So, a few questions I've been having regarding various areas where lack of specification on weapon sizes are a bit frustrating:

Normal weapon mounts for vehicles and drones say they can take weapons that are LMG size or smaller, but offer nothing specifying what is or isn't bigger than a LMG. (a few cases are obvious - MMGs and HMGs are bigger, assault rifles on down are smaller - but with others, it's hard to say)


On a similar note, external mounts on cyberarms take weapons that are SMG size or smaller. Again, what is or isn't bigger than a SMG?


The concealment table gives numbers for pistols and automatics, but not for longarms or heavy weapons; where should these fall?

Normal Weapon mounts for vehicles and drones take: LMG's,Assult Rifles,Shotguns,Sniper Rifles,Sport Rifles,
SMG's,Machine Pistols,Pistols and Tasers (I would also allow MGL-6 ( PISTOL-size Granade Launcher (IMO) )
External mounts on cyberarms take: SMG's, Machine Pistols,Pistols and Tasers
For Concealment Table: Assult Rifles and Katana +6 (i would give same for Shotguns and Sport Rifles)
For Sniper Rifles and Heavy Weapons: Not Concealable (IMO)unless breakdowned

Don't forget you can always get the weapons resized for a Dwarf or Troll, just to really confuse the issue. *grin*

As a GM myself, I agree completely. As a general rule of thumb, deciding weapon size is best handled IMO by looking at all previous weapon-type entries. Ex: Smaller than LMG would be everything listed before LMGs are in the books. Anything afterward would be regarded as larger than LMG.

Although that gets interesting when comparing Machine Pistols, which in the core book are listed after heavy pistols, but in Arsenal are placed before them...

One could also handwave something from the underbarrel weapon rules. The underbarrel weapon has to be smaller than the main one, so grenade launchers and shotguns should be smaller than assault rifles.

..as for size of the Machine Pistols, RL Machine Pistols: Beretta 93 (size of Beretta M92) and Glock 18 (size of Glock 17)
so no problem..

My thinking about this is that I'd just design my combo assault rifle-grenade launcher and write "whichever one is smaller is the underbarrel weapon." It'd work either way... It'd just depend which ammo capacity you'd halve.

I don't really see any reason that some weapon types can't be considered the same size. After all, the size of an assault rifle is just a generalization as you get into various makes and models. Consulting SR4A and its concealability table (as the OP mentioned), you know the following at least:

Holdouts
\/
Light pistols
\/
Heavy Pistols
\/
Machine Pistols
\/
SMG
\/
Assault rifles

From there as the OP mentioned there is no mention of any of the longarms or heavy weapons, but from experience, a sport rifle and assault rifle arn't all that much different in size, as an assault rifle is really just a lower power sport rifle with a modified action to be able to fire automatic. Shotguns are really in the same category as well.

So I would put ARs, Shotguns, and sport rifles as the same size for concealability and underbarrel attachements. This can also be infered again from the fact that many ARs come with underbarrel shotguns/grenade launchers.

From there it breaks down if your trying to find it in a book.
I would put sniper rifles as bigger than the AR category (+8?), and would consider putting LMGs in the same category.

The MGL-6 says it pistol size, so I would put it in either heavy or machine pistol category. MGL-12 being a bullpup design, I'd put in the AR category, along with the standard underbarrel grenade mount, and Antioch-2. The GL-67 would go in the LMGs.

Anything bigger than that I would just put at +10 or so. Unfortunately, I can see some people getting a really high palming DP and somehow getting a missile launcher through a pat down.

Yeah, i thought about that too. I had assumed that this is due to the fact that they usually come with larger clips for higher capacity. The lowest ammo capacity for a MP is 20 rounds while most of them run at 30-35 rounds. I would consider that the gun itself would be the same as a light or heavy pistol for concealability if the clip is removed. At least in most cases.

In SR3, there was a "Not concealable" category It might be a good idea to use that too. One can also use the range table to infer the size of the weapon. Longer ranges should mean a longer barrel.

Hadn't thought of the range thing. while it doesn't work too well for grenade launchers and shotguns, may be useful for the other heavy weapons. As for the "Not concealable" that would prolly be what I would do as GM. My players havn't tried that on me yet though.

tangent
Something of note by the way as an oddity in the rules.

According to SR4A in the case that someone pats you down looking for weapons "...the searching character makes an Agility + Intuition test, and concealability modifiers only apply half their value (round down)."

This would mean its easier to hide larger weapons from physical searches than visual searches since their positive modifier would be cut in half (+6 for AR would become +3)...which is just silly.
/tangent

"Bob, see that guy over there with the rifle on his back? Go pat him down, see if you can find anything on him"
"Sure Boss *pats the guy down* Nope, cant find anything"
"... Bob, you can see the damn thing..."
"Oh right Boss"

For Smaller weapon: Concealable Holster,Lined Coat (or Mortimer Of London Ulysses Line), Palming Skill 4 and good Fake Permit
For Bigger Weapon: Improved Breakdown (Manual),Body Armor Bag,Lined Coat, Palming Skill 4 and innocent Face

Most sport rifles are more concealable than most assault rifles, primarily due to the design of the grip and clip. There is of course some bleed-over - an AK-47 (esp. with removed clip) is much closer to a sport rifle silhouette than an FN-SCAR for instance, and any rifle with a launcher attached is going to just be unhideable. In general though, you're going to have a better chance to hide a sport rifle under a long coat than an assault rifle. You probably don't want to walk with a long stride though, "more concealable" comparatively does not mean easily concealable.

exacta

And as you said, even if its more concealable than an AR, it's still not easily concealable. And dropping down from AR category to SMG just doesn't sit well with me.

While a dwarf/troll weapon is smaller/larger then the standard weapon that only covers the trigger mechanism and stock not the actual firing mechanism and barrel and with vehicle and cyber weapons you should always assume that the human weapon is installed (ie just the firing mechanism and barrel). As for conceal-ability, the actual modification doesn't actually modify the conceal-ability of the weapon (espcecially if it is carried by a dwarf/troll).

So as for my 2 pence for the OP, I'd have to agree with what Stingray said here for weapon mounts.
The only changes that I might add are:
the other grenade launchers to the list for Normal Weapon mounts on vehicles
the MGL-6 to cyberarms
grenade launchers put into AR category,excepting the GL-67 put into Not concealable and MGL-6 into MP category.

could get abused for weapon mounts though. GM discretion advised. Honestly, I don't see any reason why such items wouldn't physically fit given the other weapons that DO fit.

For bigger weapons reinforced mounts are needed..