURGED troll bounty hunter and his human otaku sister. He used to hunt bounties for Draco Foundation (Arleesh). His sister Emp is smarter than most geniuses (base Int 9) and decks Z-O for the challenge. Regularly plays chess with the Fates(Z-O sysadmins).

Ama - Human Sun Shaman. Former Doc Wagon trauma doctor and friend of Caesar's. Has a freed spirit ally Kami.

Bishop - Human Fire-bringer Shamanist. Former parish priest in South Alabama until a Humanis firebomb attack burned down his church and killed his family.

Orkov - Cybered Ork bodyguard, helped save Bishop from Humanis.

Slice - Human decker, specialising in on-site data steals. Emphasis on stealth.

Basically, this team has 2 of everything. 2 Sams, 2 Riggers(ok, the other just has a datajack and a Car skill), 2 adepts, 2 deckers, 2 spell slingers.
Velocity
What the hell... my hat was just sitting here, I may as well throw it in the ring.

[CAVEAT]
I am most emphatically NOT trying to cast aspersions on the roleplaying abilities of anyone here at Dumpshock, regardless of the types of characters they're discussed and/or posted to this thread. We're all roleplayers of the highest calibre (badum-bum), true thespians of the fantastical. Geniuses, the lot of us.
[/CAVEAT]

The chief problem with playing the role of a "crazy" character (and I use that term loosely) is that nine times out of ten it's an excuse for lazy roleplaying. The unfortunate truth is that many people seem to think that mental illness creates inconsistency. Maybe it stems from a fear of the "insane" (again, a term so broad as to be basically useless) and a need to deny them any real agency or coherency; I dunno.

What I do know is that most people who define their character as "nuts" are looking for a free ride, roleplaying-wise. They want to dodge the need for consistency. The player's logic is that if the character is "crazy," then they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, without having to justify or rationalize the behaviour. No-one can ever accuse these PCs of playing "out-of-character" because there is no real character: just a rampaging id in leather pants.
cykotek
I'm going to throw in a little clarification, considering the "good heart buried" comment kevyn tossed out (just keep in mind, I'm clarifying my own description).

In the cases that I've seen in my roleplaying experience (an my case specifically), the people I tend to play with have a good reason. In Uriel's case, he was able to achieve the cognitive disconnect necessary to do what had to be done at the time, and deal with it later. He was doing anything that needed to be done until he could return to his family. In fact, the "dealing with it later" actually resulting in a rather jarring mental breakdown on his part (which was definately an intense roleplaying session). In the end, it was all part of the job, and he paid for it in full, managed to reunite with his family, then had them torn away again. Good times.
kevyn668
QUOTE
Velocity Posted on Jan 22 2004, 03:36 PM
  What the hell... my hat was just sitting here, I may as well throw it in the ring.

[CAVEAT]
I am most emphatically NOT trying to cast aspersions on the roleplaying abilities of anyone here at Dumpshock, regardless of the types of characters they're discussed and/or posted to this thread. We're all roleplayers of the highest calibre (badum-bum), true thespians of the fantastical. Geniuses, the lot of us.
[/CAVEAT]

The chief problem with playing the role of a "crazy" character (and I use that term loosely) is that nine times out of ten it's an excuse for lazy roleplaying. The unfortunate truth is that many people seem to think that mental illness creates inconsistency. Maybe it stems from a fear of the "insane" (again, a term so broad as to be basically useless) and a need to deny them any real agency or coherency; I dunno.

What I do know is that most people who define their character as "nuts" are looking for a free ride, roleplaying-wise. They want to dodge the need for consistency. The player's logic is that if the character is "crazy," then they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, without having to justify or rationalize the behaviour. No-one can ever accuse these PCs of playing "out-of-character" because there is no real character: just a rampaging id in leather pants. 


That was my earlier point. Hang intestines from the rafters one day (or scene) and save the orphans from a burning house the next. Cop out.
MrSandman666
QUOTE (cykotek)

In Uriel's case, he was able to achieve the cognitive disconnect necessary to do what had to be done at the time, and deal with it later. He was doing anything that needed to be done until he could return to his family. In fact, the "dealing with it later" actually resulting in a rather jarring mental breakdown on his part (which was definately an intense roleplaying session). In the end, it was all part of the job, and he paid for it in full, managed to reunite with his family, then had them torn away again.


Wow, I draw my (non-existant) hat before you! Couldn't have done it any better! And believe me, I'm good with characters like that. At least I think that I am...
kevyn668
QUOTE
cykotek Posted on Jan 22 2004, 04:01 PM
  I'm going to throw in a little clarification, considering the "good heart buried" comment kevyn tossed out (just keep in mind, I'm clarifying my own description).

In the cases that I've seen in my roleplaying experience (an my case specifically), the people I tend to play with have a good reason. In Uriel's case, he was able to achieve the cognitive disconnect necessary to do what had to be done at the time, and deal with it later. He was doing anything that needed to be done until he could return to his family. In fact, the "dealing with it later" actually resulting in a rather jarring mental breakdown on his part (which was definately an intense roleplaying session). In the end, it was all part of the job, and he paid for it in full, managed to reunite with his family, then had them torn away again. Good times.


Cool. You, my friend, clearly do not fall into the "cop out" category. I did slap that "holier than thou" paintbrush around pretty wide. Sorry about that to all of you that thought through/can explain why your character is the way he or she is, be it "unbalanced" or have the "good heart buried" syndrome. You know who you are. wink.gif

As for those that do not fit the above criteria, and I suspect you may not know (or even if you do), my opinion shouldn't bother you that much. Hell, if I were a betting man, I'd wager that I do some things you wouldn't approve of. smile.gif
Tom Collins
My ideal shadowrunning group is one where the players have half a clue between them. Honestly, almost any mix of PCs can preform runs (certain runs may be more difficult than other depending on their resources) assuming the players are not trigger happy maniacs. The groups that solve everything with a gun are the ones that always seem to end up in trouble, regardless of how cool their PCs are.
JackWill
My team is almost perfect.. a litte green behind the ears.. and abit heavy on the melee.. but the better for me.. i can run and do my things.. i tend to make characters that don't fire a gun but only use it to itimidate people and when combat breaks out i finish the job we were sent on!

Right nows its ...
Kalaeb - My decker/rigger get away guy.
Steve Jackson- Combat decker with electronics background
Ichi- A razor child.. he a youngin
Jek - "gun bunny"
Mani- a middle eastern dwarf demo expert
Loki - our troll muscel and heavy weapons support
Nemo - a troll vending machine

We lack a mage.. so i would say scratch the Nemo, Jek, or Ichi for the mage.. or just add the mage in.


It pretty funny we are running for a mafia man and he wants us to make his clients pay up.. they all run shops in a Mall in the carolina megasprawl.. and so far.. we just been quite upfront with it.. some gangers took a chunk out of ichi and ichi caugh some shot gun shot in the back while Nemo unloaded.
Panzergeist
I just created 2 characters for the fun of it. One is a mad scientist with an extremely varied array skills and ware. He is an amateur combat decker, but he specializes in electronics, electronics and computer BR, and chemistry. He'll be like a mentally unstable version of Q from James Bond. The other character is a gnome racoon shaman with no weapon skills whatsoever. He has the unarmed skill and shock gloves, and his spells, but couldn't use a gun or melee weapon to save his life. He carries all 5 kinds of fetishes, including a toy squirt pistol enchanted as a combat fetish which he carries in a tiny holster and keeps loaded with tobasco sauce, onion juice, or similarly tear-inducing household chemicals. He's been a bit crazy ever since he tried to astrally travel to Zurich Orbital.
Nova
QUOTE (Sunday_Gamer)
Gimme 4 guys.

A dark hero type two fisted Ares Predator toting ex-lone star cop with a troubled past and tragic tale of loss and revenge gone too far, let's call him... Nova.

*AHEM*

Colt Manhunters if you please.

biggrin.gif

Nova
Mace
Well, I don't know if I'd call it the ideal team, but the following is the two teams that my players have tossed at me (two different groups, one online, one not.) Personally, I find one balanced, the other not quite so - but both get the job done.

Team 1

Shade - Elf Combat Mage/Face - Charisma out the wazoo girl chasing Amerind. When it's time to whip out the mojo, look out - he could have twice the number of spells he does if he didn't insist on learning what he does have at truly obscene force. Variety of spells but manipulations are his dish - Influence being his favourite. Given half a chance would rather bullshit/negotiate his way through/past things before resorting to 'the other solution'.

Friday - Physad Panther Shifter - (I can hear the groans but actually, done well) - Stealth and Unarmed are her two big things and sneaky as hell. Infiltration expert. Faster than a cheetah with a hot chilli enema - rip your head off and be out the door before anyone has time to blink.

Mace - Troll Physical Adept - Friday's the speed, this is the strength. Bushido type who runs as a way to make enough money to stay out of the Barrens he grew up in. Claymore specialist - good with small arms and unarmed, throwing knives. An all rounder with Smashing Blow for those times you don't have time to pick the lock or be subtle. Endurance freak - also a SNAT. Plays guitar and a qualified massage therapist.

Hornet - Human Mercenary - A long time survivor of many a firefight, bush-war skirmishes and assorted nasty little incidents, got into running after an encounter with the shifter and being hired on. Impressed with his professionalism they took him on as a full team member - after a little thought went with it. Probably the most ruthless of the team and the quickest to turn lethal, still happiest when he puts the guns away unfired. If it goes bang - he knows how to shoot it, repair it and modify it. Gunsmith - explosives - tactics.

Yashmak - Ork Samurai - Originally part of the same Barrens gang as Mace, a cybered up street brawling ork sam with a survival instict. His idea of a good time is getting drunk, visiting a brothel, a nice freindly pub brawl. Almost as fast as the merc to switch to lethal tactics - and categorically refuses to be seperated from his 'lucky' Manhunter.

Fish - Human Decker - Californian surfer dude and general all around computer geek in one. Absolutely no pain tolerance at all and on those rare occassions forced to go physically to work, hides behind the troll. If it involves computers or electronics though, he's the one to deal with it. Compulsive Hacker - and good enough he considers Red 10 to be challenging enough to pay full attention but nothing to really sweat.

Sophie - Human Rigger/Chemist/Technician - Former Ares test pilot who for various reasons got out of the corp. The team pacifist - and the one with the biggest guns. Chemical expert and all her drones pack non-lethal options - usually a squirt and appropriate drugs - pays the price to get the gamma scop and considers it money well spent. Devoted metahuman rights activist - she WILL kill but prefers not to. It's definitly the last choice and only if in doing so prevents others dying. Finds her sleep much less disturbed by the death of Humanis terrorists and other racial extremists though. Still idealistic.

Kitten - Human Cat Shaman/Medic. A child prodigy barely past the age of 20 who has been nicknamed "Doogie" behind her back, a qualified trauma specialist doctor with a more than working knowledge of bioware and cybernetics - including installation and repairs. A more than capable illusionist and health spells specialising shaman. Emphasis on stealth is the teams forte - her spells help as do her spirits. She's also very good at putting people back together when stealth don't cut it. Runs a clinic in the Barrens, does a lot of free health care for those who can't afford it - and runs to help keep the place open - drugs and medical equipment cost.

Of the two teams, this one is the more 'moral' - they'll only take 'wetwork' jobs when they all think the target needs whacking and it's the only viable choice, they don't do datasteals - recovery is another matter - etc. Humanis and nasty little corporate operations are thier meat and drink to go to work against - this team's caused any number of corp PR flacks heart palpitations and massive overtime.


Team 2

Tisha - Human Physad - A former gang enforcer who's turned to running as the next step up. Dragonslayer follower. Avoids killing - beats the ever living hell out of them though she does very well. Unarmed is her gig - and better beat up than dead. Still young - not yet 20 - and a lot left to learn but a street veteran. Pit fights for cash as well.

Raechel - Human Physad - Normal suburban family existance and trained at a dojo till a nasty incident in her late teens left her without a family. After taking out with extreme prejudice the gang responsible sought to end her life but wound up being taken under the wing of an ork fixer. He put her to work - still emotionally withdrawn in many ways she's slowly putting herself back together - the fixer uses her as muscle and gives her work towards her 'redemption'. Melee specialist - unlike Tisha, uses a staff or a No-Dachi for choice. Also like Tisha - refuses to take life unless it's thoroughly deserved.

Wendy - Human Shaman - Seductress Totem. The original 'good time girl' Wendy is a Korean American - a former member of a Sepoula ring which sought to avenge her parents death in the Yakuza purge, co-lead with her sister. Ring made defunct for a while and later gotten out from under the Yakuza thumb again. Stayed working as a runner, while her sister is putting the Ring back together again. Impulsive at times and more inclined to lethality than most in the team.

Crunch - Dwarf Rigger/Tech - If it involves cars, mechanics, drones or electronics, this is the guy the team turns to. Drone rigger, mad keen car driver, former smuggler. A more than dab hand with a computer and a reasonably capable decker to boot - gadget mad. Has a SuperKombi affectionatley dubbed 'The Beast' which the rest of the team insisted he install 'Oh Jesus' bars into for a command vehicle. Team co-ordinatoor and organiser though there's no one 'leader' this is the guy who keeps everyone on track and focused.

Lonely - Human Physad - (Yes, another one) - Gunbunny/Stealth expert - former military who was dragged into spec-ops and then into the spooks. Bad incident and operation gone wrong left him out in the cold and with massive scarring - he's been a long time recovering. Hands down the quickest of the group to turn lethal - ruthless streak. Has a liking of cats but tends to emotional distance - something of a smartass and the quickest to tease the rest of the group. Steady and dependable though - sniper/support tends to be the role though he does insertion with the team as well at times.

Dee - Elven Decker - The teams comp specialist and a passing fair hand from her days in the Barrens growing up and being part of a gang with blade, handgun and shotgun she can hold up her end of a firefight. The smartest of the group but generally content to let others formulate the plans and strategy, then support and steeer if she feels the plan needs nudging. Something of a party girl, likes her booze and drugs - and the other things money can buy. Runs for it - and no real compunctions about whatever it is that the job entails.

SH - Human Sam/Face - A former assassin who has left the East Coast and taken up running in Seattle. Still has no real issues with wetwork - provided the target isn't what he considers an 'innocent'. If you're a criminal or a predator on the Joe Average though, you're fair game - and no problem with taking on other sorts of work. The team clotheshorse who's fashion sense leaves most of the rest of the team blinking he has a thing for synth music - and certain unusual habits. For all his quirks though, this latest member of the team has earned his stripes - and proven handy to have around when it turns to shit.


Much less fussy about the type of work this team still has a few lines they won't cross. Tend to be less stealthy but still employ it liberally - until it's no longer needed or because of the job type when stealth isn't wanted. Wetworks, recoveries, thefts, a bug hunt, surveillance - they'll take it on if the compensation package is worth it and it don't bother thier conscience - some of them are lacking in as strong a one as some of the others but most of them have one.


There you have them. Ideal? Well, that's very dependant on viewpoint. Both teams though differing wildly in method and 'level' of operation have proven determined - and capable of getting the job done. The important thing IMO - we have fun. That's why we all bother, neh?
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