This one is really old, but i think i remember a spell in SR 2 which could create matter out of mana. I only remember an example of a rose which was created. Did they lost it in earlier editions because it was too powerful (we are all abusing Powergamer, aren´t we) or would you allow to create such a spell in the new system, too?

I'm not remembering this spell you mention, and a quick glance at the old familiar places isn't ringing any bells. The closest I can find is the Create Food spell. Generally speaking, sorcery cannot create complex things. Transform, shape, alter, spark elemental effects, but that's about it.

I will have a look on the old books, the next time we play. Maybe i find it.

I seem to remember it as well, but it was taken out for pretty much the reasons you mentioned plus it also flew in the face of the limitations of Magic. So I say good ridanace, if you want to pull a rose from thin air, use an illusion instead.

Can´t pay the rent with illusionary gold.^^

seeing as there is a create food spell. my group allows certain things to be created with magic. in my game there are spells to create metal,stone,water,and to grow plants from seeds.

I i add your mentioned seeds with the picture of your avatar, i think i know what you are talking about.^^

No you can't, which is why you mindrape your landlord into thinking you paid rent.

Yeah, this works, too. I think i´m going to "influence" a rich guy, to transfer some serious money on my account.^^

Meh, not really worth the hassle for chump change and not worth the danger for the big scores.

Remember, the Create spell has a material cost, if you're creating gold the material cost is going to be greater than the value of gold you get out. ;P

That's the rule of alchemy: you can only create gold only by turning gold into less gold.

Ok, then i shoot him afterwards. I hope you are happy now, being responsible for this guy to lose his life...poor family *sob, sniff* Muahahahha...powergaming...cool.

And couple of days later, your simultaneously shot trough the head by four lonestar SWAT snipers.
Powergamers are so funny when they think that thair being clever.

Clever enough to prevent me from beeing debunked by stupid donut-eating beat cops. I´m a pro, man.

Huh? what is this, D&D? Since when do spells have material components?

I just browsed through my books on 4th edition... and.. no create spell? And no spell design entry under manipulation? STRANGE.

When i remember back, i had in 3rd edition a shintoist paper magician (Awesome character by the way), where i designed all my spells myself. And i know i was able to create paper by the cubic meter. It was a permanent spell, i think it created up to magic m³ stuff. But it had some drawback. The Material you created where conform. only mimicking the REAL deal. It was limited by the power of the spell (No hardness of diamonds or such) and even though i had limited it to only produce paper (which i could form and use with other spells) it had an insane drain code...

Let's make a spell:
Hm, in 4th edition i would say: Physical (+1), Area Spell (+2), Permanent(+2), Major change in environment (+2)... maybe even add an Elemental effect (for simulating properties of materials.. Metal, Sand, Wood.. and stuff)(+2). The draincode is Force/2+9 ... only +8 if you can produce a single material. Since there are no rules concerning maximum mass, i just make something up: Magic m³ since you want to be able to block ways and crush people with it, right? *g*. Maximum structure and armor rating is force, or produced material, whichever is lower. It will not pass ANY close up inspection to verify it authenticity.

So... yeah...

I thought you were trying to make gold so you could pay rent. If it doesn't stand up to inspection, it's not really gold, is it?

Also, I was being silly in my previous post.

Well, i didn't want to pay anything with that spell. But i don't think that producing real (and valuable) materials shouldn't and couldn't be possible. Part because of the nature of magic but of course also because it is pretty much gamebreaking. The only people creating real valuables are Free Spirits. (I always thought they can teleport a few bucks back from a metaplane)

Maybe you could let someone produce something with alchemy and karma. You know the good old lead to gold?

Also... if people don't really take a look at it, you CAN pay with the crap. You can make it shiny and heavy, i reckon.

Hm, and i forgot to somehow bind the successes into the spell.. maybe you can use that as threshold (maybe halved?) for identifying that it is not the real element(s)?

Hence my first post about turning gold into less gold.

Machiavelli nah, you can still get away with using mindrape for fun and profit, you just have to choose to either go BIG or stay small.

The easiest way is to simply use mindrape as a mugging tool "You want to give me your watch and jewels."

However if you are looking for the big payoffs then you need to think longterm, with the proper prep it is possible to mindrape someone so throughly that they will be your best friend for quite a while, then just make sure that you keep recasting and erasing the memories of your mindraping before your target remembers the truth. Then you become the power behind the throne and mooch for the rest of your life.

Of course something to remember is that the proper responce to rumors of your mindraping ability is for your team to give you several extra holes in your face.

LOL, Some one asked if this was D&D...Hate to break it to you man...Ye, Yes it is. We were sitting there playing and my 14 year old cousin came in and asked...'Are you guys playing D&D?' I asked , what made her think that and she said, And I quote this from the non-Tabletop gamer that she is, 'Well I heard you talking about orcs and elves and you were sneaking into some place to steal something?' We just looked at each other and laughed. Yes I guess we were playing D&D.

But on with the magic thing. I vaguely remember the spell...But no details. I don't like getting caught up on the details of things. My players know that once Character Gen is done then all bets are off and we do what the hell we want. But my players like sticking with things in the book. So oh well, no reaping the benifits of what I have to offer.

That would be the Mindfuck Mage. Only my original intent was to Dr. Sues every run in an attempt to mindfuck the players due to Alter Memories being cast on every PC after every run and making each run remember like a bad (good?) LSD trip.

I'm fully aware that after about 9 months of in-game time I'd be found out and geeked.

But it'd be the craziest 9 months ever.

I would say it´s worth the rist. But unfortunately, nobody who has that much money, is without the support of his own mages. So becoming his personal mage would be a little bit time-intense.^^

sure you can...just put an illusion over something else...like get a block of lead and cast an illusion on it to look like gold...gotta get creative here

Ah, but will your landlord take gold as payment?

Okayyyy....and how do i manage that is stays gold in his eyes? Keep the spell sustained endlessly or archor it with a lot of karma on the brick? No good solutions.

More importantly what happens when he realizes that you've given him lead instead of gold, surely you aren't going to sustain the illusion forever.

Thats exactly the point. The only way that comes to my mind, is the mindrape-trick and kill the bastard afterwards. First an illusion e.g. as an attractive woman, then you go with him on his room and after a little bit of midrape you put a poison or something similar in his drink while the hacker cancels all camera-informations and blocks his possible biomonitor.^^

Nah, you don't have to kill him, just keep mindraping him on a regular basis into thinking that you paid rent, it wouldn't work with the "good life", but as long as you are willnig to settle for a cheap apartment with flickering power it should work for quite awhile.

Staying long on the same business causes attraction. In 2070 you pay your bills online, and he has access to his account 24-hours a day. I think this trick will work for some hours, maybe days, but not over months. If i would know a rich person, i think i would make it a "single-shot"-mindrape and afterwards i either erase his mind (laes cigarette, memory can´t be restored, the corresponding spell sucks totally) or kill him (vanishes mysteriously after entering the ghoul area)^^.

Not too much that I actually disagree with with the exception that mindrapes can last months with the proper prep, and at Low Lifestyle I imagine that you still have the "personal touch" of seeing your landlord. Of course the landlord also probably tends to be willing to touch you with his baseball bat as well.

Or with this nasty little "street sweeper" shotgun^^

Yep, which is why it is better to simply pay your fragging rent ya'll cheap bum.

There used to be (and may still be) a free spirit power called "wealth" that basically permanently materialized valuable goods from nothing...

From what I recall the amount of material created was severely limited in value and that overall you were breaking even to making a small profit on average. In other words, nothing to write home about, but perhaps enough that after a few uses you could come up with that extra 1000 for that new toy.

Yeah, if it would be that easy, we wouldn´t run around in the night, eh?

Precisely.



Night? NIGHT? You aren't challenging yourself.

I play a SURGE III elven dark mage with big tits....i think night is a good solution.^^